THF Gear Advice

Meant to say Justicier's+Anguinus

i'd say depends what you are fighting.. since its Exenterator i guess outside Abyssea... and what would you do on THF outside Abyssea...? Dynamis! so AGI pieces wins.

Edit: Just downloaded the spreadsheet real quick and tossed those into it (useing a normal Exenterator set w/o any Neo-Nyzul gear) used DC Dynamis mobs and it is Agineck+Crudelis, useing higher level target attacks wins more

Anything in the newest patch for us?

There are hands that increase critical hit damage, but that's all I could see. I'll edit with a link if I find it before someone else.

Murzim Manopolas
DEF:30 HP+35 MP+35 Attack+5
Haste+4% Increases critical hit damage

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/111230-6-13-12-Update-.DAT-Mining-Findings

There are some other things that may have more fringe uses. Ranged acc gear for example.

Murzim Cosciales
DEF:49 HP+36 MP+36
Ranged Accuracy+16
Ranged Attack+7
Increases "Rapid Shot" activation rate

One more edit - for shadow casting
Enif Cosciales
DEF:49 HP+40 MP+40
Accuracy+6 Attack+6
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Haste+5%

Yeah alternative haste hands to Brego's or alternative although most likely inferior ta/ws hands to augmented heca/+1

Murzim Manopolas
DEF:30 HP+35 MP+35 Attack+5
Haste+4% Increases critical hit damage

Beaten, just.

I doubt anyone knows yet, but what's the crit damage increase on those? Though for SA I imagine heca will still win due to the dex, unless you don't want the slow% for that attack round.

For SA you should always use Raider's Armlets +2. It could be interesting for TA+WS though.

Oh wow, I don't know where Heca came from @_@ af3 for SA ><

Best set until Thaumas legs and I switch into those and back to AF3+2 hands?

Id guess swap leg for thaumas and hand for Murzim then you've got what Im aiming for.

Apparently you're didn't read what I typed, but thanks I guess. Don't see myself getting Neo-Limbus atm so I'll just assume what I posted is fine then

For situations when you don't have marches, AF3+2 is going to win, yeah.

How did what I said imply I didnt read what you said >.> I was just paraphrasing the leg swap and giving you another possible hand alternative.

Heres my planned build (daggers/neck vary on situation). AF3+2 hands prob better or situationally at times not 100% sure.

In the context of Dynamis DCs and other fodder, I find this to be untrue. I'll work from this baseline set:



1. I use Acid Bolts when I pull things I can stick the defense down on. Add a level 1 Box Step in the case of Dynamis, and you're looking at a mob with -17.5% defense. With a Mandau/Fire Thokcha/RCB up, you'll be able to cap attack without AF3+2 Hands. So I can ignore the Attack.

P.S. Why do hardly any THFs use Acids... Getting TP when you pull is great! And then you have capped cRatio on fodder! \(^.^)/

2. The baseline set is at dDEX=20 for Dyna DC. I won't blindly quote the spreadsheet so far as to say that makes the AF3+2 hands provide zero bonus to critical hit rate, but it will only be providing 1%~ if the AF3+2 hands are your only step towards a dDEX/Crit set.

3. Even if you go for a dDEX/Crit build (baseline set with Ocelomeh +1, Nefarious Collar, AF3+2 Hands, Rancorous Mantle, AF3+2 Legs, Athos Feet = 49 dDEX, 26 Haste), you're sacrificing TP gain from DA/TA for Crits, which hurts your WS frequency. I can get a dDEX/Crit build to catch up to the baseline set in melee DPS, but its overall DPS is lower because TP gain slows. Not by much, mind you, under 2%.

4. The better your WS damage, the more an already competitive DA/TA focused set wins out over dDEX/Crit in overall DPS.

5. No spreadsheet can really calculate this, but in the real world, a DA/TA set will get you your TP earlier than a dDEX/Crit build will, meaning the mob won't be as likely to unstagger before your SAWS comes.

6. AF3+2 set bonus with 2/5 AF3 is a 2% activation rate, which the spreadsheet spat out as a 1.5% damage boost to the baseline set from set bonus alone.

Your post isn't really addressing my quoted comment since you've mixed it with several other arguments. I'll try to clarify.


First, you're making the argument that THF should be using Acid Bolts always in Dyna, which is already changing the item set which I was responding to. Obviously this is going to have several other implications which you went on to point out. In an attempt to answer this question in isolation, one must ask whether or not 3% delay reduction beats 12.5% enemy defense down. For this we compare the ranged slot by itself.

Using the spreadsheet and assuming the gear set above (with Nomkahpa), Haste Samba, Haste (I swap Oynos) and one Box Step (5% def down) with no ranged weapon at all, my DPS with only spamming Exenterator is 279.716. If I use Raider's Boomerang, it goes up to 291.91, thus the boomerang is providing us with an approximate boost of 4.35% in overall DPS. We can confirm the spreadsheet is accurate here ourselves. Our delay per weapon before Dual Wield without the boomerang would be floor((176+190)/2 * (1 - .3)) = 128 and with the Boomerang it would be floor((176+190)/2 * (1 - .33)) = 122, for an increase of 128/122 -> 4.9% melee DoT. Since WS accounts for part of our damage on THF, the overall impact on DPS is slightly less.

To look at Ziska's + Acid Bolts, the spreadsheet doesn't model these so we have to look at it manually. We'll have to first assume that you're pulling since otherwise you wouldn't be getting the tasty def down. So to be fair, this would mean you're pulling with Raider's crossbow as well. The delay of Raider's crossbow is 286 and the combined delay of Ziska is 216+192, so Raider's is 122 less, which amounts to about half of a round of lost damage by switching to Ziska since our weapon delay is 128 without Raider's, which amounts to about 229 damage in my gear sets at ~459 average damage per round. So, minor nit-picking aside, let's look at the attack.

Assuming attack is 745 (my set with RCB) and DC Dyna mobs have 435 defense, we can see that it doesn't take much to cap cRatio. If we hold attack steady, then we need 2 = 745/(435 * (1 - x))) -> 14.3% defense down in order to cap but remember we're already getting 5% from that one Box Step so really we just need 9.3% of the def down from Acid Bolts. If we hold defense steady, then we need 2 = x/(435 * (1 - .05)) -> 827 attack. Raider's Armlets are providing 24 attack (after STR and food, which brings us to the RCB cap, btw) but not surprisingly, we the attack falls short of capping cRatio, leaving it at 1.851.

So then the question is, does the DPS gain of closing out the last bit of cRatio outweigh the lost 4.35% DPS from not using Raider's Boomerang. Using my suggested set temporarily (AF3+2 hands), we are 62 attack short of capping (this number goes down by 18 per each additional Box Step, so we actually cap attack after five Box Steps without Acid Bolts). Thus, the 9.3% defense down of Acid Bolts is roughly equivalent to 62 attack.

Going back to the spreadsheet and using the free form box, we can look at the difference in DPS that 62 attack would make. For my set, here are the reported DPS for different levels of Box Step:
1 Box Step: DPS gain of 298.334 / 277.316 = 1.076
2 Box Steps: DPS gain of 292.232 / 277.316 = 1.054
3 Box steps: DPS gain of 286.13 / 277.316 = 1.032

So we can see that about halfway between 2 and 3 Box Steps, the DPS from Raider's Boomerang is going to start pulling ahead. This is fairly agnostic to whatever your partner (if you have one) is doing since the Box Steps are also helping them equally. Only if your partner has significantly lower attack than you would Acid Bolts be a clear winner, but as it stands, they're more or less equal. And the lost 1/2 round of attacks could arguably tilt the tables towards Raider's although you would be getting more TP back from the Acid Bolt shot than the Raider's Boomerang hit (something to work out another day). If, for some reason you have to re-apply the Acid Bolt, I think Raider's would definitely pull ahead as a clear winner.

Yes, they're only going to give you 1% extra crate but no one labeled using AF3+2 a "dDex/crit set." It's just that 1% more crit is part of what makes it a competitive piece.

This is pretty irrelevant since I haven't seen anyone suggest to build for dDex/crit-- we're trying to build for the highest DPS, whatever that entails.

While I get your point, if we could take this to be true at face value, then we would see Ukon warriors running around with 4-hit builds. One can't simply say "a piece with DA is better if you have a sufficiently strong WS set" without a more thorough evaluation.

This is true but I doubt a THF with the posted set is going to have trouble getting TP in 30 seconds. If you do, you might want to switch to Raider's Boomerang. ;)

I'm seeing it as 1%, but yeah, it's a nice little boost.

Regarding the actual comparison, you're right, I should have been more careful as what I posted was misleading at best. What I really meant was this:

Unless you're getting decent buffs, don't waste your 10mil gil on Nomkahpa because, without buffs, Nomkahpa only wins by 0.02%, making the two pieces essentially equal. This scales up as buffs get better to the point where Nomkahpa wins by 2.4% if you have Haste and Marches, and they win by 2.9% if you add on Embrava.

Edit: I'd also like to point out for the sake of comparison that Thaumas hands beat AF3+2 by 2.2% in the Haste/March/Embrava context, although they actually lose with no buffs (AF3+2 winning by 2%). So the song continues, "the more haste you have, the better it is!"

Why don't I use acid bolts?

<_<

>_>

....

<_>

What am I, made of inventory space?

I've got a similar setup to this. But I was wondering if Demonry ring would be an upgrade to Rajas? Also, if Pil ever decides to drop Toci's for me, should I upgrade hands with Nomhapka (sp?) or Brego? Or anything better?

PS: Dont have access to Thaumas pieces yet.

Edit: Daggers I use for dyna are STR/Oynos. Should I upgrade to Aluh/Oynos or is the current ok? (I'm too lazy to constantly swap daggers when Haste procs)

For outside, both Demonry and Aluh increase your DoT but decrease your WS frequency, resulting in a slight overall DPS loss, so stick to the recommended stuff (Rajas and Fire Thokcha).

Looking to improve my base-line set, above. Nomkahpa Mittens are not an option. There has never been a single one on Cerberus, and if there has, it's never touched the AH. Any insights, bar rancorous mantle?

af2+2 feet beat athos last time I checked.

They might, but I'd have to change my hand-slot in order to accommodate.

The AF2+2 and Emp hands combo win out, even with the uncapped haste. Also surely Rancor collar should win vs Nefarious, Acc+6 and Crit Rate +5.

The spreadsheet shows that 4/5 Thaumas with set bonus wins out over AF2+2 and emp on Dyanmis DC and Fodder, but I don't know if that factors in Emp set bonus, or even the accuracy of the spreadsheet. Is there any validity to this?

If you really want the haste, use both Thaumas hands and feet. You really won't lose anything and you'll gain 3 da.

You can see how much it computes as the set bonus by putting in the stats of the item in the free-form and then comparing that number to when you use the actual piece. Regarding the accuracy, there are bugs sometimes supposedly, although so far I've found none. That being said, you can trace through all the cells yourself and look at all of the formulas if you want to verify something, or use the free form box to estimate DPS boosts individually and then compare that to manual calculations.

I won't go without capped haste, even if it's better DPS, on my base set. Maybe in a modified situational TP set, but never ever on my base set.

Then as stated above you'd be better going with Thaumas 4/5, you gain around 1 dps using that (using food, and on dynamis dc). It's nominal, but if you have the pieces already it's worth switching them around.

For comparisons sake:
Thaumas: 35STR, 32DEX, 105 Attack, 56 Acc and 19% DA in gear, vs
Emp+Athos combo: 35STR, 22DEX, 107 Attack, 64 acc and 16% DA

So you lose next to nothing in the change, but gain 3% DA.

Since I was already faffing around with the spreadsheet I decided to put those both in, assuming weapon, race and food variables are the same your set comes out about 5 overall dps higher on Dynamis DC mobs, whilst Berserk is up. It comes around 1 under with berserk down.

In the more likely scenario that you're subbing dancer, it comes around 3 overall dps under Tikals set, and around 4 under 4/5 Thaumas.

So your set seems to be the superior set in attack capped situations, whereas Tikals and Thaumas 4/5 is better when your attack is uncapped.