The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Worth noting that, for Metsu, Odr/Lugra+1 is BiS set even outside of dusk-dawn AND no unity rank bonus (DA+3%). But it's very close to Odr/Ishvara. Obviously Lugra+1 trashes everything when it gets the dusk-dawn stats and DA+3%. This is my first priority for augmenting unity gear.

Time based conditional stats still irritate the hell out of me though. At least this earring, for now, is always good though. Would have been nice if they had similarly given AF+3 feet movement speed +12% during dawn-dusk. Would have been no improvement over Danzo during the day, but better from dusk-dawn so would have allowed NIN to just use one pair of movement speed gear at any time of day and save us from inventory+1.

For blade: Metsu, Why are things like gere ring or grunfeld belt outperforming other options with higher dex+ (like ilabrat ring/regal ring/artful belt+1)?

Multi attack

ftp doesn't transfer though, so are the gains really significant?

It simply depends on how much DEX and how much multi attack.

Generally speaking Metsu is 5+1 fTP and you will likely use around 40% WSD at least, so it will be more like 7+1, so 8.0


So for example if you take something like Windbuffet belt +1 that adds around 10% multi attack rate (2*3 + 2*2) per hand, you will get in avg around +0.2 fTP from it. that should on avg result in 2.5% increase (8.2 / 8.0)

Blade: Metsu is 80% Dex and you will have probably around 350 dex or more in your metsu set. Kikoku R15 is 156 dmg. So you are sitting at around ~436 base dmg. So you need around +4.5 base damage to rise WS damage by ~1% That means you need around 6DEX to boost WS by 1%. So you would need like 15 DEX to match avg gain from Windbuffet belt +1.

Simon I don't have a big enough brain to do what you did above and apply it to Nodowa +1/2 (max augs) vs Fotia for Shun. As far as I know people still use Fotia for Shun but was curious about the math.

Shun is actually much easier to decide in theory, but harder in practice.

Assuming you also using Fotia belt, Fotia gorget is 9% boost.
So Dex alone on +2 neck has no chance to compete, but if you cap attack with +2 neck than PDL +10% alongside DEX is better than Fotia.

So it's a matter of Fotia for uncapped attack and +2 neck for capped attack and Shun is particularly hard to estimate if you cap attack, because it has attack bonus scaling with TP. With Aeonic Katana you will have at least +50% attack bonus, but for sure more with TP overflow, so it's actually easier to be attack capped with it than you could initially think, even in mid buff scenario.

EDIT: Oh and +1 neck is also better for capped attack, but only by small margin.

What set/buffs are people using to get those silly high Blade: Chi numbers? Just messing with my GEO alt (900 skill) acumen/malaise, and the below set...I am not hitting as high as I thought I would.

ItemSet 371783

Andartia is STR/Acc/Atk/WSD, herc legs: MAB30/WSD2, Feet: STR/WSD.

Try with Frailty/Malaise instead ;-)
It's a Hybrid WS, not a Magical one.

Here’s some ideas for buffs and debuffs:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z_TuKX5519E

Could add threnody too.

As for your set, the only things popping out at me are WSD dmg ring, orpheus sash, reforged af boots +3.

That's always the problem with hybrids though, getting the right mix of buffs. You often have to deal with buffers choosing between primarily physical damage OR magical damage as a more practical consideration for the whole group. If you can force people to give you those specific buffs, cool. But good luck being the princess NIN who gets a somewhat awkward set of buffs tailored just to them, at the potential expense of other DDs.

That being said, it does happen occasionally - most notably in allaince content (Divergence) when you're in a pure melee party getting your melee buffs (BRD songs, Indi-Fury/Geo-Frailty, etc.), and you have a different party focusing more on magical damage like COR or RNG Leaden/Trueflight and including a GEO doing GEO-Malaise on the mob (which helps non-party alliance members like you!). But even then, it's often the case that during some parts of the Dyna run that won't be as viable (say, switching to different buffs/GEO debuffs for a T2 boss). You could potentially build an entire group around hybrids too: Jinpu SAMs, Chi NINs, Hot Shot RNGs, etc... but that's definitely niche.

So, it's nice to have the option and to have a hybrid WS set ready. When the stars align, it can be good. But in practice, most players will probably not find themselves in those specific scenarios super often.

You need alldabuffs to see nice blade chi numbers. So

Fighters
Chaos
Frailty*
Malaise*

It's really the multiple hit proc that gives those beefy numbers, but frailty and malaise are probably the two most important buffs to make it shine. You can also downgrade a little on the mab gear and put in some triple attack or WSD, like in the body/RING. Orpheus sash is bis also. Consider Herculean hands with mab/WSD also (comes with native 2% triple attack)

There's the rub... if you have a COR and magical damage is viable, why would they be rolling Fighter's/Chaos when buffing for their own Leadens would likely be better overall DPS? And when most jobs would prefer Samurai roll anyway to get greater WS frequency for everyone (unless your non-CORs are all hybrid WS users like Chi NIN, Jinpu SAM, etc.)

Other than a parlor trick to make a weird NIN WS give good numbers, I just don't find it super practical in a lot of situations.

But like I said in previous reply... does happen sometimes like alliance content if you're in melee party #1, but there's a GEO in one of the other parties doing Geo-Malaise (more likely due to buffing their own party for magical damage, but also helping you with your quirky hybrid WS).

I was just answering the guy's question...

Oh, I know. And I totally agree with you and think you gave good info!

My comment wasn't intended to refute anything you said, just to add the context that actually getting those buffs usually requires you to design a party buff strategy specifically with hybrid WS in mind - so it doesn't necessarily come up a lot in typical group situations. And even when you could do it, good chance it wouldn't be best overall buff approach for a group (e.g., if you have a COR anyway, often better to buff for all out magic WS than give up valuable rolls to help the hybrid WS user who's using something weaker than Leaden).

Also not that surprising that due to the awkward buffs needed to make it shine, people might try Chi and be a bit underwhelmed, despite using a good WS set.

Nice...

Not really sure what you mean by that, but to be clear: I'm not saying Fighter's/Chaos is never a good set of rolls (though Samurai tends to be preferable as one of your two rolls in any melee party with 1 COR). I'm saying that in any situation where hybrid WS are good, pure magical WS are also generally very good. And if you HAVE a COR, you have a job with arguably the best magical WS damage in the game. So why buff the Ninja to pump up Blade: Ei? Buff with that COR in mind instead, to pump up Leaden/WF and provide more benefit to the party as a whole instead of just letting the NIN look good on a parse.

But hey, if someone has a roll only COR that is in the party only to serve the NIN's whims... cool?

I thought your language usage was stellar.

Thanks! And sorry I couldn't quite comprehend what you were going for ;)

True enough, but in general Frailty and Malaise should be the largest improvements, compared to all the possible buffs you can get.
Uhm, talking with Idris in mind here but, likely, even with just Dunna.

Anybody tested Odr Earring for NIN?
Other than niches like Evisceration with Tauret, what do you use it for?

Could be nice for Blade: Hi, despite not having AGI it has DEX and Crit+5%, both should contribute to Hi's damage.

What about Shun? One slot is taken for Moonshade, but in the other slot I was using Mache+1. It's basically DEX+2 vs DA+2
Despite Shun having an 80% DEX mod on a nunch I'd say DA+2 should win, since Shun transfers TP across hits, multiattack procs included.

Again on Blade: Hi.
Supposing data on BG-wiki is on point, then 250 TP bonus from Moonshade should give Blade: Hi approximately ~1,25% crit rate bonus.

From this point of view then Odr Earring should provide a bigger damage boost.
All of this supposing you're not already above 100% crit rate but, outside of Abyssea, that shouldn't happen I think?


Not sure, someone might want to test it on a spreadsheet, mine is just a hunch.

Given the "recent" Jishnu's testing in the RNG thread, I would imagine that the results for Hi will be near identical.... Ishvara and Odr should be the new best combo.

This one is easy. Lugra+1 R15. DEX+8 DA+1~3% during the day, DEX+16 DA+1~3% at night.
Pairing that with a Lugra or a Mache+1 over the Moonshade should also be better overall. (at least when you're getting attack buffs or there's frailty anyways.)
Mache+1 definitely winds up being better than Odr for Shun.

Lugra+1 is a clear winner, no questioning, but that will have to wait until scales are cheaper, if ever. I'm not able to keep up with 60mils per upgrade with all the stuff I'd want to level up :-P

They are under 40M atm for R15 upgrades (from 60+m last week), with 180+ stacks on AH. Given how many scales people are able to pump out per run (getting higher each day), the supply is just absurd. People are going to (already are) get tired of waiting so long for their stuff to sell, you'll see some undercutting happening very soon. Especially since April has absolutely no updates to Odyssey/gear, more people will have higher supply then. 15-20M for an upgrade is probably what you're going to see when the dust settles, which IMO is very affordable considering slot comparisons.

I have well over 600 scales just from casually playing the content and learning/failing several runs on a solo character. None of the gear is overwhelming great atm (its just new), so a price tank within the next month is obvious.

Yeah, I've been using Odr for Hi since acquiring it (with Ishvara), tested it and it's best.

It's also a pretty nice TP piece for high acc and/or crit focused sets (e.g., some Empy sets with a bit more white damage focus).

Slightly disagree. But that's also mostly from having insane troll logic.

• Lustreless are equivalent to Air/Eschalixers.

• Sheol A covers 119~122 UCNMs.

• We're gonna get more Sheol paths (e.g. B/C/D/etc), and more augments. (also gear, but that's not probably relevant unless it too uses scales for augments.)

• Like half the UCNM list is 125.

I suspect that we'll see with Sheol B and the CL125 augments, the introduction of "Medilustreous Scales" or some such. (Equivalent to the -lixer +1s)

Then the "Lustreful Scales" with the 128~145 stuff. (Equivalent to the -lixer +2s)

Though if by some chance that it's all lustreless all the time, supply is gonna tank the price to something more comparable to ~8~9x the price of a NQ eschalixer price for a stack.
Though it'll probably be a year at most or so for that if no +1/2 equivalent scales... depending on how many boxes you get from the B/C/D/etc RoEs.

You're being optimistical!
15m, while not cheap, would be something I could spend money on for multiple items.
I need a few. Lugra+1 on top, but probably Sailfi+1, Metamorph+1 and Gelatinous+1 as well.
Oh Assiduity+1 as well, maybe Unmoving+1, not sure.

Also need to make up my mind on Augury Cuisses and Zoar Subligar.

I highly doubt that in next Sheol paths we will get more valuable scales to upgrade 119-122 gear. Most likely you will get new scales that only works for higher tier Unity items and wont work for 119-122 at all.

I have almost 4 items from that list at R15 from self farming only :P