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[Dev] Impetus and Tantra Cyclas +2
VIP
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-21 14:36:49
02-21-2012 02:20 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Impetus and Tantra Cyclas +2
There was a short comment from Mizuki Ito mentioning that they were looking into whether or not the augmented Impetus effect on Tantra Cyclas +2 needed to be revamped. This caught the interest of some Japanese players and Ito responded a bit more in-depth.
Mizuki Ito said: Current Status
We are monitoring this, but will most likely keep the stats the way it is now.
Concerns
“Augments Impetus” increases the maximum value of enhanced critical hit damage, and the compatibility with Victory Smite is extremely high.
The enhanced critical hit damage increases by 1% every time an attack lands, and it can rise to a maximum value of 50%.
As a result of preserving this power, we are concerned about the below conditions arising.
- Excessive power inflation
- Necessity of a monk for everything, as well as situations where “as long as there is a monk other jobs are not needed”.
Example, (like Abyssea) situations where monks can be selected for content since they are able to tank full time.
Based on the above
With the recent version update, in order to prevent an overall power inflation we reduced the TP critical hit modifier for Ukko’s Fury and Victory Smite.
When looking into this adjustment, we also considered the stats on Tantra Cyclas +2 and we intended to cut the adjustments just close enough so equipment would not have to be changed, so there shouldn’t be any problems with this in regards to power inflation.
Also, in regards to monks becoming essential for all content, the below are some reasons why it will not happen:
- Impetus effect will only increase when attacking and misses will reset the effect.
- Difficult to fight safely without taking damage during high level content such as long HNM battles, etc.
- Difficult to function as a tank continuously regardless of the content or situation.
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Lakshmi.Eyrhika
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 764
By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2012-02-21 14:41:26
Impetus is not the reason MNKs are "essential for all content".. what the hell is SE smoking..
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-02-21 14:44:10
I had no idea monks were needed for everything....
Leviathan.Phenomena
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-21 14:44:12
Impetus is not the reason MNKs are "essential for all content".. what the hell is SE smoking..
Monks arent essential for all content >.>
Bahamut.Krizz
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3158
By Bahamut.Krizz 2012-02-21 14:47:18
Quote: As a result of preserving this power, we are concerned about the below conditions arising.
Excessive power inflation
Necessity of a monk for everything, as well as situations where “as long as there is a monk other jobs are not needed”.
Example, (like Abyssea) situations where monks can be selected for content since they are able to tank full time.
Quetzalcoatl.Milliniar
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 262
By Quetzalcoatl.Milliniar 2012-02-21 14:48:26
but seriously how many people hit 50 times in a row before ws?
Bahamut.Krizz
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3158
By Bahamut.Krizz 2012-02-21 14:49:13
Quetzalcoatl.Milliniar said: »but seriously how many people hit 50 times in a row before ws? FTFY. The bonus doesn't vanish when you WS.
Lakshmi.Rearden
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-02-21 14:51:37
Considering it takes perfect gear/luck to win a parse on MNK on T6 stuff when playing with good players, I would venture to say Impetus in its current form is a necessity for MNK to be relevant.
But this is SE.
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2012-02-21 15:04:55
So... "winning a parse" is the only key to relevancy? That only the absolute very pinnacle of player ability is acceptable?
Please, teach me to be like you!
But really, I think it's cool to hear this. I thought for sure that something would happen to impetus as soon as the bloodrage stuff came out. But, too, their monitoring it, soooo... not outta the woods yet, I guess!
[+]
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2767
By Odin.Tsuneo 2012-02-21 15:12:16
Performing well in a parse is relevant to being DD. If you aren't doing well on a parse as a DD, you aren't carrying your weight most likely. I won't say failing to win a parse makes you bad. As long as the winner didn't beat you by a huge margin, that would be good enough for me.
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2012-02-21 15:18:06
Hey, I'm sorry. It's every individuals 12.95 or whatever. And I may have misunderstood what he meant. I still disagree, though. I do think that absolute max damage output at all times is a very narrow view of any dd job. That being said, I'm also not here trying to defend my damage output - I do just fine, thanks.
And obviously "performing well" is necessary. "Winning" sometimes is, sometimes isn't.
[+]
VIP
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-21 15:18:37
Parsing is nice, but I really only see it being a reliable source of information if every DD'er is fighting at the same time.
There are situations where you have to back off, or use WS's that are weak just to proc. During these situations a parse can't show us what the person was doing, and why they aren't doing as much damage as another job. There are times when a single DD'er is on the enemy, wouldn't that throw off an accurate parse?
I'm no DD'er, but to me it sounds like parsing does not favor current content. When legion comes around it will for sure though.
Valefor.Rancor
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 256
By Valefor.Rancor 2012-02-21 15:20:06
'Example, (like Abyssea) situations where monks can be selected for content since they are able to tank full time.'
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Ninja
War
described by the above
This is when you know SE has no idea wtf is going on inside the game
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 390
By Bismarck.Pawnskipper 2012-02-21 15:20:33
Hey, I'm sorry. It's every individuals 12.95 or whatever. And I may have misunderstood what he meant. I still disagree, though. I do think that absolute max damage output at all times is a very narrow view of any dd job. And obviously "performing well" is necessary. "Winning" sometimes is, sometimes isn't.
^this I agree with.
But I think some of the "Parse Nazis" are mobilizing now. Look out!! lol
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2012-02-21 15:21:14
Bismarck.Pawnskipper said: »Hey, I'm sorry. It's every individuals 12.95 or whatever. And I may have misunderstood what he meant. I still disagree, though. I do think that absolute max damage output at all times is a very narrow view of any dd job. And obviously "performing well" is necessary. "Winning" sometimes is, sometimes isn't.
^this I agree with.
But I think some of the "Parse Nazis" are mobilizing now. Look out!! lol
{Run Away!}
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2767
By Odin.Tsuneo 2012-02-21 15:21:50
Hey, I'm sorry. It's every individuals 12.95 or whatever. And I may have misunderstood what he meant. I still disagree, though. I do think that absolute max damage output at all times is a very narrow view of any dd job. That being said, I'm also not here trying to defend my damage output - I do just fine, thanks. Those people can go suck it up with their 12.95 in someone else's party.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2012-02-21 15:23:55
Hey, I'm sorry. It's every individuals 12.95 or whatever. And I may have misunderstood what he meant. I still disagree, though. I do think that absolute max damage output at all times is a very narrow view of any dd job. That being said, I'm also not here trying to defend my damage output - I do just fine, thanks.
And obviously "performing well" is necessary. "Winning" sometimes is, sometimes isn't. and my 12.95 allows me to use the kick member function
Lakshmi.Rearden
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-02-21 16:16:12
If the argument is "Having a MNK is required" so "we are looking at reducing the effect of Impetus/TT+2" then yes, the ability to win a parse is relevant. As I said, it takes perfect gear and luck (as parses in a vacuum are not entirely accurate) to win/come close to winning a parse on T6 mobs on MNK. That would indicate that not only is MNK not required, but that without Impetus/TT+2 bonus you are probably never going to see yourself at the top again.
This is ignoring the fact that this is a logical conclusion to a statement, and also ignoring that if content was being achieved because of MNK (it's not) then making MNK worse wouldn't really benefit anyone, hence --> SE being SE.
As far as DD's and winning parses, that's the only way you should be playing. That's why T6 parties are formed through list invitation and not risked through shout parties.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 768
By Asura.Arkanethered 2012-02-21 16:25:10
If they are wanting to implement changes that will prevent mnk from becoming an overpowered tank... They need a time machine.
Leviathan.Phenomena
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-21 16:32:56
Asura.Arkanethered said: »If they are wanting to implement changes that will prevent mnk from becoming an overpowered tank... They need a time machine.
or nerf counterstance...
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-02-21 16:49:56
Or get out of abyssea
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 45
By Shiva.Karmessurma 2012-02-21 16:52:55
Easy solution. Go play SAM. You will never get nerfed.
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-02-21 17:02:10
Hey, I'm sorry. It's every individuals 12.95 or whatever. And I may have misunderstood what he meant. I still disagree, though. I do think that absolute max damage output at all times is a very narrow view of any dd job. That being said, I'm also not here trying to defend my damage output - I do just fine, thanks.
And obviously "performing well" is necessary. "Winning" sometimes is, sometimes isn't. I tried to come up with something to summarize my reaction to this post, but ultimately failed for lack of strong enough words. Is this really the extent of your understanding of FFXI theorycraft? Do you really think these thoughts contribute anything to the community?
[+]
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 298
By Shiva.Schatzie 2012-02-21 17:02:55
I do think that absolute max damage output at all times is a very narrow view of any dd job.
why bother playing a DD then? "its my 12.95" isnt a valid justification to suck.
[+]
Bismarck.Sylow
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-21 17:05:00
Pretty soon DNC and SAM will be the only jobs left.
Edit: and BLU, WHM.
By Fupafighters 2012-02-21 17:05:35
Really? lol mnks aren't getting shanked enough? I haven't heard a thing about nerfing resolution or Shoha, but they want to keep making it harder for people that took the time to get the good stuff... Makes no sense...Not every monk has verethregna and perfect gear to accomplish this so called 50% cap....
Bismarck.Sylow
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-21 17:06:56
Not every monk has verethregna.
Every MNK I invite has Verethagna!
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By Fupafighters 2012-02-21 17:09:10
Well I have a 90 verethregna and the gear to back it up...Stop nerfing my ***SE lol. Sylow...thank god my 2 main jobs are dnc and sam :P
[+]
By Kieron 2012-02-21 17:11:28
Can we get through one update without nerfing something?
Please?
02-21-2012 02:20 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Impetus and Tantra Cyclas +2
There was a short comment from Mizuki Ito mentioning that they were looking into whether or not the augmented Impetus effect on Tantra Cyclas +2 needed to be revamped. This caught the interest of some Japanese players and Ito responded a bit more in-depth.
Mizuki Ito said: Current Status
We are monitoring this, but will most likely keep the stats the way it is now.
Concerns
“Augments Impetus” increases the maximum value of enhanced critical hit damage, and the compatibility with Victory Smite is extremely high.
The enhanced critical hit damage increases by 1% every time an attack lands, and it can rise to a maximum value of 50%.
As a result of preserving this power, we are concerned about the below conditions arising.
- Excessive power inflation
- Necessity of a monk for everything, as well as situations where “as long as there is a monk other jobs are not needed”.
Example, (like Abyssea) situations where monks can be selected for content since they are able to tank full time.
Based on the above
With the recent version update, in order to prevent an overall power inflation we reduced the TP critical hit modifier for Ukko’s Fury and Victory Smite.
When looking into this adjustment, we also considered the stats on Tantra Cyclas +2 and we intended to cut the adjustments just close enough so equipment would not have to be changed, so there shouldn’t be any problems with this in regards to power inflation.
Also, in regards to monks becoming essential for all content, the below are some reasons why it will not happen:
- Impetus effect will only increase when attacking and misses will reset the effect.
- Difficult to fight safely without taking damage during high level content such as long HNM battles, etc.
- Difficult to function as a tank continuously regardless of the content or situation.
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