THF TP Sets And Assassin Poulaines +2.

I have no idea why I did not notice the haste+3% on those til now. Damn, time to throw more gil down the drain for a job that I only get to slap TH on mobs with. D:

For what event? Assuming Dyna DC:

- Enif are a significant downgrade from AF3+2
- Fire thokcha
- Rancor Collar

Regarding Nomkahpa, I always have trouble substantiating any claim that they're a good piece to use. I PM'd Motenten about this the last time it came up, to see if perhaps the spreadsheet was somehow glitchy, and he was kind enough to write a thorough breakdown showing that Nomkahpa were indeed a slightly behind the 2/5 AF3+2, 2/5 Thaumas, AF2+2 feet set. At that time, they were the winning piece by a large margin if you happened to get marches, but that victory was due to 3% haste which Thaumas also has. Now I'm seeing 4/5 Thaumas beat everything thanks to its nice set bonus.

Re nefarious/rancorous vs rancor/atheling, my advice is to ignore this swap unless you need Nefarious for some other reason-- they really are pretty much equivalent.

Can I get a quick confirmation please?

If I'm currently TPing in this:

Based on what I've read from this thread, this is my understanding:
When I get haste + marches, swapping hands to Dusk Gloves +1 is better than swapping feet to Dusk Ledelsens +1. Is that right? Or am I supposed to just keep it how it is?

Were the 3/5 and 4/5 Thaumas sets entering the dDEX sweet spot? Letting them claim 10% crit rate no questions asked would explain why you're seeing Thaumas blow Nomkahpa + AF2+2 feet away. dDEX dependant performance can kiss my behind, I'm not going to look up a mob's AGI just to know what to TP in. So I'll take Nomkahpa + AF2+2 for the increased WS rate, which perform similarly and let you use your SA/TAs more efficiently.

Can I get a quick confirmation please?

If I'm currently TPing in this:


When would Brego gloves pull ahead of AF3+2? Thanks in advance.

You copy/pasted my post and then re-phrased it. I'm not sure if you're showing immaturity in an attempt to troll or just subtly inserting that Brego beats Dusk Gloves +1 which is an irrelevant answer to the question I was asking. If I'm mistaken, and your post had a different purpose, please be more clear.
(p.s. I like the avatar pic =D)

Perhaps I need to clarify the reason for my question.
From my understanding, AF3+2 gloves with AF2+2 boots are my best option for an unbuffed TP set excluding 2/5 Thaumas. However, I wasn't quite sure if that uncapped haste set was still ideal when I have double marches and spell haste.
I realize that the idea of a thief getting double marches is an uncommon concept, but I 2-box a brd/whm, so everything I do on my thf (most of which is just abyssea/dynamis), I always have haste and double marches.
Thief is not one of my primary jobs. However, I do like to play all my jobs as if they were a main job so I want to make the best use of the gear I have. My alternative choice for gloves and boots atm are the Dusk+1. At the time of this post I don't currently own Brego, nor are they worth any effort for me to get.

If someone is able to actually answer my question about the difference with haste/marches, please let me know. I would appreciate it.

Sorry Peldin, I did just copy and paste some parts of you question. Thank you for the template^^ But I'm not trying to troll. That was a serious question. I don't own Dusk+1, I own Brego. Is the set posted above still optimal w/ buffs like Haste? Or would Brego Gloves pull ahead? For /nin & /dnc inside and outside Abyssea?

LOL all good. Honestly I dug through this thread and there's one other where Motenten talks about the optimal TP set involving uncapped haste, but I was trying to get some clarification on the difference with buffs. I guess we're both looking for the same thing.

Focusing on TP set only (using Exenterator, for reference for WS TP amount), ignoring SA/TA.
Target Dynamis DC. Added an extra 20 dex to set to be sure dDex was well past capped, and give a bit of wiggle room on gear changes.

Given Haste and 2x Marches.

Baseline with 4/5 AF3 plus AF2+2 feet (23% gear haste): 313.581
Switching AF3+2 hands to Brego (1 fStr): 319.033
Switching AF3+2 hands to Dusk+1: 316.752

Change race from Taru to Elvaan so that fStr is capped even with Dusk:
AF3+2 hands: 314.178
Brego: 322.965
Dusk+1: 323.712

How much outside haste to have Brego break even with AF3+2? Am finding Brego winning in all cases. However if I allow for dDex to matter, as soon as you get 1% crit rate from the dex of AF3 hands, they start to win.
1% crit rate wins with no haste buffs
2% crit rate wins with Haste
4% crit rate wins with Haste + Victory March
6% crit rate wins with Haste + 2x March

Given merits and current gear sets, I would not be surprised if a thf could be TPing in enough dex to push into the sweet spot on many things. The vanilla set listed above has +37 dex in it. Determining exact dDex position is tricky, though. I would be inclined to bet on AF3+2 hands just for simplicity when only getting Haste, but switch to Brego when getting Marches.

Well, if we're gearing for Dynamis DC, then whether or not the sweet spot is being hit is relevant. And since that's the main event where my THF's performance really matters a lot to me (faster kills = mo' money), it's the main one I gear for.

That being said, if I apply a -10 DEX penalty under the same conditions, I see 4/5 Thaumas at 298.774 and Nomkahpa/AF2+2 feet at 291.038. At -20 DEX, they finally slightly cross by 0.17% with 289.344 and 289.838. As for how it scales on harder mobs, if I change the target to Pil with the -20 DEX penalty, 4/5 Thaumas is winning by 12% (before VW buffs). Thaumas should continue getting better as content gets harder too.

So yeah, I always have trouble coming up with support for them and I encourage all of my friends to not buy them (for THF, at least).

Thanks Motenten. Your insight is always appreciated.

We must have different setup page variables, because I've got Nom/AF2+2 winning across the board against Dyna DC's with the dDEX sweet spot taken away. Also, a few tenths of overall DPS behind on Pil, not 12% >.>

Across the board meaning with Acids as well as Raider's.

This is my setup:
Mithra, Lv99, /DNC, RCB
STR12, DEX12, Crit5%, Dagger16, Exent5
SA None, TA None, Solo Exenterator, ODD 24%
VW 0, Target Pil, Def down tier 0, Haste 1, Samba 1
Set bonus for Thaumas TP/WS is 10/-10/10 and 10/-10/10. (-20 penalty)
Set bonus for Nomkahpa TP/WS is 2/-18/2 and 10/-10/10. (-20 penalty)
Thaumas 112.059, Nomkahpa 100.287

Our discrepancy seems to be mostly due to your use of Acid Bolts (which I don't agree with using). Setting def down to tier 4 (2.5% more than Acid+Box), I get Thaumas 152.827 and Nomkahpa 137.571.

Switching back to Dynamis DC with this capped attack scenario and -20 DEX penalty and removing Raider's Boomerang, I get Thaumas 308.942 and Nomkahpa 313.576, so Thaumas isn't benefiting from its attack and falls behind. In line with my previous post, if I change to only def down tier 2 to simulate a few Box steps and add back in Raider's, I get 317.761 and 318.367.

And again, if I remove the DEX penalty, it's:
DynaDC: Thaumas 331.041, Nomkahpa 320.821
Pil: Thaumas 141.449, Nomkahpa 127.883

All that being said, ignoring DEX seems silly to me. The value of DEX, STR, attack, accuracy, haste, etc. are all context-dependent so it seems pretty arbitrary to ignore one. I mean, if you want to perform better in a given context, ignoring the stats that would benefit you the most is arguably the opposite of what one should do.

Oh, and for reference, the last solo Dynamis run I did (using basically the above gear set) I had 24.6% crit rate on EP mobs; last duo, I had 26.7%; last trio on DC mobs had me at 23%.

With 4% from legs, that's around 19%-21% from base+dDex, which means I was sitting at about +45 dDex, right in the middle of the sweet spot. I'm Taru, so an Elvaan would be at +42, while a Mithra would be at +53. Taru, Galka and Mithra would be getting about 5% crit rate from AF3+2 hands, while Elvaan would only be getting about 3%.

Granted that's only a couple samples, but it's something that's been on my mind when trying to figure out new gear sets.

Just parsed a Dynamis run with 4/5 Thaumas, got 25.5% crit rate. Subtract 5 from merits, 5 from base, 8 from Rancorous and Nefarious, and you're at 7.5% crit rate from dDEX and whatever amount of aftermath. Will do a Love Torque over Nefarious tomorrow to nail down some AGI values for Dynamis DCs. Or maybe Ocelomeh +1 head, though that could add too much DEX...

For reference, Nom/AF2+2 was 21.33%.

Are you also Taru, Stani?

What are some good body options to hold me over until I get AF3? Currently using a Velox Harness right now, just finished getting THF to 99. I'm a little too cheap for a Mustela Harness, wondering if anything else is better than Velox.

Whatever gets you to haste cap, at least in Aby where you don't need to worry about acc or stuff. rapparee harness comes to mind (and more importantly, it looks pretty neat and doesn't flatten your female char's chest if you play a female char). It's old, it's free, and it gives you more haste to play around with on other slots.

If you show your general tp set it'll be easier to figure out an optimal temporary set until you get af3.

P.s. THF AF3 Body seals are pretty easy to come by. Just camp Gamayun, the Garuda like T2 VNM in Aby Graub, or ask people camping it to upgrade their Abyssite to T3 if you can team up for them and eventually offer an upgrade pop if you get one yourself. AF3+1 would then be your upgrade to Rapparee.

Completely forgot about Rapparee, thanks.

Here's what I currently have. Just something I whipped together with leftovers today, going to start seal farming this week:



edit: Apparently this does put me at Haste cap anyway. Should I go for Rapparee and replace some other item?

An immediate, and fairly strong improvement to your build would come from Rancor collar and its' +5% crit rate boost.

Aside from that, I think it would be most convenient to simply finish upgrading your AF3 and then reconfigure your whole build to a more basic standard build.

This is a pretty common set that does not require advanced gear such as neo nyzul and can be easily obtained solo/duo:

There is a cool triple attack ring too, i'd sub that in .
Triple Dagger is fun to off hand
and the Qillin neck piece.

Ah I didn't even know that Demonry Ring existed, looks nice. Thanks for the advice, guess I'll get started on Dyna and AF3 right away.

This is what I tp in when I need TH to proc since it cannot proc on a DA/TA/QA hit. Capped haste and as much dual wield as possible really helps while taking off all DA/TA/QA. Also tossing in a really low delay dagger for thf knife will make your attack rounds as fast as possible. When I am worrying more about DD, I do the usual haste/DA/TA/QA setups.

Am I missing anything? I use this setup for decent challenge mobs in dynamis. Use twashtar 85, soon to be 90. Have 12 str/dex merits and capped critical hit rate merits. Wondering what this nets me for critical hit rate.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/273144

True, but you are also trying to do some damage while proccing. Could mainhand a low delay dagger and a shield too, but you don't see that around much anymore.

This is my DD tp set. only 24% haste, but the extra TA and TA damage should make up for it.

Dynamis DC results so far, Hume 99THF/DNC with 106 base DEX, RCB, Acids, and the following TP set:



Baseline (henceforth set1): 21.33% overall, 21.00% on mob A, 22.20% on mob B, 21.05% mob C. Subtract 5% merit, 5% base, 5% Rancorous, 3% Nefarious, and you get 3.33 from dDEX+aftermath, 3%A, 4.2%B, 3.05%C.

Substitute in Thaumas hands and feet (henceforth set2): 25.53%, 24.80% mobA, 24.32% mob B, 27.97% mob C. Subtract 5% merit, 5% base, 5% Rancorous, 3% Nefarious, and you get 7.53% from dDEX+AM, 6.80%A, 6.32%B, 9.97%C.

Substitute in Thaumas hands and feet and a Love Torque (henceforth set3): 25.79% overall, 24.74 mob A, 27.03% mob B, 25.20% mob C. Subtract 5% merit, 5% base, 5% Rancorous, and you get 10.79% from dDEX+AM, 9.74%A, 12.03%B, 10.2%C.

Set1 has 120 DEX, set2 138, set3 143. Adding 18 DEX going from set1 to set2 added 4.20% crit rate. Adding 5 further DEX with set3's Love Torque gained only 3%. Assuming that the data is not borked, that would imply that set3's Love Torque only just entered the sweet spot, as it did not provide a full 5 crit rate, but also provided more than the 1% crit rate that would be gained from breaking just the 29 or 39 dDEX tier.

The evidence so far is both polluted by me not willing to stop using Mercy for the sake of this test, and the fact that it doesn't fit the dDEX model, which I assume is based on a much larger sample size. Will do Ocelomeh Head +1 tomorrow to see if that will finally cap out dDEX, but for now I'm willing to call it on 4/5 Thaumas being guranteed dDEX sweet spot on Dyna DC's and the like.

Granted I didn't attempt more than a cursory search, but what happened to the supposed hidden effect of AF3 gloves having a hidden increase to the chance of a TH level increase?

If that is still an accepted "fact" then should they not be a more widely used piece in a lot of these sets? I'm thinking specifically in Dynamis btw.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Raider%27s_Armlets_%2B2

You should add 'check the wiki' before 'cursory search' or 'post on forum' come to mind. That is literally where people go to write down the facts you're looking for.