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The Beast Within -- A Guide to Blue Mage
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 474
By Asura.Dexprozius 2023-12-06 08:30:14
Well ~250 MP per cast is not too bad eh!
Dexprozius did you notice how often those two spells were landing, if you noticed it at all?
And from what you and Simon said I guess it's not even worth trying to cast them if Frazzle 3 falls of, right?
Honestly its been some months since my attempts with this setup. I'm just going off recollection and the AzureSet I had saved.
I saw the burn wear off a few times so it landed, at least some of the time, but I'd say its probably best for both DPS efficiency and your sanity to attempt it only under frazzle. That way when frazzle lands you guys can go for a big push, probably coordinate a skillchain with your lobby TP and burst as well.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 474
By Asura.Dexprozius 2023-12-06 08:34:02
250-40, so only 210MP gained. I would assume you will maybe have 70% cooldown reduction, so every 54 sec. For sure useful, but it's not infinity MP like in most other scenarios :)
Yep, but certainly worth weaving into your casts when off cooldown as much as possible just to maintain stable MP. At most of the times your casting Earth or Tomb and your MP just sinks without a little help from Refresh 3, some decent AutoRefresh gear in your idle set, and the hammers. This is another reason I started to learn towards Diffusion MG instead of Memento Mori, the haste gets you more hammers even though the MG is expensive at the front of it.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 463
By Shiva.Cerderic 2023-12-13 14:58:53
Can someone explain to me a world in which I would ever use a full MAB or STR/atk set for BLU spells? The additional effects from spells is almost always the only reason why you'd ever cast a spell, whether that's Sweeping Gouge or Entomb. I've always geared my physical spells, (primarily sudden lunge) with whatever gives me the most combined accuracy & magic accuracy (DEX and INT accounted for) and my nuke spells spells with whatever provides the most macc > MAB.
Even in the case of using Thrashing assault for a skillchain, I care far more about the physical accuracy than the damage and ignore STR and Atk entirely when gearing.
Am I missing something?
Ragnarok.Creaucent
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Ragnarok.Creaucent 2023-12-13 15:08:08
Can someone explain to me a world in which I would ever use a full MAB or STR/atk set for BLU spells? The additional effects from spells is almost always the only reason why you'd ever cast a spell, whether that's Sweeping Gouge or Entomb. I've always geared my physical spells, (primarily sudden lunge) with whatever gives me the most combined accuracy & magic accuracy (DEX and INT accounted for) and my nuke spells spells with whatever provides the most macc > MAB.
Even in the case of using Thrashing assault for a skillchain, I care far more about the physical accuracy than the damage and ignore STR and Atk entirely when gearing.
Am I missing something?
Dont know if this is a troll or not.
Assuming you are serious, pretty obvious you would want to gear for MAB when you are cleaving with spells like Entomb, Tenebral or Specral etc. MACC vs MAB your new empy+3 set is your best nuking and macc set all in one.
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Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 463
By Shiva.Cerderic 2023-12-13 15:34:41
Ragnarok.Creaucent said: »cleaving with spells like Entomb, Tenebral or Specral etc. Sorry I don't mean that there is no time that I'd ever prefer damage over the added effect but it would be incredibly rare. Other than that one floor on Vagary that you nuke everything I can't even think of a time I'd prefer squeezing out more damage per spell than making sure freeze, def down, or petrify lands.
Ragnarok.Creaucent
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Ragnarok.Creaucent 2023-12-13 15:49:34
Ragnarok.Creaucent said: »cleaving with spells like Entomb, Tenebral or Specral etc. Sorry I don't mean that there is no time that I'd ever prefer damage over the added effect but it would be incredibly rare. Other than that one floor on Vagary that you nuke everything I can't even think of a time I'd prefer squeezing out more damage per spell than making sure freeze, def down, or petrify lands.
Dyna D, Omen, Vagary, Merit points, CP.
But as i said before EMPY+3 is MAB and MACC so why not use it?
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 474
By Asura.Dexprozius 2023-12-13 18:05:43
Ragnarok.Creaucent said: »cleaving with spells like Entomb, Tenebral or Specral etc. Sorry I don't mean that there is no time that I'd ever prefer damage over the added effect but it would be incredibly rare. Other than that one floor on Vagary that you nuke everything I can't even think of a time I'd prefer squeezing out more damage per spell than making sure freeze, def down, or petrify lands.
As Creaucent said... you don't need to make a compromise due to how powerful the Empy+3 set is... but presuming you don't have that set and you're making a choice for Macc or MAB, lets put it this way.
Would you prefer to do 10,000 damage aoe with 3 seconds of Terror, or 30,000+ damage with a 2 second terror? In most cases when you're cleaving, you want to deal as much damage as possible to clear your pull efficiently. In my experience Entomb lasts a set amount of time, so I don't really concern myself with the Macc, however with Entomb I do have a toggle to stack full SIRD for events where I need it to go off.
You'd be correct that most physical and magical spells are more important to stack Macc and Acc to land them And their additional effects... however there are plenty of Nukes both physical and magical that you'd stack attributes for damage. In your example, Thrashing Assault, as well as Sinker Drill and the like I'd say you should always go for damage. You're only really casting those spells when you intend to do a self skillchain... while albeit rare, is for the purpose of damage.
By Nariont 2023-12-13 18:16:59
Late but emp+2/3 covers most of your spell needs, good stats, strong acc/atk, high macc, some of the best MAB, biggest thing youd need to swap in is accessories or for phys specifically AF feet for CA(i think?)
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 463
By Shiva.Cerderic 2023-12-13 23:04:47
I mean using something like this for Entomb.
ItemSet 393914
Instead of this.
ItemSet 393913
The damage difference doesn't seem significant enough to risk having an enemy resist or partially resist the petrify effect. Maybe I'm over estimating the risk, but the only times where gear optimization at this point is going to matter is when I'm casting for the petrify and not the damage. At least 90% of the time I cast Entomb I wouldn't care if it did 1 damage or 10k, I'm casting it pull more stuff in ody or pause ***that doesn't sleep.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 474
By Asura.Dexprozius 2023-12-13 23:16:02
I put my maxentius away after Odyssey RP. Sakpata's sword is the nice middle ground between Maxentius and Tizona for nuking.
I do think you're being too careful, but specifically for Enntomb if you were to simply swap the AF hat for Empy hat and keep the 'accuracy' accessories, you'd be fine at little compromise. As I said earlier Entomb isn't often a spell your using for damage anyway, although it can do great damage. If you're not fighting Ongo or another Earth specific weak mob, then sure go for the petrify stick, however if you're taking your accuracy arguement for effects like Tenebral Crush or Spectral Floe then I 100% disagree and you should be stacking damage all the way.
Side note: For damage on Entomb specifically, you'd use Quanpur Necklace
Edit... I want to be clear I didnt store maxentius, its still godly for black halos, but it no longer is ever used for nuking
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 463
By Shiva.Cerderic 2023-12-13 23:28:55
I think that's a good call. I still get resists on Demisang THF and RDM pretty regularly so I might test out using the more Macc focused set. I'll have to grab one of those necklaces since soloing Ongo is still on my list.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2677
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-12-14 00:29:10
Demisang RDM likely have Resist Petrify trait, since RDM have that. No amount of Macc in the game will help you with this.
By Shichishito 2023-12-14 09:26:37
You could build your default sets with max DMG in mind and also make a single MACC focused one. Depending on when you want max DMG or a higher chance of additional effects landing you could toggle between them.
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Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 463
By Shiva.Cerderic 2023-12-14 09:55:34
My toggle is currently normal/SIRD but I could add another. I'm probably more likely to just swap between variables in my lua manually because I'm already keeping track of a lot of toggles lol
By Nariont 2023-12-14 10:00:12
I put SIRD on its own toggle personally, since the pieces didnt change much, magic was just normal and macc
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 137
By Asura.Chendar 2023-12-14 12:46:25
I tend to keep SIRD as a separate toggle too, since it can be useful for all spells not just the nukes/magic dmg ones. For those just normal/acc is probably plenty now, used to have a "safe" or DT one too, but that's hardly necessary now with empy +3.
As for your sets specifically Cerderic, I assume you have AF+3 hat in there for the set bonus with regal earring? But wouldn't swapping to empy+3 and something like Digni. or Crep. earring be both more MAB and Macc?
EDIT: Looks like pretty much the same macc I guess, with a few points of INT/MND lost. Guess this was pretty much what Dexprozius mentioned too :P
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 463
By Shiva.Cerderic 2023-12-14 12:52:24
I did some quick math to throw these sets together, so given the empy set effect, with all +3 I'm probably better off using the full set and ditch the set effect from AF. Currently I actually use AF legs+3 (not head) because my empy legs are still +2.
By Nariont 2023-12-14 17:57:34
if you account for the skill the legs even at +2 basically cover the macc given from the 3 piece set bonus, along with better dmg/DT, +3 its an easy win, can keep the head and earring and take the +15 boost there.
As said though, kinda overkill, opted to go full macc on spells that are only debuffs, ie dream flower, roar etc
By wick 2023-12-22 06:04:03
If I have set total 24 DW points on blu with various spells. Does that put me at tier V DW as a master blue?
Ragnarok.Creaucent
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Ragnarok.Creaucent 2023-12-22 06:52:53
If I have set total 24 DW points on blu with various spells. Does that put me at tier V DW as a master blue?
Yes you then need 1 DW in gear.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 474
By Asura.Dexprozius 2023-12-23 01:53:44
If I have set total 24 DW points on blu with various spells. Does that put me at tier V DW as a master blue?
But why tho....
By wick 2023-12-23 01:58:43
Trying to see how much Dual wield i need to equip with combination of set spells and sub job?
What's your setup for straight DD?
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 474
By Asura.Dexprozius 2023-12-23 02:39:55
To avoid typing out a long winded answer, let me direct you to this thread where I dumped alot of dual wield/gear related info for someone else recently.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57570/blue-mage-solo-skillchain-set#3684299
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-12-23 02:43:26
Quote: When it comes to Dual Wield, a lot of people believe that the more the merrier and you should shove it in everywhere it can fit. In some situations, that's actually quite true, but in many, it's completely wrong. Keep in mind that Dual Wield lowers your TP/hit in addition to the beneficial effect of lowering your attack delay; this is because base TP/hit is derived from your weapon's delay, and dual wield imposes a modifier onto that delay, lowering it and thus also lowering your base TP/hit.
Delay reduction caps at -80% of base delay, taking into account weapon delay, dual wield, and Haste. As soon as you hit that delay reduction cap, you can't attack any faster, however dual wield will continue lowering your base delay and, in turn, your base TP/hit. That's why it is absolutely imperative to understand the breakpoints for delay reduction and how to determine when you have enough dual wield.
So, let's actually calculate our delay.
In order to properly calculate delay, you'll need to know the values of your sources of haste and dual wield. Keep in mind that the percentage values are approximate since XI works on a fractional system, but the percentages are all that the average person will need.
Magic Haste - Caps at 43.75%
Types of Magic Haste - Victory March (~9-17%), Advancing March (~7-14%), Refueling (10%), Erratic Flutter (30%), Haste (15%), Haste II (30%), Embrava (up to 25%), Indi/Geo Haste(29.9%~40.9%), Mighty Guard (15%)
Job Ability Haste - Caps at 25%
Types of Job Ability Haste - Haste Samba (5% from sub, 10% from merited Haste Samba from a main DNC), Hasso (10%, two handed only), Desperate Blows (25% with 5/5 merits, two handed only)
Gear Haste - Caps at 25% (256/1024 to be precise, meaning you need 26% from gear to fully cap)
Delay Calculation Formula
So, now that we know the types and values of haste in the game, let's figure out our delay.
Let's look at a situation in which we have zero magical haste, capped gear haste, and Dual Wield 5 trait without any DW on gear.
256/1024 + 35% Dual Wield. Those are our values right now.
With our Dual Wield value, we subtract the % of dual wield from 1. This looks like (1-.35), which leaves us with .65.
For our gear haste, we take the value we have and subtract it from 1024. This looks like 1024-256, which gives us 768.
We then take those two values and multiply them together. This looks like 768 x .65, which gives us 499.2. However, because of SE's flooring during calculations, this is floored to 499, essentially just dropping the decimal.
Divide this new value by 1024. So, 499/1024 = 0.487, or 48.7% delay remaining, with a delay reduction of 51.3%. This means that, in order to cap delay reduction, we need to reduce an additional 28.7%.
Let’s try a new example. This time, we have Erratic Flutter (30% magical haste), capped gear haste, Dual Wield 5 and 10% additional DW from gear.
Now we have 256/1024 + 300/1024 + 45% DW
(1-.45) = .55
1024 – 256 – 300 = 468
468 x .55 = 257.4 (Floors to 257)
257/1024 = .251, or 25.1% delay remaining, with 74.9% delay reduction.
When it comes to delay reduction, you want to get as close to capping as you can without going over and without sacrificing large amounts of beneficial stats.
With Erratic Flutter, Mighty Guard, capped gear haste, and Dual Wield III (i.e., a standard 1200JP BLU), you need 11% extra dual wield from gear. Typically this means using Suppanomimi and either Adhemar Jacket +1 or Shetal Stone, or Eabani Earring and Reiki Yotai in a more defensive set. You can also take an extra tier of dual wield via Molting Plumage in place of the jacket/stone for little to no appreciable difference in delay.
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By wick 2023-12-23 15:37:30
I know all about DW and haste. It was just a confirmation about how traits work. Prothescar, your guide is great and i understood everything about DW and haste but I got confused with you saying you need 8 points each Tier job trait, then you mentioned that 4 points in DW would get DW Trait 3. So once I got my head around that it was fine. Also what's wrong with DW5 trait and not needed any DW gear equipped?
By Nariont 2023-12-23 15:52:59
but I got confused with you saying you need 8 points each Tier job trait, then you mentioned that 4 points in DW would get DW Trait 3
Every DW spell (except plumage) gives 4 trait points
Delta thrust- 2 set points 4 trait points
Barbed Crescent- 2 set points 4 trait points
1200 Gift bonus means +2 to (most) set traits
Thus; 4 set points to get DW 3
Also what's wrong with DW5 trait and not needed any DW gear equipped?
Because it costs too damn much to get to it, lets assume you already got the trait gifts, so you only need DW3 technically, that's 5/20 spell slots minimum, and 17/80 set points, that's a lot of lost potential in other traits, utility spells, etc, for something that is really just a non issue since it's pretty painless to get the DW needed in gear.
There's also the fact that there's no good piece of gear that gives 1 DW, most usually giving something like +5, so now you're 4 DW over and taking a slight dip to TP/hit
EDIT: Derp'd on the no DW needed part, disregard that bit
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Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 474
By Asura.Dexprozius 2023-12-27 17:46:43
somewhat related, i'm questioning setting triple attack with tizona and malignance. 5% TA is still probably the most dps increase, but i wouldn't mind freeing up those 12 points for some more utility spells. i think it made more sense when we were tping in adhemar and herc than it does now when survivability is more easily attainable. thoughts?
Even with Tizona, I'm definitely not always in AM3. In content with gaps like Sortie sometimes its just not managable to keep AM3 up for each fight, so I think it's still very nice to have TA for those scenarios, and not just getting the initial 3k tp. Not sure what Utility you're missing? It's likely a compromise you can make somewhere else, but as with everything; "it depends". Try it out and see how much you miss it and enjoy the utility.
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By Nariont 2023-12-27 17:48:23
Just depends on the utility mentioned, like you said it's still an increase since its the same as an attacks thrice on mythic, but if the utility spells are more helpful, taking a small DPS hit isnt going to make/break anything
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