Bravura WAR

Pretty sure the majority of us in the discussion realize the -DT from MT doesn't bypass the hard cap, therefore yes, it's obvious that if you do have a near-cap -DT set it isn't as useful. However, the whole game is essentially a series of working towards relatively small additions & improvements each of which, by themselves, are not as meaningful as the whole. People will drop millions in gil & put in months of work for a percentile difference to one thing or another.

I would say in non-high/optimal situations the evasion down & defense down procs likely are more noticeably beneficial. I understand you're saying they may not proc as much as we all would like, and that there are limitations on when they even can; I'm just saying I'll happily take those effects when they do proc.

I don't know how to be any clearer about this: you do not build around evasion down procs. You can cap your hit-rate against almost everything in this game without outside assistance. That means in order for it to be useful, you're choosing to have your accuracy suffer anytime it isn't up. Those (very) few things that you cannot cap against, you need madrigals, rolls, or what have you to make up for it. One of these scenarios renders evasion down literally useless, and the other -if it even lands- only stands to take advantage of it minimally, because you'll already have accuracy buffs galore.

I'm not even sure what point you were trying to make in the first paragraph. Sure, if you're incapable of putting together a PDT/MDT set(and yet somehow capable of building a relic weapon), then I'm sure Bravura is just ducky.

BECAUSE METATRON TORMENT IS SO GOOD

METATRON TORMENT IS SO GOOD

TORMENT IS SO GOOD

huehuehueuheuehuehuehueuheuheuheue my bravura is as sexy as me

I don't understand why you're focusing so much on the concept of someone using a Bravura meaning that they are building around evasion down procs.

Is that not half of your argument on behalf of the weapon's usefulness?

I think you're overstating a little. Also, what I meant by non-high/optimal as far as gear setup wasn't in the case where someone is actively gearing to take into account a benefit which may or may not activate. I meant in the case where the player has not yet obtained their optimal setup. I fully understand that the evasion down is a very, very small bonus, nothing more.

That comment wasn't meant to be saying that others don't need to focus on their equipment setup as much if Bravura is present. It's not a silver bullet.

I still don't understand your argument. Capping your accuracy is not an intensive process. There shouldn't be some extensive waiting period involved with making yourself suitable for most targets in this game.

By saying you don't need to focus on gear as much because a bravura is in the ally is basically saying you're always going to have the evasion down from it.

Okay then. You're welcome to your opinion. Obviously nothing anyone says anywhere here will change your mind so, carry on.

To the OP, I would strongly recommend unlocking and capping Upheaval to maximize your output using a Bravura. Torment is, sadly, a stopgap method at most. You will generally want to be using Upheaval for your main damage output WS's and switch into your -DT set and use MT when you do pull hate. As I mentioned, I wouldn't try to advertise it as any sort of a silver bullet against eating floor, but I firmly believe the two combined sources of -DT will help you stay upright long enough for --hopefully-- a cure to land.

Go back and actually read what I wrote in my response, please. I did not say that.

You cannot seriously attempt to reason that clutch use of MT and half of a DT- set is in any way safer than just.. using a whole DT- set.

How can you read that aloud and think it makes any sense?


And this is absolutely untrue. I change my mind quite regularly, you're just not making any valid points.

sorry I did misread that last part, but it's still nothing to rely on even if your gear isn't optimal. proper buffs/food usually cover lack of acc in gear

To use your phrase, I also don't know how to be any clearer about this: I am not advocating the use of MT + half a -DT set and saying "Okay! Now I'm done." The full -DT set is obviously better because you can access that any time it's needed.

What I am saying is that people don't always get the gear they would like as fast as they would like. Again, to your statement about none of my points being valid, you are welcome to your opinion.

So you're saying that it's simpler and more timely to build a Bravura than it is to build a DT- set?

No, I'm not. Look, the OP asked some questions about ways to optimize use of a Bravura, therefore I kind of thought he was planning ahead on building one or already owned one and wanted advice on that. I don't recall him asking anything along the lines of "How does a Bravura compare in usage to an Ukonvasara?" Unless I misunderstand, you've been making statements to the effect that there is no reasonable use for the weapon anywhere. When a couple of us tried to give some examples, again all you'll say is that you don't see them as a reasonable argument.

Examples that I've managed to disassemble, only for the person to get defensive, flail around for a bit, and then give up before telling me to "get back on topic".

If you don't like having your assertions refuted, make better ones.

:/

Was interested in the topic. Peaked in to all this hate!!

Again, you're mistaking your opinion here for an irrefutable fact, that's all. As I said earlier, carry on.

I'm not sure I understand the long face(s). The OP was answered, and now something else is being discussed(albeit fairly poorly by several contributors).

Heh,I'm still interested in the topic! I agree that there isn't much discussion out there about trying to optimize performance when the Bravura is the topic. I was hoping for some useful input.

Opinions can be wrong.

If for whatever reason you're using a Bravura, Upheaval is the optimal WS choice.

Thread answered.

I dont see why it still has to go back and forth, everyone can give their opinions, u can like it or not, if you dont and cant provide backup of reasoning, then let it go? Its just a bicker at this point even if the answer was given.

So tell him to support his assertion or stop posting? I'm sure you're aware that I'm perfectly comfortable providing reasonable support for anything I say on this forum.

Whether you're allowed to admit it or not, you know he's not actually contributing anything to this discussion. He's just using the heart of the cards to prove that his unsupported opinion is just as valid as my supported one, which it's not.

This is the bit I honestly don't understand. I've been trying to give input, as a Bravura owner. You don't see any use for the additional effects of the weapon, I say I disagree with your stated opinion and do see uses for them.

I'm not in any way advocating gearing to a lower standard and depending on those effects, in any situation. I've tried to explain my rationale on each comment you questioned. I fail to see how any of this equates to not contributing.

And I've explained exactly why your grounds for disagreement are invalid.

-It's much cheaper and much more timely to build appropriate accuracy and DT- builds than it is to build a Bravura

-The defense down from Metatron Torment is highly resistible, and fairly negligible when juxtaposed to what's being given up for its use

Unless you're prepared to refute ether of these points, stop dragging this on.

The only real use I could see from the DT is being able to melee in haste gear or some other supporting defensive gear, but trying to think of a situation where that could come into use really doesn't come into mind at the moment.

Would have been better if the DT was in a seperate category, but take what you can get i guess, the pros would be it has high base damage and a nice chunk of accuracy on it.

Edit @ Minjo: I agree that it is cheaper and more time appropriate to create accuracy and DT builds, but if you already had the weapon from the 75 cap days, or just made it cause you love war then that would be a "valid" ground for disagreement.