The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

isn't Souleater like 10% damage increase depending on HP absorbed,
It does help damage, and when I am on RUN I'm not dying lol, so no worries of being killed by Gorger so why not.

In group content, Souleater is suicide without a doubt, but I haven't died using it when soloing so I don't consider it a high level threat if he absorbs it when solo

Souleater adds 10% of you hp to damage on DRK main. On /DRK it takes 10% and adds 5% to damage. But I think you are confused here.

Lets say you are at 3000HP and you hit a mob as RUN/DRK. You lose 300HP and flat 150 damage is added on top of your melee damage. So instead of hitting it for like 1000, you hit it for 1150.

Now if you for example do 3 hit Dimidiation that would normally do like 10000 damage, you will lose 900 HP to boost you Dimidiation to 10450 damage.

Souleater for damage was good in 2007 when you was hitting normal hits for 200 damage and WSs for 1000 and souleater was adding 100-200 damage per swing (thats why using it with KC was so OP). Now when you hit for thousands and WS for tens of thousands 100-200 more damage per swing is nothing, while losing HP still hurts.

I get what you mean tbh, but I use it cos I'm severely under attack cap, anything helps. + When I'm solo, I won't die which is why I use it.

I attack for like 400-600 in Omen without Last Resort. Dimidiation at 1k varies between 8k-14k

You just said you got hit for 8000 with 75%PDT. AFAIK even with battuta you wont have 100% parry rate, especially during WS? If one hit get through, you are dead (that includes Gorger's multihit TP move). You called it "risk" in the first place, so if you are sure you won't die, where is the risk? It just looks like you are being stubborn on defending yourself after being caught on not knowing what Souleater actually does. It's ok to be wrong you know? When I'm wrong, I acknowledge it and move on.

There is a thing called timing Weaponskills. No risk of dying if i'm smart about when I weaponskill, I'm not like some people and spam.

And that 8000 Crit was in group content when we were buffed through our teeth, capped attack, haste, everything and then Souleater was added.

Battuta does not give you 100% parry rate even wirh every parry enhancement and assuming cap from skill. Risking getting oneshot from Souleater is a huge risk with almost no benefit.

Doesnt matter man. I think you still don't understand how Souleater works. When NM with so much HP uses it, then the added effect from souleater is huge as *** and it's a flat damage not affected by pdif, so it doesn't matter if your def was low and it's attack was huge in group event, because from that 8000 crit probably something like 7000 came just from souleater. Even with 5000 def on your RUN and every attack down you can throw at Gorger, if it hits you with souleater up while having lots of HP still, then you will evaporate, because that added ~7000 damage is static.

Changing gears slightly: is /DRK even a useful option for ninja main anymore? You only lose a small bit of double attack in the grander scheme vs /WAR for another tier of pdl+. Anybody use it for DPS or tanking over warrior sub? (Yes rune support for tank)

I can't imagine it's a common situation on anything that remotely matters that you'll be consistently capping pDIF on NIN to even take advantage of the one extra tier of pdl+ from /DRK. With all the pdl+ we already have between NIN's own tier I pdl+ trait, JSE neck, and Malignance gear... yeah, not seeing that subjob being worth it. Not compared to /WAR's DA+10% that always helps, even if for some reason you do manage to cap pDIF (count me a skeptic that you will, though).

For tanking, also not worth it. /DRK in the old 75cap days was about enmity generation with stun, and Yonin and Utsusemi alone is plenty for enmity on anything you'll tank on NIN - especially if you use a Su4/Su5 mainhand (which, if you really care about tanking, is worth it for the Utsu/Miga recast reduction alone... plus it's huge for enmity). Then you have to deal with no native MP pool on /DRK (also kinda annoying for attempting NIN/BLU).

Poisonga as an AoE hate grabbing tool (which can be nice on RUN/DRK) is also kind of contradictory to the whole point of NIN blink tanking, since when you're grabbing multiple mobs you're gonna just get shadows shredded. Can't really see people ever wanting to hold more than 2-3 mobs max on NIN (even then, tanking more than 1 isn't really a good idea on anything serious), and for that number you're fine to grab hate with a few quick Ninjutsu casts and/or a provoke, then retain it with Yonin/Utsu.

I tend to almost always prefer /WAR for tanking since (a) you can easily flip back to offense on a moment's notice, and (b) in pure tank situations you have the flexibility to turtle up and pop Defender. And hey, Voke isn't all that, but it's helpful. /RUN is really my only other occasional choice, for niche situations where you really care only about defending against a specific element.

Have any Nin Successfully soloed Odin on N? If so can you share your thoughts? thanks

I upgraded Mochizuki hatsuburi to +3 before the patch today. Ran to reisen run some tests but realized I didn't add the item to gear sets.

I did //gs export several times and gearswap is kicking out:
head={ name="Mochi. Hatsuburi +3", augments={'Increases elem. ninjutsu III damage',}}

But the text in game still reads: Enhances Yonin and Innin...

Can someone explain this to a drunk? thanks.

Increases elem. ninjutsu III damage is the old augment pre update a few patches ago. Gearswap export gets that kind of human readable info from a Windower file named extdata.lua. I haven't gone in and edited it in a bit for a few reasons. It should still equip it just fine though.

Aw, thanks!
I had hope. Alas...

I'm lazy, don't wanna do all my tests on the spreadsheet.
Which WSs do you people use Neck+2 on, in general?
Assuming capped acc.

was actually wondering this myself as well as malig gear, assuming capped atk via shun's bonus, would ti be better to use that set over typical ken and the like? Dex is fairly high on most pieces sides the legs, but you lose lots of TA going that route

Fotia on Shun/Ku, Baetyl on hybrid, JSE+2 on everything else.

You use JSE+2 on Ten? :-O
I can see it being nice on Hi I guess, but Ten?

DEX+15 on a 30%STR/30%DEX single hit WS is already pretty good. It's not as if we have some other far better STR or STR/DEX option; DEX+15 compares well to Caro's STR+6/DEX+6. Plus, Acc+25 on the JSE neck doesn't hurt.

(a) If you CAN take advantage of PDL+10% thanks to strong buffs or low defense mob, Nodowa+2 utterly demolishes the other options. No brainer selection.

(b) If you are getting nothing out of PDL+10% (weak buffs and/or very high defense mob), Caro or Fotia might win but the margin will be very small. And in those cases, Ten tends to be bad anyway and you should probably be using Shun instead for damage.

Huge win in (a), effectively sidegrade territory in (b) where you probably don't want to use Ten anyway... easy call for me to use +2 in my Ten set and call it a day. I didn't start using it until I got to rank 18~20ish on my +2 though, not sure exactly where the tipping point is.

OP sets also show Nodowa +2 for Ten; I didn't make those but I don't disagree with the selection, and some cursory messing with a spreadsheet seems to back that up.

op ignores both accuracy and attack for every set

I used Rancor Collar for Blade: Hi, but I think with Dex+15 and Agi+15 (plus all the other stats like Acc etc) that the +2 neck is likely gonna be better than the Rancor's Crit+5%, correct?

...not like Blade: Hi is particularly relevant for a non-kannagi user like me, but I like to keep my sets updated just in case.

Yeah, for Hi it's JSE (even NQ) > Rancor by a considerable amount, even when uncapped. And obviously even stronger if taking advantage of PDL+.

Not nearly as relevant for non-Kannagi though, as you said, other than for SC purposes.

In the MNK thread someone asked if NIN has now taken the throne of worst DD of FFXI, given that MNK is now pretty good.
To be fair MNK started being good before the last patch (WS adjustment), what made MNK good again is the 99% accuracy cap change, which in turn indirectly made Impetus an incredibly powerful JA. The WS adjustment only made things better of course but it started before that.

So, what can we say about NIN?
There are plenty of smart ways SE could "fix" SE, just like MNK, but they decided to not go that route but, in the end, they "fixed" MNK regardless.
So I wonder, is there any way they could fix NIN? Some change that would create indirect consequences making NIN better, similar to how the 99% acc patch made a huge difference for MNK?


I think we can all agree NIN, while perfectly viable, is the worst DD of the bunch atm.
Can SE do anything fast/quick to make NIN better?

Removing the position requirement from Innin/Yonin could make NIN's niche (dealing damage with good defense and low enmity) even more useful, in an environment where it's hard to always stay behind the monster.
You would gain a small boost in white damage through the pretty big crit bonus and you would also get a pretty high accuracy boost, making NIN one of the best jobs in terms of accuracy (which could be good for future content, for instance).

Anything else? NIN's WS were never as bad as MNK pre-patch, but they're pretty bad if you ask me.
Not sure what they could do though.
Raise Shun's FTP slightly? Just a bit would be more than enough given the FTP transfer.



On a side note: Blade: Metsu is already very nice with R15 Kikoku. If they're gonna adjust ALL relic WS like Fujito mentioned they are gonna do, I wonder if this would in turn make Blade: Metsu so good that Kikoku will become the best NIN weapon?

Also, part of me still wishes they're gonna wake up and swap the Feet and Head relic augments Q_Q

Really? Pretty sure they were worse lol.
AFAIK Raging Fists was always stronger than Ten at high TP (I was hitting 40k+ RF at Omen bosses and I don't think Nin can do that with Ten) and Vsmite during Impetus easily destroyed any NIN WS. Final Heaven is at similar power as Metsu.

Was that before or after the patch where they increased all H2H base damage?
Because I feel that patch had an impact on the final damage.

At 3k Blade: Ten is single hit + OH hit (99% + 95% acc cap) for ~16.5 FTP
Raging Fists was 5 hit (95% acc cap) for ~13 FTP?
Both WS have the same 30% STR/DEX mods.
Also PDL (traits) didn't exist back then if I recall, MNK has 2 more tiers than NIN atm, that's like ~6% higher att cap?

Now yes, NIN WS are behind if you ask me.
Metsu is "nice" but bound behind a weapon that is currently not the best for pure DPS in group content.
Shun can be nice and hase nice SC properties but it's max damage potential isn't exactely great.
Blade: Ten is the best WS for pure damage, but it's not exactely OP and has ugly SC properties.
Blade: Ku is, I suppose okaysh with Gokotai? Pretty meh otherwise.
Blade: Hi is not really worth it, just mandatory to activate AM for Kannagi users (which isn't the best weapon for DPS anyway)
The other WSs are pretty meh.

The only way for NIN to do decent WS damage is having both Frailty and Malaise down and abuse of the hybrid WSs, those can spike quite high with those (de)buffs.

So in general while NIN WS could certainly use a small buffs, I'd say there are other factors at play here, not simply the WS properties themselves.


Yes and Final Heaven with R15 Spharai was considered "decent" to spam at 1000 TP before the last WS adjustments, right?
Which is still the same situation as Metsu.
It's okaysh to spam at 1000 TP with Kikoku.
If Metsu gets noticeably better than it currently is, it might change the tier list of weapons, I wonder?

Raging was 9 ftp on main hit at 3k iirc so 13ftp total

Think you're absolutely right, think it was around 13,5 actually.

Far as NIN goes, yeah its been in a bad spot for awhile, for similar reasoning to mnk, katana WS are just not that great, cept nin doesnt have the higher white dmg mnk can pump out unless they run kannagi(i think?), still dont understand why they made shun an atk varies WS instead of just giving it an atk boost like every other WS, dont think theres any other ws like that and it ends up limiting how high that can go though i guess with more pdl gear that raised it a bit.

Even if Kannagi's AM can proc on multihit MH procs (unlike Monk's) I doubt its white damage gets anywhere close to MNK.

NIN also has ~20% Crit Rate when they can make use of Innin (WHEN?!) and a shitton of Accuracy and also Enmity -50ish which is quite nice.
Also NIN probably is the second best after MNK when it comes to low TP feeding?
It has many other unique peculiarities. Migawari, strong Utsusemi, Yurin (those few times it sticks lol), Aisha, some RDM-1 debuffs.

I doubt it could be said NIN brings any great benefit/utility to the party though.

Doesn't have a WS/JA that reduces Defense on the target.
Yurin is simply too unreliable on stuff that matters.
No AoE buff.
No personal job-specific DPS cooldowns (ehr... Sange in theory, I guess).


What does NIN bring?
A DPS with low TP and enmity generation who can transform into a decent tank (doesn't WAR or DNC do the same?), has a pretty high survivability rate and can cap attack delay without any sort of buffs, if need be? (again, think DNC can do that too)

If they don't wanna give NIN new cool things or fix the ones available, they should at least give a small bump to damage.
A WSD trait similar to DRG? Increase base damage of weapons?
New ilevel shurikens with HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE stats on them?
Remove positional requirement and/or decay over time of Innin/Yonin?
Raise mods/ftp of some WS?
Any of these things or a combination of them could be enough if you ask me, but will we ever get anything at all? Heh.


Making Shun's att bonus fixed (1,5? Whatever) and make so the FTP scales with TP would be soooo nice. Would make Shun really really good.
Don't see that happening but wishful thinking hey! <3

For now, only Chi can made some nice number (hit 84k in dyna jeuno yesterday) but other ws can't reach other DD ws numbers...