How Do You Feel About Windower?

They're not hax... But, it definitely takes a lot of skill to go through the game with only 3. =D

NO HAX YOU CHEAT!!!

*** that, some people may enjoy the challenge of doing the same thing 30 times until they luck out and complete it; me, I wanna get the ***done and move on with my life lol

It wasnt luck skillz. The later ones made it harder cause itd record number of times you fallen in battle and I didn't like get numbers on that so I'd reset if I died without fairy in a bottle. Really not to hard once you get used to the battle system.
More importantly it makes me better then j00 cause you HAXOR!!!

Almost everyone in this thread said it gives a slight advantage. Windower simplifies a few processes in the same way a calculator does for math. In math class did you complain to the teacher about the students who were 'cheating' cause they were using a calculator?



Actually, you said it right here:



Your ignorance makes me laugh Luig. Do you really think that some of the RDM's that do use windower don't already have the necessary skill and gear to solo those NMs without it? Seriously? If you honestly think that, you're a moron.

Lets say for instance that a certain RDM has solo'd countless NMs (whichever are deemed difficult for a RDM to solo), and never used windower. One day they decide to try it and they enjoy using it just to simplify a few things. Does that mean this person has now lost the ability to solo anything without it? No, it doesn't. You can't just assume everyone who uses it can't do anything without it, that's just HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.

1. Learn to judge distance though in solo being right at max distances generally doesnt make as big a difference in endgame group stuff.
2. /recast "Utsesmi: Ni" learn it love it.
3.Shadow counter...counting to 2... when you have no other person to focus on... yeah HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
4.Buff timers... simple recast when they go down. Or now with the advent of composure recast all of them right then and there and none will ever go down.

Honestly, I think this thread has hit its all time high.

I think Jaerik needs to lock this up, bury it, and hope that we don't have to re-live it.

I know I wasted probably a few 5 minute intervals of my life posting on here... LULZ....

He'd have to pour cement over the grave just in case it became a zombie.
Just don't leave it with its spoon...

the fact is, windower simply creates certain necessities that (due to SE's incompetence) were failed to be included into the game. distance, Tparty, recast, more macro spaces are all necessities. otherwise, players would spend a lot more time finding the perfect distance to /RA or cast spells, players would have 3 more blocks for each type of gearswap (completely unnecessary), people would have to spam a /p "TP READY" macro every time they were at 100%+, and players would obviously *** up more with recasts, spamming the spell button to find out when it's ready. and if it is ready, it'd be casted. what if you didn't want to cast utsusemi: Ni when you have 2 ichi shadows up already?

does it give an advantage? yes. is it cheating? no. it takes basic information that should be readily available to any PC receiving information from the POL server, and displays it in a coherent, easy to locate manner. CHEATING is altering game information, IE POS hacking. this is altering nothing, but simply displaying information in a better way than SE can comprehend.

anyone who denies the FFXI UI is shitty is a *** liar.

edit2: anyone who posts in this thread against windower**, btw, is obviously X360/PS2 butthurt.

i bet you guys complained when PS2 got RE4 with bonus material, while you were playing the original on GC. even then though, the PC version was released first before the PS2 in NA.

lol windower for rdm soloing isnt a must....avesta, one of the best rdms out there is a console player.

it IS in the game, you moron.

allies' TP is in the game. recast times are in the game. this information is sent to each and every player. whether you can or cannot use this information to your own benefit should not cause you to become a butthurt *** who needs to come on the boards and rage people about how they use it.

whatever information that is sent to a PC, is within the PC owner's rights to view (NOT ALTER). therein lies the border. which is why POS hacking, which is actual hacking (because i need to explain this to you, because you obviously cannot tell the difference) is and should be against the TOS. that is the altering of server-side information, an area which you cannot and should not have control over.

HOLY $%%%
Lets this thread die.
"Windower can get to a warning or banned depending on how the gm is feeling"
All the people who use windower and cant live without it will call people stupid for saying its bad.
END THREAD

gawd i just took a real quick glance since when i left off, someone made fun of me wearing jets? is this now a e-gear-penis competition? of course dont bother checking my other gear and omitting stuff your drooling about while pointing out the cheap stuff haha.

On another note, this conversation has been going a lot back and forth. Ppl are manipulating others opinions to make em sound like they want. Here is a few things i think we all agree and disagree so far.

1. Using windower gives players an advantage over those who dont use it.
1.1 This said advantage is debatable from job to job, notably the facilitation for RDMs to solo as they get more time to focus on staying alive than worrying about switching macro pallets fast to hit the right macros and checking timers (by macro or manually), including many more things.

2. Using windower *does not* mean you cant play your job just as good as someone that doesnt use it but you still decide to make your life easier.

2.1 This is debatable as some ppl truly suck at their jobs and having windower plugins does help em win, simple but stupid example is a NIN that for some reason just seems to not be able to count shadows and cast them at the right time (im sure you have seen a ton). With a windower this unskilled player can get that NM your looking for and kill it while your eating dust on the bench. Jealousy? no, simply pointing out something annoying.

2.1.1 Ok so what if hes using it, he can finally enjoy the game with it. Yeah but matter of fact is that you just cant help other honest players being annoyed by it (lifes a *** to sum it up)

3. You arent really seen as an idiot if you are using windower for small stuff, but you still get thumbs down if your taking advantage of it to gain an upper hand over someone else.

3.1 Due to the fact that windower is not accessible to all.
3.2 You are playing the game in a way that it was not designed.

i think im droping this thread now as far as my opinions on it go, iv said enough.

Thats true in general for the company, and most GM's don't care about windower either. I did however get an official warning and threatened with perma-banning for an ascii code smiley because retard GM thinks I "had to have an illegal windower program to do that"

º-º

alt 0186. Retard GM. And a friend was put in mordion by the same GM for using ™ .. So my point is, GM's are people to and just like on forums, their opinions on windower very. This GM wouldn't know windower if it came with a neon sign but he's the a-typical "windower is cheating" crusading forum tard.

GDI i went out of my way to look up and make random post on several threads just to bury this one....

Huzzah! I'm back.

Looks like there's a couple interesting posts I could debate (read: argue) about, but it seems that we're getting nowhere real fast.

So far the only thing I see being said is Windower people trying to justify their cheating, and trying to pin me down as cheater too. (Which I already admitted that 1% of the "virgins" in the game are better then me) So I admitted to cheating, why can't everyone else admit to it too? I cheat a little, you cheat a lot, plain and simple.

*PM's Admins to ask them to lock thread*

OK, I've read this whole thread, and there's still something I'm just not getting...

How is Windower a 'cheating' device if it only take data that is already readily available to the player and re-formats it to be more easily accessible?

If SE came out with an update that made FFXI play exactly the same way as Windower (albeit gimped like auto-sort), would Windower users still be 'cheating' if they preferred Windower?

If so, how is this different from IE vs Firefox, or example?

Sure it is against the ToS, but SE isn't gonna lay down the banhammer because if they did, they'd lose money. Money is the only reason FFXI is still alive. Frankly, if Windower keeps so many PC players happy and feeding the pockets of SE CEOS, I say, more power to the windower! Let's keep FFXI alive!

It comes down to the definition of cheating which is generally something like an unfair advantage created by something outside the game. Some of windowers plugins or mods can do that definitely. But in and of itself windower isnt unfair unless you wanna claim running alot better unfair since SE windowed mode fails hard

What is cheating?

If you are going after SE, yes, then its cheating. Any Third Party Tool combined with FFXI is considered cheating - says SE.

Then again, if you are going after common Moral Standarts, I wouldnt say using a tool like windower is cheating or insidious, nor would anyone else.

Nor would anyone else? Ever since when did you speak on behalf of everyone in the game? It is cheating, everyone in this threads agrees with that. The only thing that we don't agree upon is if the cheating is justified or not.

I think the problem is that SE let it go for far too long. If they did a mass-banning of all windower users they would lose SOOOOO much money. The amount of people banned for the Salvage dupe would be nothing compared to the amount of people that use windower.

Thats right.

Is it justified? Using windower is like using grip so you can get a better hold of those glibberish dice (called FFXI).

Manipulating those "la place" dice (e.g. in weight) is another thing though, dont equate them - yes, and thats cheating.

One day SE will catch on (We all know how slow they are) and will plug up all the leaks that Windower exploits to get it's info from. Then Windower will be rendered useless, and they didn't have to ban anyone.

Until that day comes, enjoy your Windower.

SE knows about windower they even said it in an interview. As far as plugging the leaks, windower and most of its scripts and plugins use memlocks and simple keyboard commands to execute their tasks so SE would have a really hard time stopping windower completely. Every update the memlocks change (for things like .dat swappers) so people just change the memlocks on the program. Windower cannot be completely done away with by no means and 1) SE realizes this 2) SE realizes that over 90% of their player base uses it 3) SE would go under if they banned all windower users {Which btw they would have to ban users of this site too since they were programmed by pretty much the same people}. I love windower. Being able to swtich between it and AIM, explorer,xfire easily is amazing. Also, the ingame graphics are smoother >.>

Oh I’m sure it’s possible to prevent Windower, the question is it financially practical to spend the time and resources to stop Windower. Neither of us could answer that question though, as we know nothing regarding the source code for FFXI. I pray one day SE comes to it’s senses and starts it’s crusade to block Windower.

It's kinda like how SE keeps putting Piracy Protection on their DS games so they don't work on Flash Cards. A few days after they come out, patches and codes are made to bypass it so the game works as normal. I can see the same thing happening if SE starts blocking windower and/or some of it's plugins.

I pray someday the community comes to it senses and demands the company improve the games UI. Most of us can agree the games UI is crappy, but people don't demand change they just use windower or accept what it.

Some action is better then no action. RMT will never be done away with, but it doesn't mean we should let RMT run rampart.

At the very least it will annoy some players to the point where they get tired of downloading a patch every 2 months to work with the FFXI update.

Luignata I'm sorry dude but I have to say it is goody goody people like you that are pissing on the good of FFXI. You are a wannabe elitist with nothing better to do than rain on everyone's parade. SE knows about windower, they do NOTHING about windower unless another third party program is accompanying it (finalfisher,teletaxi,mrargus,fleebunny). Seeing as how you dont use windower, you wouldnt know exactly what it does so you have no right to say it does or does not do something. It is SE's place to determine if we should be banned or not, not yours. So quit QQing about all these people being better than you and doing crap that you cant. Windower doesnt make a player better or help that player be better in anyway. All it does is 1) Make the graphics smoother 2) imput simple keyboard commands that a person can do anyway. Does it give an advantage? If you want to look at it that way, yes but so does this site =) Is it unfair? Not at all because it isnt altering any of the ingame mechanics or doing anything a normal person could not do otherwise.