How Do You Feel About Windower?

"wah wah windower is bad"

go away. nothing you can say is going to convince anyone to not use it and its fully safe anyway so no one cares if it IS against the ToS.

***if the people who bot HNMS dont get caught, why would someone who uses windower get caught... unless they shout it in game like 4,000 times. and windower definitely isnt some unfair ***like botting.

All you've done is use nothing but profanity and insults this entire thread. This post is a prime example of it.

Two things will happen with this thread:

1.)Locked, end of discussion.
2.)Moved to Flame Core, a much more appropriate forum, and it will slowly die as no one can see it in the active threads anymore.

<.<.....>.>...

I say SE / FFXI Programmers should just hire the windower team. They have creativity, then smiles for all! ^_^

(Yeah I know, that would never happen. It's not a perfect world.)

I used to use Windower, but only windower lite because back then SE didnt make FFXI windowed, and the one they built in sucks. Only reason I dont use it now is because for some strange reason its a b*tch to run on Windows Vista, but Vista fails anyway... ;-;'

Okay, I'm done.

i will speak as i please, ALRIGHT?!

just because i like to use profane language, that doesnt mean anything. which i know you are probably inferring im a moron or something.
which i am. lol im just kidding.

Also, i would love to see this thread locked considering theres already like 3 like it in the past or something.

SO MODS! post something awesome.... pwn all the haters, and lock it.

Theres ways around that as a programmer you should know that but I'll show you the closest it gets
i) Use of any cheat codes or cheat devices
but wait in gaming what does that actually constitute? From wiki
Cheating in video games involves a player of a video game creating an advantage beyond the bounds of normal gameplay, usually to make the game easier.

Sounds suspiciously like ffxiah and windower to me which of course was the whole point of telling you to look it up.

great quote from wiki there, been rying to get the point across but ppl continue licking *** about other issues.

even if you take it as cheating from that HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE definition of cheating,......... then i dont care that i cheat. im sure no one does.

i dont think its crossing the line.
thats drawn at botting for me.

go ask a gm about it...you will most likely get a warning... if you dont it means SE hates me :(

That’s the wonderful thing about open interpretation, one person reads the same thing, another person reads it, and they both come out of it with two different perspectives of the same sentence. That’s the reason why we’re all arguing. To make your quote an example, I define “Cheat Codes” as that, codes you input to cheat, and “Cheat Devices” as being Windower, Devices being the keyword. FFXIAH falls into neither of those.

lol... Whatever it takes for you to sleep at night, Luignata.

But you still have yet to grasp the fact that FFXIAH is more to it than the HTML web page interface you are viewing right now. There is behind the scenes mechanics that are actively browsing the FFXI Auction Houses and scraping that data to display here. This is just the pretty front end to this 3rd party tool. Both the webpage and this behind the scenes 3rd party app are as one and thereby a cheat device.

hey there, my first posts like 3h ago were nice, took a little break and then find all thees peeps going under eachothers skins, jus thought id give my 2 cents in the same manner.

Are you a SE employee? No? Then your definition of cheat codes don't mean ***.

I know lets just make 20 GM calls asking about both post the screenshots and compare them!!!

And tbh... The whole 'this is how something goes against the ToS' part of the topic really is a moot point. What it comes down to is people that condemn Windower as evil and against the ToS, but use FFXIAH.com daily when both use essentially the same methods of collecting data. Heck, tbh... FFXIAH is MORE invasive than Windower because the only information that Windower can display is info being sent to the client and it isn't accessing the server directly.

Quite frankly I don't care. Windower hardly provides anything besides the blinking targeting thing that has any real effect on the gameplay. Whoop de do.. i can see when i can cast a spell again. Thats all freely accessible ingame. It's simply for those that want everything on an easier interface. I would love it if SE would provide a customizable counters window.

Point is. Use it or not, it hardly creates much of an advantage.

Idk Celest to actually see how much time you have left on all the buffs you have casted is a pretty nice advantage. Certainly when you are soloing stoof =P thats just one of the advantages it can provide.

Likewise.

So why are we having this argument? SE can do whatever the hell they please, they don't care about arguing it. So why are we?

Yes but what i'm saying is the advantage is incredibly minimal. Seeing something go down to recast it or just guessing after 60 levels on a job is more than likely good enough. Let's be honest, this is nitpicking. Also honestly, how does this hurt you? Does another player being able to see its buffs or whatever the crap it does really hurt you at all? I don't use windower but the way I see it, if i'm in a party with someone who uses it... does this hurt me or benefit me.

Golly gee, I think it benefits me.

Illegal. :P

If you want to be techniqual I'm not. Just pointing out that this is effectively the same thing as windower. Weither or not they are not allowed is up to the individual GM of the day.

Precisely. So I guess this makes the past... 9 pages worth of arguing all invalid and incorrect. Everything is illegal as far as SE is concerned, and they can do whatever the hell they want.

So...

Anyone read any good books lately?

porn.

What it all comes down to is whatever SE says, SE gets. If SE says you are to be banned for 'such-and-such' reason, then they make it so, and there's no way to argue your way out of it. Case in point, those who got banned for the dupe when they were just going along with the rest of their linkshell members. The fact is, SE cannot prove someone is using a third party tool unless they are using plug-ins to alter the play of the game to create an observable unfair advantage. I.E., enhanced movement speed, etc.

Also, SE knows that a large percentage of their players are PC based. Also, they know the benefit those PC players get from Windower. AND, i guarantee they know that most of PC users use the Windower. The fact is, if they ever developed a tool to detect innocent third-party software like the basic windower, they would never use it to ban those PC users in violation. Because, players = dollars. Remove a large chunk of your player base just because they are using a third party tool is like shooting yourself in the foot. It's bad business. The most they can do to show their distaste for the software is through their ToS.

As much as SE hates the fact players use Windower, they will do nothing about it unless the ratio of non-Windower-users vs. Windower-users flip-flops. And honestly, I don't foresee this happening unless they stop supporting FFXI on PC. And, we all know, that will never happen.

So you're saying Windower is the way to go? I like the idea of seen everything real time, what are the cons?

So long as you don't go blabbing to a GM, none.

Otherwise the con is a banned account.

Personally I think alot of the plugins look rediculously tacky. Take the timestamp for example. Not to mention its human nature to focus on something so the part of the screen that has the recast timers will more often be ignore for anything but that while a monster might be coming up on you. Also if you ask a GM about you using it you'll probably be *** slapped