Best Dagger For Thief
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Best dagger for thief
Oh don't get me wrong I'm not agreeing with them just wading through their huge post for a simplified version since you didn't seem to get their point.
Shiva.Arana said: » They mean the Rancor back and nef neck over rancor neck and atheling back. More crit less da basically. Still bad advice.
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Bahamut.Cantontai said: » Rancorous has +17 attack as well, so you're only losing 3. Shiva.Arana said: » I'm sorry I missed the part where 3 more DA and 3 more ATK was worse than 3 Crit on a job with a high Crit rate, explain it again? Holy *** read this:
Shiva.Arana said: » Oh don't get me wrong I'm not agreeing with them just wading through their huge post for a simplified version since you didn't seem to get their point. Shiva.Arana said: » Holy *** read this: Shiva.Arana said: » Oh don't get me wrong I'm not agreeing with them just Thf knife
/thread Shiva.Arana said: » More crit less da basically. Bahamut.Cantontai said: » It seems as though you're making a case for diminishing returns in Critical Hit Rate+, which, ok. But your alternative is....a critical hit rate neck that has a lower percentage. What? I said this: Shiva.Arana said: » They mean the Rancor back and nef neck over rancor neck and atheling back. More crit less da basically. Shiva.Arana said: » Bahamut.Cantontai said: » It seems as though you're making a case for diminishing returns in Critical Hit Rate+, which, ok. But your alternative is....a critical hit rate neck that has a lower percentage. What? I said this: Shiva.Arana said: » They mean the Rancor back and nef neck over rancor neck and atheling back. More crit less da basically. I see what you're saying. ***. Yup, I was confused about what was being supposed about crit rate, but in my defense their entire point is without any basis. Fair enough, no hard feelings yea?
Shiva.Arana said: » Fair enough, no hard feelings yea? Just towards the Nef/Ranc Mantle idiot ^^
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Pretty sure their entire point is based on not knowing how to multiply.
Ramuh.Yarly said: » 99 mandau + 99 twash ! For TH upgrading purposes, replace one of those with Thief Knife. For what it's worth, Mote's spreadsheet has Nef/Rancorous coming up ~1% ahead of Rancor/Atheling on Dyna DC. For my build anyay, and it's entirely possible that I *** something up.
I don't think they were saying that combo is never good (it is in some cases), I think they were just saying that "stop using Rancor Collar" is a bit extreme to say without substantial qualifications.
Personally, as Mithra, I use Love Torque + Rancorous vs Dyna DC. If you need the acc, Rancor/Atheling is better.
If you don't need the 6Acc. 3% Crit beats 3%DA and 3Attack. Why? Thief has +14% native critical hit damage bonus and native 10% Triple attack (The former favours crit, and the latter diminishes DA). Thf should have 4%QA 16%TA 23%DA in a non-DC dyna set. Firstly, because of the priority of QA>TA>DA, 3% DA is actually only 2.04% increase in DoT. (3%DA is actually 2.4~% and the base 23% is only 18.5~, 120.9664 / 118.5472 = 1.02040706) From my last few Prov Watcher parses, 3% crit should be about 4.5% increase in DoT. 60/40 melee/ws split, that's about a 2.7% increase. 2.7 > 2.0. 3 Attack isn't going to make up 0.7%. Rough numbers, can post spreadsheet numbers later to prove the point. But effectively (Unless using the new proposed skadi/sigyn/patentia build which could change everything) for the standard AF3 & 4/5 Thaumas build Nefarious/Rancorous is better than Rancor/Atheling unless you need the 6Acc on Rancor Collar. (And Love Torque/Rancorous is better than both if you happen to be in the sweet dDex spot where it gives 5% crit). Edit: Times when you should need the acc: Stuff like Ig-Alima and Legion but in all honesty you should probably be using Sharpeye in that case, or even sushi because even with Aggressor and Stalwarts you'll only have about 70% hit rate. Asura.Kurriko said: » Edit: Times when you should need the acc: Stuff like Ig-Alima and Legion but in all honesty you should probably be using Sharpeye in that case, or even sushi because even with Aggressor and Stalwarts you'll only have about 70% hit rate. Quote: From my last few Prov Watcher parses, 3% crit should be about 4.5% increase in DoT. 60/40 melee/ws split, that's about a 2.7% increase. No.
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Fenrir.Sylow said: » Quote: From my last few Prov Watcher parses, 3% crit should be about 4.5% increase in DoT. 60/40 melee/ws split, that's about a 2.7% increase. No. Even if you had a 50/50 split (which is more plausible in VW if you have regain atma+temp+embrava) then it's still a 2.25% increase, and that 0.25% is still more than 3Attack is going to give you in that situation with the attack buffs you'll have. Phoenix.Suji said: » THF can use letalis mantle. In cases where you aren't acc capped you should be using Letalis+Rancor collar. For times when you're capped, Nefarious+Rancorous. Atheling is for Exenterator. Look at the end of the day, I've shown with some simple theory and napkin math why the setup I proposed is better. It's up to you to put it into the spreadsheet and see for yourself (as one person already did). If you don't want to test it out for yourself then that's not my problem - I already know it's the best setup for capped-acc in a 4/5 Thaumas set. You're only hurting yourself by immediately dismissing it. As I said in my first post - The reason why Rancor/Atheling is better for jobs like Ninja is that unlike Thf it doesn't have native 10% Triple Attack and 14% Critical Attack Bonus which both favour criticals over DA in this example. And if you want to know where I pulled 4.5% from then it's simple:
A crit is a 250% increase in damage based on my numbers. Meaning an extra 150% damage added to your base. 3% of 150 is 4.5. Simple. If you think I'm pulling the parse numbers out of my arse then here:Prov Watcher only. 2 fights. /War, RCB, Min x2, Mad x2, Stalwarts, Bravers, Monarchs, Champions, Embrava, Boost-Str, Incursion/Coercion/Slayer atmacites.
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Shield and Dual Wield gear, eh?
Herp derp. Serves me right for posting at 4am lol.
Asura.Kurriko said: » And if you want to know where I pulled 4.5% from then it's simple: A crit is a 250% increase in damage based on my numbers. Meaning an extra 150% damage added to your base. 3% of 150 is 4.5. Simple. Except you already had 30.55% crit rate (We'll call it 30) So it's not +4.5%. 100 + 150(0.3) = 145 100 + 150(0.33) = 150 (150-145)/145 = 3.4% There's something bizarre about your melee damage, though. You have hits for 0 but your melee +0 and melee -0 averages are identical, which is unlikely. I think that's an error with kparser. I don't know why it says melee low was 0, melee low was 21Thanks for correcting my numbers. In this case, due to the skewed TP/WS ratio due to 11 tick regain, the setup does favour Rancor/Atheling. So I shall revise my original claim to:
Acc capped + Mad regain: Rancor/Atheling Acc uncapped: Rancor/Letalis Acc capped: Nefarious/Rancorous Considering Embrava will soon be changed to refresh, the top category won't be very common. So I still feel comfortable in saying "Nef/Rancor > Rancor/Atheling" as a general rule. To repeat: You can always check it for yourself in the spreadsheet. Spreadsheet is going to give widely varied results depending on how you define your targets. (Additionally, using real weapons will alter the results)
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