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How do you feel about Windower?
Ragnarok.Anye
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5449
By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-05-13 17:34:21
Jaerik said: Luignata said: And with that said… let’s talk about a different subject. People who use windower are less skilled then those without, obvious reasons, Windower with all their plugins, gives an advantage over those that don’t.
Discuss! I would argue that if your definition of "skill" is whether or not someone can count to 3 in their heads without the assistance of an on-screen counter, it might be time to find a new hobby. Win!
Garuda.Ishkur
Serveur: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 130
By Garuda.Ishkur 2009-05-13 17:46:33
Jaerik said: Windower is illegal under the Terms of Service. FFXIAH.com is illegal under the Terms of Service. So is Allakhazam, so is Killing Ifrit, so is using any site, tool, or program not written by SquareEnix that decompiles, references, or in any way republishes any of SquareEnix's intellectual copyright, including any and all item, character, or mission data. Even posting screenshots is against the Terms of Service, unless taken via the in-game screenshot feature which watermarks SE's copyright over the top. Writing any fan fiction, derivative works, roleplaying, etc, is all against the Terms of Service. Letting any other player log into your account, ever, for any reason, is a violation of the Terms of Service.
I could go on. The point is, every single one of you, everyone, is or has violated the ToS at some point. Not a single one of you, especially none of you posting on this site, has any right whatsoever to accuse any other user of "breaking the rules." Period.
The only thing that matters is money. SquareEnix reserves the right to ban you for a ToS violation, but they are not required to, and they won't waste their time (or money) enforcing it unless it makes business sense to do so. In other words, the only thing that matters is if a particular 3rd party utility is causing more people to quit the game than continue playing it. It is the duty of 3rd party developers, and users of 3rd party tools alike, to not make SE lose money.
FFXIAH.com doesn't make SE lose money. Allakhazam doesn't make SE lose money. And neither did Windower, until enough of you started bitching enough to force SE to do something about it. So your desperate Appeal to Authority on this matter is inherently circular.
That's it. That's your entire pretentious, vaunted claim to morality in an online game. "Is the continued use of this utility making SquareEnix lose money?" If it isn't, and you continue to play the game anyway, then whatever tortured logic you use to personally determine what is "cheating" and what is not is completely and utterly nullified. Nobody cares, and neither does SE. Go whine somewhere else. I don't remember ppl whining, all I read or posted, in my case, it's that it gives an advantage, over console players. We were not discussing the morality on that. That's up to each and everyone of us. On most cases it doesn't disturb other players that certain player is using windower. On certain cases if the person misused this great software you've created, then it might SE lose money. Seeing a RDM solo a NM they could not solo w/o windower can be a pain in the ***. Just to clarify this is a simple example, becuase we cannot prove this as was stated before in this same thread, but it serves it's purpose. On the other hand SE motivates the use of community sites like Allakazham (or else why would they post them in pol.com)... And sites like FFXIAH.com I'd say make SE money. It's a lot nicer to play a game which has all online prices v/s one that doesn't (this of course it isn't determinant to wether one plays or not, but sure it makes it easier). So you've added something to SE, congratulations =). But yet again this site doesn't give a horrible advantage over certain players like SOME windower PLUG INs. I know it's up to each person which plug in to use and how to use it, but there is the enabling an action, which COULD be considered inmoral, not my opinion but might be some elses, I believe ppl should know better than that. Well what I wanted to say and got a bit derailed (sowwy), is that we are not judging this software. We are saying it gives advatages period. (sorry for the "." redundancy <.<;;;). that's beyond saying wether it's moral or inmoral. That is a judgement over arbritrary paradigms of justice. Evaluating the game being easier, or evualiting outperformance can actually be measured. Not the case but we don't need to measure anything. It's on plain sight EDIT: sorry for all the typos and grammar errors, english isn't my mother language, learned in school after I learned german.
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 222
By Gilgamesh.Deathsshadow 2009-05-13 17:57:20
Only Thing that i disagree about windower is the fact that u hav a slight advantage over consoles users xD
Fenrir.Alijah
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 264
By Fenrir.Alijah 2009-05-13 18:03:44
[+]
Lakshmi.Galvaya
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1489
By Lakshmi.Galvaya 2009-05-13 18:22:01
I think, that SE intentionally turns a blind eye to the windower. I believe, that a lot of the components, like TP viewing, and MP viewing through alliances, would be something they'd probably like to add, but because of limited space on PS2 they're unable to.
SE can't just up and create add-ons for PC and Xbox, but leave Ps2 behind. I think that they let Windower add the things, they'd like to but technically can't. You can't tell me that SE devolpers+Programers are unaware of the windower.
Trust me, they 100% know all about it. And do very little, except say "You don't talk about it, we won't talk about it."
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 222
By Gilgamesh.Deathsshadow 2009-05-13 18:23:36
Galvaya said: I think, that SE intentionally turns a blind eye to the windower. I believe, that a lot of the components, like TP viewing, and MP viewing through alliances, would be something they'd probably like to add, but because of limited space on PS2 they're unable to.
SE can't just up and create add-ons for PC and Xbox, but leave Ps2 behind. I think that they let Windower add the things, they'd like to but technically can't. You can't tell me that SE devolpers+Programers are unaware of the windower.
Trust me, they 100% know all about it. And do very little, except say "You don't talk about it, we won't talk about it." yea i've been thinkin bout takin this account to pc soon xD
Windower isn't about cheating or any of that other non-sense. It's just providing what SE couldn't do correctly in gaming ease. Since when should a game become such a pain just to find simple info? This isn't Ninja Gaiden...lol Yeah, you can make a macro, but if having it on the screen easily displayed is such a WoW move maybe FFXI should take some tips.
"OH you think that's hard?! I'm just the tutorial level! That's the next level over there!"
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 222
By Gilgamesh.Deathsshadow 2009-05-13 18:37:18
Shirai said: Windower isn't about cheating or any of that other non-sense. It's just providing what SE couldn't do correctly in gaming ease. Since when should a game become such a pain just to find simple info? This isn't Ninja Gaiden...lol Yeah, you can make a macro, but if having it on the screen easily displayed is such a WoW move maybe FFXI should take some tips.
"OH you think that's hard?! I'm just the tutorial level! That's the next level over there!" I like the sound of that /copy /paste Send to SE lol
Ramuh.Dasva
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-05-13 18:42:51
Galvaya said: I think, that SE intentionally turns a blind eye to the windower. I believe, that a lot of the components, like TP viewing, and MP viewing through alliances, would be something they'd probably like to add, but because of limited space on PS2 they're unable to.
SE can't just up and create add-ons for PC and Xbox, but leave Ps2 behind. I think that they let Windower add the things, they'd like to but technically can't. You can't tell me that SE devolpers+Programers are unaware of the windower.
Trust me, they 100% know all about it. And do very little, except say "You don't talk about it, we won't talk about it." Or just steal widowers ideas and make them there own for "there" updates. I'm looking at you autosort
Odin.Dizzi
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 41
By Odin.Dizzi 2009-05-13 19:06:37
Dasva said: Or just steal widowers ideas and make them there own for "there" updates. I'm looking at you autosort I have hardly ever seen SE copying any "invention" found by users or other MMORPGs. Though, I would appreciate to see WoW's barber in Vanadiel anytime soon! While there's life, there's hope...
Ramuh.Dasva
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-05-13 19:10:00
Dizzi said: Dasva said: Or just steal widowers ideas and make them there own for "there" updates. I'm looking at you autosort I have hardly ever seen SE copying any "invention" found by users or other MMORPGs. Though, I would appreciate to see WoW's barber in Vanadiel anytime soon! While there's life, there's hope... Here I'll bold it for you and I said stealing windowers ideas
Yeah. lol FFXI has came a long way as to what it was, say...5 years back. Keep in mind this was rated #4 on the list of hardest games. I think with Level Sync it's became easier in the sense of no more 3 day waits on PT invites on smaller population servers. They ARE improving. But the small things always make the big picture look just a bit ugly in that area. My only thoughts is use what makes the game more fun to play, not unfair.
Odin.Dizzi
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 41
By Odin.Dizzi 2009-05-13 19:17:11
Dasva said: Dizzi said: Dasva said: Or just steal widowers ideas and make them there own for "there" updates. I'm looking at you autosort I have hardly ever seen SE copying any "invention" found by users or other MMORPGs. Though, I would appreciate to see WoW's barber in Vanadiel anytime soon! While there's life, there's hope... Here I'll bold it for you and I said stealing windowers ideas Here; I'll bold it for you. Considering Windower has ~37 (more or less "useful*") plugins, how much has been copied by SE? 2.7%*plugins which improve FFXI, also, arent considered "cheating".
Leviathan.Syagin
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 999
By Leviathan.Syagin 2009-05-13 20:03:50
Jaerik said: Luignata said: And with that said… let’s talk about a different subject. People who use windower are less skilled then those without, obvious reasons, Windower with all their plugins, gives an advantage over those that don’t.
Discuss! I would argue that if your definition of "skill" is whether or not someone can count to 3 in their heads without the assistance of an on-screen counter, it might be time to find a new hobby. Looks like Luig hit a nerve =P
Leviathan.Syagin
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 999
By Leviathan.Syagin 2009-05-13 20:08:00
Deathsshadow said: Only Thing that i disagree about windower is the fact that u hav a slight advantage over consoles users xD I don't see how windower users have not seemed to admit that. Idk like I said show me some Video's minus use of windower being that people are saying it only makes a "little" Impact on how the game is played thats all im saying =P
Leviathan.Syagin
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 999
By Leviathan.Syagin 2009-05-13 20:11:42
Bartimaeus said: Console users can sit on couches while they play. HAX! lmao, I actually do sit in my lazy boy hahaha.
Odin.Dizzi
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 41
By Odin.Dizzi 2009-05-13 20:18:42
Deathsshadow said: Only Thing that i disagree about windower is the fact that u hav a slight advantage over consoles users xD Well, Xbos/PS2 user can slam down on couch while playing. Being a PC player you only have that da*n armchair! Bigest advantage of windower users: You can watch pr0n while playing. Id take #1. Couch ftw.
Answer to that, PC Input cable on desktop running through TV...and my lazy boy.
. . .
Oh god...what have I done? lol
Sylph.Drohk
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4
By Sylph.Drohk 2009-05-13 20:31:00
Syagin said: Jaerik said: Luignata said: And with that said… let’s talk about a different subject. People who use windower are less skilled then those without, obvious reasons, Windower with all their plugins, gives an advantage over those that don’t.
Discuss! I would argue that if your definition of "skill" is whether or not someone can count to 3 in their heads without the assistance of an on-screen counter, it might be time to find a new hobby. Looks like Luig hit a nerve =P Well, once you've played for several years, take me for instance, you need these extra "perks" to keep motivation to play. I've been playing for 6 years, basically since release, and I only use the the exp counter and the TP display. I think those are kinda beneficial to everyone in the party; it doesn't give them an edge, just makes it "more convenient" for them.
Leviathan.Syagin
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 999
By Leviathan.Syagin 2009-05-13 20:43:41
Drohk said: Syagin said: Jaerik said: Luignata said: And with that said… let’s talk about a different subject. People who use windower are less skilled then those without, obvious reasons, Windower with all their plugins, gives an advantage over those that don’t.
Discuss! I would argue that if your definition of "skill" is whether or not someone can count to 3 in their heads without the assistance of an on-screen counter, it might be time to find a new hobby. Looks like Luig hit a nerve =P Well, once you've played for several years, take me for instance, you need these extra "perks" to keep motivation to play. I've been playing for 6 years, basically since release, and I only use the the exp counter and the TP display. I think those are kinda beneficial to everyone in the party; it doesn't give them an edge, just makes it "more convenient" for them. Well Dro I tell you what I can respect that actually, but you still have those people that in there eyes they are untouchable,godly,the best player to ever pick up the game...Until Windower is broken then is goes from that to Wow Lag!,SE is *** us,OMFG I hate this games!! blah blah...
Asura.Korpg
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-05-13 20:55:55
You can *** with me
but don't *** with an admin, cause while I can't ban you from the forums.....
....they can
Leviathan.Symbol
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 67
By Leviathan.Symbol 2009-05-13 21:00:17
Bartimaeus said: Console users can sit on couches while they play. HAX! The plus side of this,It does not stress your eyes the same way as sitting in a chair in front of your screen all day,this avoids frequent headaches PC users that play CLOSE to the screen for hours get. also couches are made by third parties, that enhances my game and makes me relax moar! WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT SE?
SE has you, and your broken in couch.
Leviathan.Symbol
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 67
By Leviathan.Symbol 2009-05-13 21:22:58
Shirai said: SE has you, and your broken in couch. Orly?
Look at the back of your skull now and you'll see the GPS tracking device. They're probably on the way now...and better believe they're bringing the ban hammer. lol
Leviathan.Symbol
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 67
By Leviathan.Symbol 2009-05-13 21:32:15
Shirai said: Look at the back of your skull now and you'll see the GPS tracking device. They're probably on the way now...and better believe they're bringing the ban hammer. lol They came, they just used the ban hammer to smash my couch since it was not made by them :/ But I got a warning tho!
Ramuh.Dasva
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-05-13 21:32:29
Shirai said: Look at the back of your skull now and you'll see the GPS tracking device. They're probably on the way now...and better believe they're bringing the ban hammer. lol Believe it!!!
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 36553
By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-05-13 21:34:39
Bojack said: Xxnumbertwoxx said: God Lu you're such a *** lol Naw, he's just too busy building his post count to read posts longer than a paragraph. lol XD Ok...reading threw the thread once again. I see this. *#$^ you! Why do you guys think its my goal to get high post count?
I was just checking out one of Minipie's Pic's an notice a few comments from Haseyo,Atrithk,and Luignata which kinda motivated me to ask how people feel about this particular program. Do you feel players to brag about being as good as they are using this program would be just as good w/o it? (In a rush, didn't bother to check grammar bare w/ me.) I'm curious though how people feel, Ill check post later.
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