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[Dev] Corsair Adjustments
Bismarck.Eburo
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1377
By Bismarck.Eburo 2012-01-05 16:49:24
Woohoo Gallant's Roll!
Ragnarok.Afania
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2012-01-05 17:29:29
From official forum reps:
Quote: The damage reduction from Gallant's Roll is not a percentage, the reduction value is the number itself. (Maximum 30 damage)
In case you didn't know, you can stack this with Phalanx making it possible to increase the amount of damage reduced.
In regards to those of you asking about a third roll, we haven't solidified a specific adjustment timing so I don't have any new information for you guys at the moment. But when I do, you bet I'll be giving you guys an update!
Mass pulling mobs in Abyssea for cleave burn with a WAR(pair with TP roll to get TP)! =D
VIP
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-11 18:03:14
Update on topic today:
01-11-2012 05:54 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Greetings all
I have some additional info on corsair adjustments based on some questions from the Japanese forum to share with you all.
Quote: Though Drachen Roll gives magic attack bonus to pets, this does not affect wyvern’s attack breath, and in the case of battles that are dependent on a pet’s magic attack, a dragoon will not be in the party for the bonus. In order to allow for better use of the job bonuses, we are currently looking into swapping the stats on Drachen Roll and Puppet Roll. We are making preparations so that this can be implemented onto the test server along with the other roll adjustments.
[Pre-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
[Post-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Quote: Would it be possible to edit the effect of Blitzer’s Roll?
Currently, if you cast Blitzer’s Roll, the amount of TP gained is reduced and if attackers use store TP it’s not really possible to get the full benefit. Could you edit this so that the effect does not affect TP gain and reduces attack delay like Haste and March? The effect of Blitzer’s Roll is the same as Martial Arts as it reduces the attack duration, so the amount of TP gained is affected. We do not plan on changing the effect to make it similar to Haste/March as these spells have an influence on magic.
Quote: Can you make it possible to cast rolls on a single party member? It could have a 15 second recast and no Double-up possibility. If we had this, it would make it possible to use all of the hard to use pet rolls, etc. It would also be possible to put the new Gallant’s Roll on the tank only. In regards to single target rolls, I will address this and the concept of corsair as a set.
Corsairs have the ability to support party members with their rolls similar to bards; however, while bards spend most of their time during battle supporting party members with songs, corsairs don’t spend the same amount of time on support and were made to have a surplus of time so they can attack. This is why the effect duration and recast time on rolls have been set to be longer than songs.
While it is definitely possible to look into single target effects in order to effectively use rolls, the functionality of corsair would most likely be largely changed due to the increased frequency of roll usage, so we would like to continue to look into this while carefully considering whether it is really appropriate for the corsair style that we envisioned.
Quote: The enhanced cure potency for cures received is good with waltzes too, right? Unfortunately the effect from Healer’s Roll will not enhance the potency of waltzes.
While they are similar effects, the stats are separate and this is the roll for white mages. | |
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Phoenix.Sehachan
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-01-11 18:07:11
Swapping the properties of Drachen and Puppet makes sense...but still won't be used.
*ignores Blitzer part*
I agree on the rest, I couldn't care less about Pianissimo. Just give us the 3rd roll you promised though.
[+]
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 294
By Sylph.Agentblade 2012-01-11 18:09:45
Well...... While it is definitely possible to look into single target effects in order to effectively use rolls (BUT) whether it is really appropriate for the corsair style that we envisioned.
*Edit: Forgot the LoL in there...
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-01-11 18:35:10
All they need is a 3rd roll slot obtainable through a ring or something. Make it rare need be.
A 3rd roll slot makes alot of less used rolls viable and avoids putting COR into a situation where it has to Pianissimo rolls onto people which eats into DD / WS time.
[+]
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 36553
By Asura.Ludoggy 2012-01-11 18:38:26
If cor gets a third roll it should be through an annoying Trial weapon.
Cor has been getting nice DD updates for awhile.
By Artemicion 2012-01-11 18:39:57
Am I still crazy for thinking capped Winning Streak is good?
Or am I simply giving into SE's stubbornness and using it as a means to optimize time frames of DDing with minimal re-rolls?
I understand the highest priority is keeping 11s a steadfast standard, but it's the constant act of rolling and using job abilities one after the other that digs a hole in your DPS capacity from what I can tell.
Phoenix.Sehachan
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-01-12 02:33:14
Am I still crazy for thinking capped Winning Streak is good?
Or am I simply giving into SE's stubbornness and using it as a means to optimize time frames of DDing with minimal re-rolls?
I understand the highest priority is keeping 11s a steadfast standard, but it's the constant act of rolling and using job abilities one after the other that digs a hole in your DPS capacity from what I can tell. Not having Fold at your disposal hurts much more than Steak merits. No one has perfect luck and if you roll ***and don't erase it you're wasting time. You can argue on not giving a damn about Loaded Deck(but still I don't feel like ignoring it since without it RD is 95% useelss). It's not like Steak makes the rolls last forever or makes it faster to put 'em on, you'll still need 1 minute for them, if it was able to shorten PR recast as well then it would be more valuable.
5/5 Snake Eye doesn't even need an argument.
If cor gets a third roll it should be through an annoying Trial weapon.
Cor has been getting nice DD updates for awhile. The difference is that bard can cycle through songs at a fast pace and change them on the fly accordingly, whereas cor isn't able to do this due to the long shared recast timer on all rolls.
Quetzalcoatl.Crystalchan
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1184
By Quetzalcoatl.Crystalchan 2012-01-12 02:47:26
The difference is that bard can cycle through songs at a fast pace and change them on the fly accordingly, whereas cor isn't able to do this due to the long shared recast timer on all rolls. I hated going to cor on anything that had dispelga, so frustrating :( I wish phantom roll had a shorter recast :\
VIP
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-18 19:33:40
Update on topic today sorry for the delay:
01-18-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Dearest corsairs,
Just wanted to deliver some feedback that was being discussed on the Japanese forums in regards to Quick Draw and Rolls.
Quote: Personally, I would like to focus on Phantom Roll + Quick Draw + Weapon Skills.
(With the current system for Phantom Roll)
What is currently severely lacking is the number of charges for Quick Draw.
I would like this adjusted so that it would be possible to pull off something like the following rotation: Roll→2 Draws → Roll → 2 Draws…→Weapon Skill → Roll…
As such, I would like the number of charges for Quick Draw to be increased to about 6. Increasing the number of charges will lead to an increase in damage dealt over the same time span, so this is something we have to look into very carefully.
Since Quick Draw is an ability, it can be used quickly and there is not much down time, which means that it is more convenient than ranged attacks and it is possible to deal as much damage as a weapon skill, based on how it is used. If the number of charges is simply increased, corsairs would have more attacking power than rangers.
If we do end up increasing the number of charges, we would have to nerf its effects to maintain balance. Whether or not it would be worth nerfing the effects to increase the number of charges is an issue that we are investigating with the help of your feedback.
In addition, we plan on adding enfeebling effects to Quick Draw in the enfeebling spell adjustments we have planned, so please look forward to these changes as well. | |
Phoenix.Sehachan
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-01-19 04:31:58
QD enfeebles yay! Been waiting forever for that!
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Serveur: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2168
By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2012-01-19 04:41:20
Update on topic today sorry for the delay:
01-18-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Dearest corsairs,
Just wanted to deliver some feedback that was being discussed on the Japanese forums in regards to Quick Draw and Rolls.
Quote: Personally, I would like to focus on Phantom Roll + Quick Draw + Weapon Skills.
(With the current system for Phantom Roll)
What is currently severely lacking is the number of charges for Quick Draw.
I would like this adjusted so that it would be possible to pull off something like the following rotation: Roll→2 Draws → Roll → 2 Draws…→Weapon Skill → Roll…
As such, I would like the number of charges for Quick Draw to be increased to about 6. Increasing the number of charges will lead to an increase in damage dealt over the same time span, so this is something we have to look into very carefully.
Since Quick Draw is an ability, it can be used quickly and there is not much down time, which means that it is more convenient than ranged attacks and it is possible to deal as much damage as a weapon skill, based on how it is used. If the number of charges is simply increased, corsairs would have more attacking power than rangers.
If we do end up increasing the number of charges, we would have to nerf its effects to maintain balance. Whether or not it would be worth nerfing the effects to increase the number of charges is an issue that we are investigating with the help of your feedback.
In addition, we plan on adding enfeebling effects to Quick Draw in the enfeebling spell adjustments we have planned, so please look forward to these changes as well. | |
If you thought rdm was coming back ... lol nope..
Phoenix.Sehachan
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-01-19 04:41:37
About the other thing, I don't want more charges for nerfed damage. What they should do is changing the recast merits from 2 to 5 or 4 seconds.
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Bismarck.Snprphnx
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2701
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2012-01-19 04:41:51
So they might give us another QD use, but lessen or remove the added debuffs?
I can live with that.
By Artemicion 2012-01-19 04:42:28
About the other thing, I don't want more charges for nerfed damage. What they should do is changing the recast merits from 2 to 5 or 4 seconds.
With the already high accuracy and utility for light based sleep, and dispel, I would gladly accept lowered damage for more charges and/or decreased recasts.
Bismarck.Helel
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1335
By Bismarck.Helel 2012-01-19 05:24:08
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »So they might give us another QD use, but lessen or remove the added debuffs?
I can live with that.
No? They specifically said that "If the number of charges is simply increased, corsairs would have more attacking power than rangers." Obviously they are referring to the damage dealt by QD, not the enfeebling effects.
I don't see the problem with this actually, as long as they allow /cor to have access to the same number of charges.
Ragnarok.Afania
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2012-01-19 06:16:49
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »So they might give us another QD use, but lessen or remove the added debuffs?
I can live with that.
No? They specifically said that "If the number of charges is simply increased, corsairs would have more attacking power than rangers." Obviously they are referring to the damage dealt by QD, not the enfeebling effects.
I don't see the problem with this actually, as long as they allow /cor to have access to the same number of charges.
Considering QD also gives TP, this will also greatly increase the WS frequency with more charges.
Also RNG subbing COR for QD is gimping SJ, since COR can still /WAR or /SAM for dmg and still has all the QD charges, that's not really the same.
By Fupafighters 2012-01-19 06:23:11
Can someone explain the process of 4 rolls cycle? Im newer to corsair and want to know almost everything that can benefit me. I get a feeling im going to be on corsair alot until amano is finished because people dont want my samurai for some reason lol...so i might as well pimp cor out and get used to it for now.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1360
By Odin.Creaucent 2012-01-19 06:23:33
Wish people would stop it with these stupid ideas QD is fine a it is depending on NMs its 500-700 damage with a 45 sec recast i cant fire shot before every wildfire since tp comes stupidly quick in vw but idc its nice and easy damage/tp. If they do add more charges/lower recast i can expect damage to be reduced to ~100 and less or no tp gain like it was before.
Edit: a 4 roll cycle isnt really used much any more but it consists of 2 dd rolls on melees and 2 mage rolls normally refresh + mab or fast cast. Cor is mostly in the dd only party keeping up tacts/misers with armageddon cor is an awesome dd and should be used as such. A 4 roll cycle takes away a lot of dd time but them stuff situational. If mages want refresh they can sub rdm and use temp items if in vw.
[+]
Ragnarok.Afania
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2012-01-19 06:26:16
Can someone explain the process of 4 rolls cycle? Im newer to corsair and want to know almost everything that can benefit me. I get a feeling im going to be on corsair alot until amano is finished because people dont want my samurai for some reason lol...so i might as well pimp cor out and get used to it for now.
Back at lv 75 cap or pre 75 EXP pt when mages still needs MP, CORs run backline to do 1~2 mage rolls, then run to frontline and do 2 DD rolls. By the time when mage roll almost wears you run back to do 1~2 mage roll again.
By Fupafighters 2012-01-19 06:28:21
explain how they do these other 2 rolls lol...fold only gets rid of one >.< do you just have to time it so the 4th roll has like 2 minutes or what lol?
Phoenix.Sehachan
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-01-19 06:33:58
Eh? Stand near mages and roll evoker/fastcast/mab/whatever, then go near the dds and do chaos/fighter. Rolls done, position yourself to dd some till mages roll wear off and start cycle again. What's so hard to understand?
By Fupafighters 2012-01-19 06:38:05
Eh? Stand near mages and roll evoker/fastcast/mab/whatever, then go near the dds and do chaos/fighter. Rolls done, position yourself to dd some till mages roll wear off and start cycle again. What's so hard to understand? 1 second lol...i need to do something... maybe i have a glitch or somethin. ill explain in a few haha
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6170
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2012-01-19 06:39:41
tbqh, when I read the update notes I thought:
"Hmm... looks like SE noticed Wildfire CORs. Nerf INC!"
It looks like they are going to nerf quick draw damage in exchange for letting you store more charges. They crossed a dumb idea with a basic misunderstanding of how the job works and shat this post out as a warning.
You know the real irony of this? I can't imagine the good old COR/WHM JPs ever requesting this for game-play reasons. It is probably purely so they can cycle the 6 shots quickly when COR JA procs come up in Voidwatch, assuming they even requested it.
Bismarck.Sylow
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-01-19 06:44:09
TBH, reducing QD damage by half and doubling the number of charges wouldn't be all that bad now that Quick Draw gives TP.
As long as they evened out so that the damage over time is the same as it is now (or greater), I think I'd almost prefer the smaller QDs with more charges.
By Fupafighters 2012-01-19 06:44:25
Eh? Stand near mages and roll evoker/fastcast/mab/whatever, then go near the dds and do chaos/fighter. Rolls done, position yourself to dd some till mages roll wear off and start cycle again. What's so hard to understand? 1 second lol...i need to do something... maybe i have a glitch or somethin. ill explain in a few haha Ok heres the deal lol...just did some stupid testing on PC lol...my xbox isnt working right for cor lol. I started cor on xbox and i always tried using 3 rolls but they didnt overwrite and didnt let me use another after i used 2 lol...but i downloaded FF on PC and i guess it lets me...so now i know that about corsair lol...my xbox has a glitch where i guess it doesnt overwrite rolls -.- awesome haha. since my xbox didnt let me use another roll with 2 active..even if they were different rolls, i didnt know u could do that because i recently started cor when i was on xbox lol...woooooooooow.
01-03-2012 02:28 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Howdy!
It’s been quite some time since we announced that we would be revamping corsair’s Phantom Roll effects, but I have some additional information about the planned changes.
※Currently these features are in-development and testing and are subject to change.
As long as there are no major development/testing problems, we are planning to introduce these changes on the test server middle or late January.
As usual, please let us know your feedback! | |
01-05-2012 02:06 PM | Rukkirii | Community Rep | |
| Odin.Mirabelle said: One question about the new Gallant's roll. Are the values a flat amount of -DT (like phalanx) or a percentage (like -DT gear)? The damage reduction from Gallant's Roll is not a percentage, the reduction value is the number itself. (Maximum 30 damage)
In case you didn't know, you can stack this with Phalanx making it possible to increase the amount of damage reduced.
In regards to those of you asking about a third roll, we haven't solidified a specific adjustment timing so I don't have any new information for you guys at the moment. But when I do, you bet I'll be giving you guys an update! | |
01-11-2012 05:54 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Greetings all
I have some additional info on corsair adjustments based on some questions from the Japanese forum to share with you all.
Quote: Though Drachen Roll gives magic attack bonus to pets, this does not affect wyvern’s attack breath, and in the case of battles that are dependent on a pet’s magic attack, a dragoon will not be in the party for the bonus. In order to allow for better use of the job bonuses, we are currently looking into swapping the stats on Drachen Roll and Puppet Roll. We are making preparations so that this can be implemented onto the test server along with the other roll adjustments.
[Pre-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
[Post-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Quote: Would it be possible to edit the effect of Blitzer’s Roll?
Currently, if you cast Blitzer’s Roll, the amount of TP gained is reduced and if attackers use store TP it’s not really possible to get the full benefit. Could you edit this so that the effect does not affect TP gain and reduces attack delay like Haste and March? The effect of Blitzer’s Roll is the same as Martial Arts as it reduces the attack duration, so the amount of TP gained is affected. We do not plan on changing the effect to make it similar to Haste/March as these spells have an influence on magic.
Quote: Can you make it possible to cast rolls on a single party member? It could have a 15 second recast and no Double-up possibility. If we had this, it would make it possible to use all of the hard to use pet rolls, etc. It would also be possible to put the new Gallant’s Roll on the tank only. In regards to single target rolls, I will address this and the concept of corsair as a set.
Corsairs have the ability to support party members with their rolls similar to bards; however, while bards spend most of their time during battle supporting party members with songs, corsairs don’t spend the same amount of time on support and were made to have a surplus of time so they can attack. This is why the effect duration and recast time on rolls have been set to be longer than songs.
While it is definitely possible to look into single target effects in order to effectively use rolls, the functionality of corsair would most likely be largely changed due to the increased frequency of roll usage, so we would like to continue to look into this while carefully considering whether it is really appropriate for the corsair style that we envisioned.
Quote: The enhanced cure potency for cures received is good with waltzes too, right? Unfortunately the effect from Healer’s Roll will not enhance the potency of waltzes.
While they are similar effects, the stats are separate and this is the roll for white mages. | |
01-18-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Dearest corsairs,
Just wanted to deliver some feedback that was being discussed on the Japanese forums in regards to Quick Draw and Rolls.
Quote: Personally, I would like to focus on Phantom Roll + Quick Draw + Weapon Skills.
(With the current system for Phantom Roll)
What is currently severely lacking is the number of charges for Quick Draw.
I would like this adjusted so that it would be possible to pull off something like the following rotation: Roll→2 Draws → Roll → 2 Draws…→Weapon Skill → Roll…
As such, I would like the number of charges for Quick Draw to be increased to about 6. Increasing the number of charges will lead to an increase in damage dealt over the same time span, so this is something we have to look into very carefully.
Since Quick Draw is an ability, it can be used quickly and there is not much down time, which means that it is more convenient than ranged attacks and it is possible to deal as much damage as a weapon skill, based on how it is used. If the number of charges is simply increased, corsairs would have more attacking power than rangers.
If we do end up increasing the number of charges, we would have to nerf its effects to maintain balance. Whether or not it would be worth nerfing the effects to increase the number of charges is an issue that we are investigating with the help of your feedback.
In addition, we plan on adding enfeebling effects to Quick Draw in the enfeebling spell adjustments we have planned, so please look forward to these changes as well. | |
01-19-2012 03:30 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep | |
| [dev1069] Corsair Job Adjustments
*This content is currently in development and may differ in the release version.
| |
02-02-2012 04:30 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| As a result of the development team’s investigation as well as feedback we received, we will be once again changing the effect of Gallant’s Roll from “damage reduction” to “increased defense.”
This roll’s defense increase effect will increase a character’s defense by a percentage, so characters with already high defense will benefit largely from this.
As a different idea we looked into “physical damage reduction,” but the effect itself increased by a percentage, which made it not possible to make the effect values very large thus creating the concern that the roll itself wouldn’t be too useful. Paladin’s who have a wealth of damage reduction gear would cap out too easily and attackers/back-line jobs would become disproportionate by having this along with other high defense stats, so we determined this to be an unrealistic route. | |
02-08-2012 05:55 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| There have been some comments from players mentioning that they don’t see the point of defense as a stat, so I’d like to go into some detail on it.
As defense increases over an enemy’s attack power, the amount of damage reduced gradually tapers off. If the enemy you are fighting is lower level and your defense is way higher, it becomes more difficult to gain large benefits even if you increase your defense.
In instances where your defense is reduced via an enemy action, where your character’s defense would normally be higher than an enemy’s attack power, and the gap between the two is narrowed, the amount of damage being reduced will start to vary largely. This shows that you’ll take more damage when your defense is lowered, giving meaning to the value of your defense.
Another easy way of feeling the effects of defense is to face off against an even match enemy and compare the damage received with your armor equipped and off.
Since the effects of defense increase as defense is stacked, the benefits are by no means small, so it would be really helpful if we could receive feedback with this in mind.
For reference, Mocchi provided some test data.
Setup
Naked/with Defender active/with Defender active + food effects (black curry bun)
Results
Naked (Defense 460): 245 damage
Defender (Defense 575): 216 damage
Defender + food (Defense 663): 197 damage
Depending on the situation, the numbers may not be the same, but this is simply intended to serve as reference. | |
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