? Why would a cure that generated a set amount of CE @lv.75 return less CE @lv.99? It's not like you're curing less HP. That said, I also haven't been following the PLD boards so I suppose it's as likely as anything else here.
Izilder's trying to give Eyrhika alcohol poisoning!
Cures DID give less enmity as your level gets higher; I am not sure if that continued after lv75. But that's not the whole issue, once a bunch of DDs cap their CE very quickly through damage, the monster just swings at the last person to recap their hate (last person to swing and not miss)before the attack goes off.
Not so serious note: I PROPOSE TO CHANGE THE OCHAIN/AEGIS AFTERGLOWS TO EXTREME ENMITY DECAY SPHERES!
yes but at least give Pld less of a hard time to hit and hold close to CE cap - hence why i mentioned a job trait that either gives a big hate boost on cures or affects CE decay some how. Or could even investigate a JA that steals/sheds players hate, as an AOE even? *shrug
Or remove temps from VW!
ofc on top DDs could/should "wave" out dmg a little more sensible - and ride those hate caps "smarter" over long fights - instead of just trying to impress people on the internet.
Or Pld can just let the "Hero's" die - hate cleared - and the ally hates the pld once more! xd
? Why would a cure that generated a set amount of CE @lv.75 return less CE @lv.99? It's not like you're curing less HP.
Cures DID give less enmity as your level gets higher; I am not sure if that continued after lv75.
I wasn't aware of this. What changed as we leveled to cause a difference in CE generation specifically where cures are involved?
It is true that enmity has been lowered as we went from 75-99, quite a bit actually. Great for WHM but not so great for PLD.
Basically the modifier lowers every level, or every other level, depending on where the level lands on the 5 pattern sequence, then multiplies that modifier with how much you've cured and that is how much enmity you gained.
So since the modifiers are smaller at 99 than they were at 75 if you cure for the same amount at 99 compared to 75 then you're enmity gain per cure has lowered.
Is this an issue? I'm not sure, I haven't read much up on enmity honestly since I don't really have problems with mine, but I think you aren't having that much more of an issue gaining enmity. You should be seeing that you have to cure more to reach cap, by quite a few cures actually, if you just stood there and did nothing but cast cure on yourself.
So good for mages, not good for you but not bad for you either.
? Why would a cure that generated a set amount of CE @lv.75 return less CE @lv.99? It's not like you're curing less HP.
Cures DID give less enmity as your level gets higher; I am not sure if that continued after lv75.
I wasn't aware of this. What changed as we leveled to cause a difference in CE generation specifically where cures are involved?
It is true that enmity has been lowered as we went from 75-99, quite a bit actually. Great for WHM but not so great for PLD. Basically the modifier lowers every level, or every other level, depending on where the level lands on the 5 pattern sequence, then multiplies that modifier with how much you've cured and that is how much enmity you gained. So since the modifiers are smaller at 99 than they were at 75 if you cure for the same amount at 99 compared to 75 then you're enmity gain per cure has lowered. Is this an issue? I'm not sure, I haven't read much up on enmity honestly since I don't really have problems with mine, but I think you aren't having that much more of an issue gaining enmity. You should be seeing that you have to cure more to reach cap, by quite a few cures actually, if you just stood there and did nothing but cast cure on yourself. So good for mages, not good for you but not bad for you either.
Dang, I've never heard of this and can't say I'm thrilled about it, either. It may not be a huge difference, but it's still a step in the wrong direction. This has always been a game of improvement by degrees. No way PLD should be on the same VE/CE generation tables as WHM, even though we're talking about enmity generated through cures.
? Why would a cure that generated a set amount of CE @lv.75 return less CE @lv.99? It's not like you're curing less HP.
Cures DID give less enmity as your level gets higher; I am not sure if that continued after lv75.
I wasn't aware of this. What changed as we leveled to cause a difference in CE generation specifically where cures are involved?
It is true that enmity has been lowered as we went from 75-99, quite a bit actually. Great for WHM but not so great for PLD. Basically the modifier lowers every level, or every other level, depending on where the level lands on the 5 pattern sequence, then multiplies that modifier with how much you've cured and that is how much enmity you gained. So since the modifiers are smaller at 99 than they were at 75 if you cure for the same amount at 99 compared to 75 then you're enmity gain per cure has lowered. Is this an issue? I'm not sure, I haven't read much up on enmity honestly since I don't really have problems with mine, but I think you aren't having that much more of an issue gaining enmity. You should be seeing that you have to cure more to reach cap, by quite a few cures actually, if you just stood there and did nothing but cast cure on yourself. So good for mages, not good for you but not bad for you either.
Dang, I've never heard of this and can't say I'm thrilled about it, either. It may not be a huge difference, but it's still a step in the wrong direction. This has always been a game of improvement by degrees. No way PLD should be on the same VE/CE generation tables as WHM, even though we're talking about enmity generated through cures.
I agree, should have a JA or possibly even a JT that flips the cures calculations upsidedown for pld.
Cures were hardly even a legitimate way to build hate at 75 when PLD's best damage dealing WS was capped at 750 damage and their DoT was pisspoor.
At level 99, (cure enmity is influenced by target level), with enhanced damage dealing ability and aftermath increasing DoT rather significantly as compared to a Joyeuse, it's kind of a no-brainer to see why Minjo is correct here.
Even with the changes to CE modifiers explained above, I don't believe PLD generates enmity quicker through damage dealt than through HP cured over a given time-period. The one-liner was meant as a visual cue towards this opinion. I guess I could say something about what I'm expecting next but there's not much point. Can you point me to somewhere which shows some concrete examples of enmity generation comparisons?
Spare me the one-liners. If you disagree, explain why.
Your exact statement was that PLD builds enmity through damage and not cures. So I will show you how, logically, this can be adjusted.
x = Time it takes for a full cure cycle (include casting time and recasting time)
y = The enmity from DPS one is able to fit into x time-frame
z = The amount of hate generated by a cure
When z > y, you have changed the logical method a PLD should pull hate.
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Defusing HP for full cure is not a problem (wear -hp gear > profit)
MP Regen shouldn't be too much of a headache now, either (espcially considering you're going to cap out CE with this method)
This, however, does not change playstyle after capped. Wear haste + acc, do damage. Maybe on high hate reset mobs, you'd get more use out of spamcasting, but it could change the playstyle on building enmity. Just not anything past that. For all intents and purposes, they need to change the way enmity is built in order for PLD to become tank again.
Capping enmity is not and has not been an issue for PLD in the slightest. Making cures afford more enmity will only slow the hate-holding process if you rely on them, as I guarantee most any DD you're tanking against will be swinging faster than you can spam your cures to recap CE and get a burst of VE.
No argument whatsoever on the fact that DD swinging away will build their CE faster overall than either of the two jobs formerly looked to for tanking. I've also no argument that capping enmity was never an issue for anyone even halfway skilled at playing PLD, but the fact is that cap is being reached too quickly by everyone, regardless of what their role is supposed to be.
I've never subscribed to the outlook that DD should be off the chain from the get-go, and I personally don't enjoy the rise in zerg tactics that's been going on in the game since what? Like '04 - '05? None of that matters though, because it's the atmosphere of the game now, so whatever.
Enmity aside, PLD is a survivalist. DD's drop like flies in VW (after temps, etc) and PLD can hold a mob until the alliance recovers. Other DD can't do the same or as efficiently as PLD can. That's where a they shine, I think.
If they're gonna chop some of the recast timers for these JAs, I wish they'd make them look more appealing at the same time.
Any bash animation looks boring and stupid.
Spare me the one-liners. If you disagree, explain why.
Make up your mind, man! (honestly, just doing the multi-quoting for levity. No offense intended.)
I think I understand now what you're saying about the previous suggestion not making any difference: Since everyone ends up hitting and maintaining the enmity cap fairly quickly, it doesn't make any difference overall how quickly the tank hits the cap.
Precisely. The issue lies in the lack of ability for a PLD to maintain drawing the enemy's attention for extended periods of time due to a ***enmity cap.
Shield Bash recast time will be reduced from five minutes to three.
To preserve balance in light of this change, the Shield Bash Recast merit point enhancement will be adjusted to reduce recast time by six seconds per level, instead of the previous ten.
Holy Circle
Recast time reduced from ten minutes to five.
Duration increased from one minute to three.
Reduction granted by Holy Circle Recast merit enhancement adjusted from twenty seconds per point to ten.
Sepulcher
Recast time reduced from ten minutes to five.
[dev1085] Job Adjustments: Paladin Part II
Fealty
Recast time will be reduced from twenty minutes to ten.
Additional merit points will no longer reduce recast time, but instead extend duration by an additional five seconds per point.
Chivalry
Recast time will be reduced from twenty minutes to ten.
Additional merit points will no longer reduce recast time, but instead increase MP recovery by an additional 5% per point.