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Ragnarok WAR TP sets - Optimal
Serveur: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Terminus 2012-08-16 14:26:08
Serveur: Fenrir
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Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2012-08-16 14:29:15
although that is how her and her circle jerk want to spin it. Sorry but you two have been arguing alone for 3 pages, there's no "circle".
^ Circle. It takes two to tango. Auster matched me post for post.
And you're reply to Seha doesn't make sense. At first, you're talking about people who believe Austar, as if they would just be supportive regardless. Seha pointed out that it's pretty much just the two of you. Then you're trying to make it out like a circlejerk is what was going on between the two of you. Sure hope what you said about Ragnarok made more sense than this.
Serveur: Fenrir
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Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-08-16 14:38:33
Ragnarok.Returner said: »if I am reading it correctly, I think he mean he would prefer a 6 hit that rely heavily on connecting all hits on WSs instead of building for something that is like a true X hit. Yep.
ITT: You dont need to be miss tolerant on a 5 hit WS.
If thats not HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE level ***idk what is. I don't think I've ever come across a capped-hitrate situation for any x-hit job where building around the possibility of more than one miss generated an increase in DPS. I'm not seeing the issue here given WAR's high DA rate. If anything, I'm more curious about the lack of AF3+2 hands in either set.
This should have been the end of the thread.
7hit Rag, max hit rate, profit. This.
To be clear the argument was about being at least one miss tolerant, and about the exact odds of missing 1/5 on Resolution. In both cases Auster was wrong. Neither of our sets are optimal (I even said so in the same post I posted it), and the argument was never about that, although that is how her and her circle jerk want to spin it. Nightfyre said: I'm not seeing the issue here given WAR's high DA rate. Don't twist my words by taking them out of context. It is possible that building for one miss is advisable here, but the gains would be extremely marginal. I did not make an absolute statement specific to this particular discussion, only a general observation from my experience working with builds on various 2hand jobs.
PS: You're still wrong about the odds of missing 1/5 hits being the significant value for discussion. You can't make up for the first hit missing, you can make up for any other hit missing.
Bismarck.Stani
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By Bismarck.Stani 2012-08-16 14:40:02
Blocked Austar's avatar, quality of life improving.
Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2012-08-16 18:25:58
Blocked Austar's avatar, quality of life improving. I'm not sure why I never thought to do this until now <3
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Serveur: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-08-16 21:23:23
No, I'm not. It doesnt matter which hit you miss. The odds are still 23% to miss 1/5 with 95% ACC. You're pointing out the obvious, and now youre taking me out of context. The discussion was about miss tolerance with regards to x-hit. It's not out of context, you're just trying too hard. First hit missing breaks your x-hit 5% of the time, unavoidably. Any other hit missing does not have to break your x-hit and the probability of such an occurrence is not as simple as you have tried to assert due to multiattacks. The calculation you're performing is not accurate for the purposes of your argument.
Serveur: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-08-16 21:29:22
If I was trying too hard, I'd have over 9,000 posts. lol
Quote: Youre trying too hard to defend someone You keep saying that, but I'm not sure why. Disagreeing with one party does not automatically mean I'm defending the other.
Quote: You can make up an "extra" hit. You cant make up the first hit. We get it, although we didnt need you to tell us that. Then why are you including it in your calculations? Why aren't you calculating the realistic probability of your x-hit breaking?
Serveur: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-08-16 21:31:00
Oh ***, the postcount argument!
Serveur: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-08-16 21:34:23
1-((100-5)/100)^4 = ~19%
1 in 5 Resolutions WILL miss an "extra" hit, breaking your build.
Happy? No, because it's still not accurate. Better though, you get a cookie.
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Serveur: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-08-16 21:35:23
as promised
Serveur: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-08-16 21:36:31
Ok, throw a DA in there and were back to 5 hits. How often?
Serveur: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-08-16 21:44:14
If grip varies based on this discussion, feel free to pick which you use.
Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-08-17 12:28:44
With the set Nightfyre posted, you're looking at 30% DA. So 51% of my attacks will have at least 1 multi hit, 42% will be one, and 9% will be two.
(.95^1)*(.95^0)*(.95^4)*(.05^0)*1)= 77.38% at all 5 hits landing. 77.38% * .49 = 37.92% of my WS will be 5 hits with no misses.
(.95^1)*(.95^0)*(.95^3)*(.05^1)*4 = 16.29%, 7.98% chance no DA and 4 hits will land.
Now if I go down the list doing all of this for every outcome it ends up being:
37.92% no DA and all 5 hits
7.98% no DA and 4 hits
.63% no DA and 3 hits
.02% no DA and 2 hits
infinitely small chance at no DA and 1 hit
2% chance MH misses, no DA, and 4 hits
.42% chance MH misses, no DA, and 3 hits
.03% chance MH misses, no DA, and 2 hits
almost 0 chance at no DA and 1 hit.
30.88% chance at one DA and 6 hits
8.12% chance at one DA and 5 hits
.86% chance at one DA and 4 hits
.04% chance at one DA and 3 hits
and again, almost no chance at anything less.
1.62% chance MH misses and one DA for 5 hits
.42% chance MH misses and one DA for 4
.04% chance MH misses and one DA for 3
again, odds of anything less are far too low.
6.29% chance x2 DA and all 7 hit
1.98% x2 DA and 6 hit
.26% x2 DA and 5 hit
.02% x2 and 4 hit
.33% MH misses, x2 DA and 6 hit
.1% MH miss and x2 DA, 5 hit
.01% MH miss, x2 DA, 4 hit
So you're basically gearing for something that happens less than 10% of the time, since any misses besides just one, or a MH miss is going to screw it all up anyways. Whereas I'm gearing for 85+% of the time.
Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-08-17 13:26:16
Prove me wrong then.
And no, that's 30%
3 grip, 5 earring, 2 hands, 3 back, 2 legs. = 15. 15 from trait+merit = 30.
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Cerberus.Taint
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By Cerberus.Taint 2012-08-17 13:27:23
First of all you are terrible at math, and you should just stop.
Second, Nightfyre's set has 25% DA.
Before calling someone out of their math you re-add the double attack in Nightfyre's build.
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Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-08-17 13:28:46
WAR doesn't have DA2 for starters, and second 10+5 from merits = 15.
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Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-08-17 13:30:58
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Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-08-17 13:31:05
It is. The DA2 trait was on the test server pre 99 cap, and they removed it when they nerfed Blood Rage.
Cerberus.Taint
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By Cerberus.Taint 2012-08-17 13:33:23
Bg wiki must be wrong then.
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Warrior
DAII never got added, was on the test server hence the big ? next to it on the DA page.
I've been looking around and wondering if there is really a set worth 6hitting ragnarok with outside of VW. It seems that you give up too many stats and are better off going with 7hitting it?
Just wondering if any of the math people have math'd it out and determined what is optimal.
True 6hit
VW 6hit with Save TP 20 , regain 3, tpbonus atmacites
Zerg set (accounting for embrava/sam roll i'd guess)
seems like a lot of variables and nonsense to deal with :(
this seems to be the most a warrior could really get without being too crazy, but still seems a bit too much loss to me.
+51 TP total (armada has +6stp), with rag needing 37 average across all hits on /sam.
I tried searching all the relevant posts under war forums and none seemed to really address the issue...only thing i could find stated that better of 7hitting (this was before phorcys gear tho).
Looking for some math to back up what optimal sets are for above-mentioned scenarios.
Weaponskill would be this (+2 feet with MS obviously. grip depends on math):
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