The Last Dance: Gearing Paradigms For A New Age

Also, you're losing 1 base damage 75% of the time, 2 25% of the time, for a tradeoff of 8 acc and 8 attack.

You need the Acc especially.

Although, I'm confused where the 22 attack is coming from? Where's the other 7?

Sorry, I was confusing it for Oneiros Cluster. -5 STP is just as bad though, imop.

this

i cannot see how you are getting that much of a gain in DPS from even 22 attack anyways on mobs where your Fstr isnt even capped on, you would get maybe 2 extra dmg per hit and you sacrifice the gain of wsing faster.



forgive me since i do not go to vw on dnc often, most of the time im on sch, is accuracy really THAT bad?

Would you agree or disagree with dropping Rajas for Mars in Voidwatch. Imo losing the STP there isn't an issue due to regain, and Acc/Attack are more important than fSTR.

with our current set dropping 5 stp does not affect our Xhit, which is primarily why i didnt say anything regarding store tp when he dropped his raja's

Well, food and (iirc) stalwarts are % bonuses, so you're getting more than 15 attack out of it in VW at least.

its fine i just didnt know dnc was that in-accurate in vw.

It's not, actually, it's as accurate (if not more accurate) than most 2Hers, but you're not going to hit 95% in your Abyssea gear, either.

We've got Conserve TP, we get hit, we have Tactical Parry, we hit an odd number of times, etc. Losing 5 STP reduces your WS frequency. Whether it's "more important" than 7 Attack is up to you, but acting like your X-hit on Dancer matters most of the time is a little laughable. The only time STP really doesn't matter is when it doesn't change the TP/hit you get.

I mean, the variance in our WS return (even without Conserve TP) is about as large as our dagger swings. You see ~-2 to +3 hits on DE, Evisc, or Exenterator with all our DA/TA options.

WS Frequency is kind of Weird in VW anyway, Dusty Wings forever!

then thats fine i could see how that would work



i still want to see some pretty ironed out math for what i asked about earlier, cause the STP argument just isnt happening. the gain from tonic and food would still put the gain from the bomblet at a very minute level.

And here I thought the most controversial part of my VW set would be the Rancor Mantle, not the Bomblet!

then why did you just justify the -stp being bad when it's apparently laughable to worry about then?

Well, in Voidwatch I'd hopefully assume you have Marches, in which case the whole issue is irrelevant.

I would assume you don't have marches.
Most of the time there's only one BRD, so it's probably better to split the BRD + DNC into separate DD parties, assuming there are enough DDs to do so.

this, brd is never in the same party as the dnc, its amusing to assume otherwise

I haven't really gone through all the new gear enough to put together the "ideal" march TP set, yet. Not because I don't want to, but because I so rarely have marches, and Delkfutt's is killing me softly.

It's laughable to worry about your particular X-hit, because the odds that it'll play out the way you've planned is relatively low. It's not worthless to worry about the amount of TP you get per hit.

Example from 1H X-hit build land:
* You start with 15 TP, because that's what a 6-hit Dancing Edge return is for your build.
* You add 5.7 TP to it until you break 100 TP.
* You have a 15-hit build.
* If you add another 5 STP and suddenly get 5.9 TP/hit back, you still have a 15-hit build so why would you do that?

Example from reality:
* You start with an amount of TP between 13 and 18.
* You add 5.7 TP onto it until you break 100 TP
* At this point, you have a 15~16 hit build, even assuming Conserve TP, getting hit, and Tactical Parry don't exist.
* If you add another 5 STP and suddenly get 5.9 TP/hit back, you have a 14-16 hit build. Lo and behold, you benefitted from adding STP.

thats really just proving my point though, you are relying on A) Save TP B) mob hitting you to affect your TP gain where the change is minute if at all with the loss of 5 STP where that wouldnt even matter given haste would increase WS frequency to begin with.

I have a general dagger question. Basically, what should I be using? I'm currently doing Oyonos (sp?) and Verus and I really like the haste of Oyonos, but I figured there could be something with higher DPS than Verus. I /really/ don't want a Twastar because of the way it looks, and I'm doing Ukon for war atm and I really don't want to have to double farm everything. I'm also doing two eva Kila's but I'll probably stop at the 90 version. 40 geodes + the avatar stones is just stupid to me. Maybe WoE dagger? Str?

No, you're relying on the fact that we have >30% DA and less than 100% accuracy. The variability in our WS TP returns is near the TP we get per hit. Additionally, it's not uncommon to receive TP from some other source.

Haste does increase WS frequency, but it's fairly irrelevant. My off-the-cuff statement was that losing 5 STP was about as bad as losing 7 attack. Also, keep in mind that I assumed every Haste value was the minimum. In reality you're likely to gain less than 10/1024 from the Pinion with our setup.

It's a waste of time or gil. Don't bother with it.

Unequip Oynos after haste proc (it takes time to do so, obligatory), your best options then minus VW drops would probably then be STR dagger x2, although this limits your usefulness to not-VW, pretty much. Which is fine, you'll have Ukon WAR for that ...

yet it's still an improvement over our current setup, just a minor one.


also remember this is only for when in saber dance, so i DO expect 30%~ DA.

IMHO, Running Saber Dance full-time in VW is asking to have your cheeky DNC smile rubbed into the pavement. So at least there ...

even then i would only have saber up if i had fanatics or something of that nature.

TO be perfectly honest, I would love someone to prove that the Hasty Pinion is better than the bomblet.

I would pack my ***up and get my *** out of Delkfutt's forever. BUT ALAS.

you would still use the bomblet for your normal TP set if hasty was valid. unless nomka's would win over brego's.

God, I had hope of freedom.

I don't know why I bothered doing math on this instead of just going to bed, but the distribution for Exenterator with 95% accuracy and 34.5% DA/3% TA is:

<4 hits: 1%
4 hits: 9.6%
5 hits: 41.7%
6 hits: 35.2%
7 hits: 11.1%
8 hits: 1.4%

So what return do you pick for your X-hit? The 4-hit one? If so, wouldn't 5 STP let the 7-hit return drop a swing to 100TP? The real answer to this is just to plug it in to Motenten's sheet, because he has these probability tables already set up. It is still going to overestimate the difference between different amounts of STP, though, because it doesn't include forms of defensive TP gain (and reasonably can't).

It's not like we're on Warrior and assuming 2-hit Raging Rushes with a weapon that gives us 20 TP per hit.

I'm off and won't be back until the 27th, so good luck guys!