Gearing Rudra's At 99

i'm just throwing this out there, but it appears that crit. rate + haste would make the biggest difference in melee dmg seeing how a crit. hit does much more dmg than reg. hits, compared to a reg. hit compared with a reg. hit + str/attk

it sure appears that way sometimes... in any case are you arguing that offhanding the str. trial dagger will be anywhere near the rudra's dmg while offhanding the tp bonus dagger... cuz it won't...

ITT: DNC WS damage outweighs its melee damage.

This is why we do math.


6000-3000 = 3000 / 3000 --> +100%
6000-4000 = 2000 / 4000 --> +50%

Are you seriously trying to argue that increasing a multiplier by less than 25% is going to result in +50-100% gains on WS damage? If so, then please stop while you're ahead.

I am the OP.

And you clearly didn't read the OP. OR my recent response to you.

Just the thread name.


And this is just assinine. No one here is saying it's the best because it's harder or more expensive to make. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm saying if I wanted to do the most damage, I'd ideally make one, but because I don't care about the damage boost at the expense of TH -- or even about my thief at all outside if situations where I need TH -- I won't make one. But I acknowledge I'm shedding damage, as such.

You desperately want to be "non-bandwagon" or you care more about your shiny weapon skill damage numbers vs. your true DPS going up.

And your anecdotal evidence is just laughably eyeballed or -- potentially worse -- entirely fabricated for your own self aggrandizement.

^

STR Magian will help your overall damage (WS + Melee combined) much more than the TP Bonus ever will. At least you aren't considering OA2-4. (Terrible btw.)

i'm not gonna waste the hours required to justify my claims by doing math, but i don't think it's bad to suggest that something could work better due to eyeballing either...this is an online game forum for crying out loud, not a math forum, we need more open-mindedness here sometimes...

i mean, i applaud all for working to make the str./attk. dagger for dps, but it seems to me that a topic about gearing rudra's would be about gearing a ws... sorry, you caught me, i didn't really read too much.

i am fully aware of dps but do you really think dps will take a huge hit between a tp bonus dagger and a str trial dagger? it seems to me that a large diff. in dmg per ws if more effective than a small diff. per melee hit. unless you think that the diff. per melee hit(due to 11str/22atk.) is going to be so great, but i don't think so.

it seems that a lot of people just wanna see math and numbers and yah, it's so cool that you can try to shoot down an idea by crying for proof, but if you're so much into math(that is not 100%) and game mechanics (not 100% figured out either), then go for it, i'll read and take note of your research anyway.

In the case of uncapped fSTR, 11str can contribute up to ~5% extra damage per melee swing. 27.5 Attack in the case of uncapped attack can also be around this figure... so yes, it is very substantial.

The mathematical formulae used are essentially 100% figured out - there is little we do not know precisely.

Good news! You don't have to waste any time. Someone's already done the work for you. Sadly, your claims have been invalidated.

This is a game. But it is a video game. Based on code. With code based on mathematics.

There is a clear "best" for nearly every slot out there for every situation.

You are not required to have every last piece of gear for every situation. You are not required to use the best piece of gear in any situation for any reason you wish: too much work, too expensive, you think it's ugly, your ex-wife made one and you want to have absolutely nothing in common with her anymore.

What you cannot do is argue against a validated fact that people have worked out through research and plugging in the numbers. Fact is fact.

Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so.

When it comes to "gearing for a WS," unless you're literally not meleeing at all, it's ludicrous to assume that you would not consider the negative and/or effects on melee phase damage from any slot that cannot vary between meleeing and using a weapon skill.

sorry, i didn't know i was arguing against "validated fact" i definitely would never do such a thing. please accept my apologies.

Legit question time!
Rebumping these questions since I never got an answer and I finally got Toci's after about 500+ kills.

Oh yeah, I have Wanion Belt now, so I use that in place of my Warwolf.

Hey everyone,
I know there's a lot of Rudra's sets floating around, but I just finished my Twash99 and I'm looking to optimize my set, especially for Dyna farming vs. DCs. I need help from a mathy person, please! Keep in mind I'm Elvaan with full STR merits.
Here's the current set :



Moonshade is TP Bonus + Attack.
Thokcha is STR, obviously.
Rex is a jerk, one day I'll have Athos.
Specific concerns :
Neck : Love vs. Justiciar's
Ear : Brutal vs. Ghillie+1 vs. Dex Ear
Rings : Thundersoul x2, Raja's + Thundersoul, or Current?
Belt : Cuch vs. Wanion
Feet : ***+2 vs. Athos

Thanks so much for your mathings, in advance!

This thread confuses me.

Rudra works exactly the same way it did pre-99 as opposed to post-99. What's with the confusion over post-99 Rudra?

Furthermore, anyone else bothered over the fact that people, who don't know the basic mechanics of the game, are finishing lv99 empyrean weapons? It's like finishing a Mandau in the old days and asking how to gear Mercy Stroke.

Ihina,
There is no confusion post-99. Glad to know you already judged that I don't know the basic mechanics of the game! I can't see how you could possibly be bothered by my weapon, since I farmed for/bought my plates and riftdross. Does something in particular bother you about my set/questions? If so, please let me know, that's what I'm looking for.
If not well... I'm a long time thf + dnc + battle brd, who has done endless eyeballing/parsing/forum browsing to figure out the best sets for different situations. Here's the problem : I believe in math! But I don't know how to FFXI math. Just looking for a little bit of help tweaking, now that I am not spending every last penny I make on plates and dross.

Incoming "that's elitest" comments and how everyone deserves a relic etc etc etc etc.

If you don't know the mechanics of atk vs stats, as you clearly don't, then you don't know the basic mechanics of the game.

The math doesn't mean jack squat if you don't know how the numbers come about.

ATK is used entirely in opposition with the enemy's DEF. The more def the enemy has, the more valuable atk is. The less def the enemy has, the less valuable atk is. That sentence right there, something that everyone should already know, shows how moronic your question is, regarding atk vs dex.

Here, I'll help you out even further. There are few cases where X piece is better than Y piece every time. Most gear selection pieces depend entirely on the mob you're fighting, the buffs you're receiving and the debuffs the mob has on it at that moment.

Here, I'll help YOU out even further. I said in Dyna vs. DC mobs. That specific situation. Me, DC mob, no buffs except Red Curry, no debuffs except box step and acid bolt, if the Def Down procs/sticks until I proc the mob. Can you answer my questions, or wanna keep hitting me with general statements?

I'll go with more general statements.

Dex gear when defense down/high level of box step is on. Atk gear otherwise.

As for rajas vs thundersoul, brutal vs jupiter's pearl, etc etc, I can assure you that if you do 1000 WSs and average them together, they'll only be a few points off from each other. It's meaningless to put a second thought into it, unless you're abnormally obsessive like I am.

Ihina certainly answering Denore's question with a real answer would have been easier than all the other stuff you put down right? I mean, if you actually knew the math and could answer it definitively, surely it would have taken less effort to actually be helpful instead of spouting nonsense of how basic something was. Pretty sure the question was how did it math out.

By giving such general answers to specific questions, it seams that you in fact have no idea what the mathematical answer would be. All it seams you have tried to do in your posts is come off as an elite player by using buzz words and a dismissive attitude while giving no definitive answer. If you have something definitive to add you should just go ahead and add it instead of beating around the bush. If not give the guy a break and try to impress someone else with your vagueness.

Denore, I wish I knew more about the math to answer your question.

*Edited* because I cant read..

At the time I made the thread, I was more interested in just discussing optimal gear sets with what was available at 99 because there was no thread dedicated to this yet. There was the Rudra's Damage thread, but it had a useless bs:valuable info ratio of like 10:1, at best.

That's it. Sorry if the wording of the threat title implied I somehow thought the weaponskill properties changed. That would be idiotic and I'd think it beyond someone to assume this was the point, but I guess not.

Edit: and in defense of some the gear questions, thief has a lot of gear available with 1) a lot of attack 2) a lot of boosted stat or 3) less well-defined "enhances (blank) damage" that could apply to the weaponskill.

Without knowing all the values, the thread was also intended to clear up what of these would be the best to use.

/shrug

I'm gonna guess using Epona's, Brutal, and Relic +2 feet aren't really worth it, since you're only going to be using Rudra's stacked... so the extra hits aren't going to do that much. Would suggest another DEX ring (augmented Jupiter's or Thundersoul), Jupiter's Pearl, and Athos Feet. I don't think any of those should be out of your reach.

Prosilio Belt and Hecatomb +1 Legs if uncapped attack/fSTR (doubt you're capped on DC Dynamis mobs on THF). Gorget may or may not beat out Love Torque, I'd have to check...

I don't think I was being vague at all. He's searching for an answer that doesn't exist. And I told him that, twice. And I explained why that is, twice.

All I've done is give the usually tried-and-true 'everything is siutational' response. The one thing I could do is be nicer about it.

If that's your only complaint, then you can piss off and grow some thicker skin because I'm not here to baby anyone.

Thanks Gimpness. Some of those pieces I hadn't even considered tbh. I'll try them out next run.
Ihina : Her, her, her. (I know that you had no way to know that, it's just starting to feel weird getting "him"ed so much!) Also, I don't require babying, was just looking for some feedback! But, since no one has time in Dyna to count Box Steps and hit different macros depending on how many land, your advice was of little use to me, unfortunately.

Aren't you glad I didn't baby you then.

Some of his advice is good, but the logic is kinda shakey

Assume 2.0pdif for regular hit, 3.0 for crit
(47/9)+8 = 13 when floored. Going to assume hume.

47 + 13 + (174 * .85 * .6) = 148
148 * 2 = 297.

Offhand hit should add approximately 300 damage, which is a hell of a lot of damage.

Of course, it's 5% chance, so 300 * (2*.05) = 30 extra damage on average. Both hands have a chance to proc DA at 5% each.

If you want 30 extra damage from Rudra

mainhit
55 + 14 + (174*.85*.6) = 157
157 * 3 = 471
471 + 174 = 645
645 * 1.23 = 793
793 * 3 = 2379

offhand hit
47 + 13 + (174*.85*.6) = 148
148 * 2 = 296

2379 + 296 = 2675 (+0dex)
2394 + 298 = 2692 (+1dex)
2397 + 298 = 2695 (+2dex)
2412 + 300 = 2712 (+3dex)
2415 + 300 = 2715 (+4dex)

Since 2675 + 30 = 2705, brutal earring is a little under 3dex under these specific, but usual conditions.

Then you have to take into consideration naturally procing DA. Here, you also have to take into consideration your sub.

Then you have to take into consideration naturally procing TA.

QA (if appliable)

Assassin's charge.

At the end of the day, Brutal earring's, using this WS, under these specific but usual conditions, is worth about 2dex. Brutal earring is a second-tier earring now, so it's not worth mentioning anymore.

Hmm, looking back, I guess I was wrong about the brutal earring being on par with the Jupiter's Pearl. My bad. I'm guilty of buying into conventional wisdom too <_<

Only thing is, AF2+2 does beat Athos boots though, but only under the condition that DA/TA/QA hasn't proced on any of the other hits. That means assassin's charge => Athos wins; otherwise, AF2+2 wins. Average-wise, the more DA/TA/QA you use for WSs, the stronger Athos boots become.

They're both second tier Rudra boots now though, so also not worth mentioning. Thaumus beats both. Only under very rare conditions does Athos beat Thaumus, and even then, it's not noticeable.

Butttttt anyways, the conclusion is that, it's not that offhand hits don't do much damage, it's that overtime, you'll get a higher average from +dex gear since Rudra is very dex-heavy.


Love Torque and sea gorget is pretty much the same, if you fire off at 100% tp. Under the condition that you have over 100%tp, Love Torque will pull ahead.

I don't even want to get into the Prosilio Belt. There's just way too many variables to consider.

I'm not sure what the hell fStr has to do with Hecatomb Subligar+1, but you'd need to be in utter desperation for the atk(and 4dex) from the subligar to surpass +4crit damage. That's just not happening in Dynamis.

First-tier, second tier and garbage tier are terms I pulled out of my behind, but they're very applicable. Of these


They're all first tier, or situationally first tier, items besides Brutal, Epona, AF2+2 and Athos, for Rudra.

There are some first-tier items that will always win no matter what. +4dex earring will always win, on Rudra, no matter what. There are other first tier items that are situational, like Vigilance Mantle+1 vs Atheling Mantle. Even among the best items, most of it is still situational.

Thanks so much for taking the time to do this. Exactly what I was looking for!

Edit : You said you didn't want to touch Prosilio. I'm not so sure I want to touch it either, just yet. What's your call for this situation between that (ugh), Wanion and Cuch?

Those numbers are low, you have the wrong fTP for Rudra's and didn't count moonshade's TP bonus either.

Math fight! GO!
In all seriousness, what would that change for the proposed set, Austar?

Just drop the 174 DEX to 170, and change the fTP to 3.5 if we're using whatever set Ihina is using, since I assume he's using x2 DEX earrings.