Aegis Speculation

60-70% block rate is not a 99% block rate. Enjoy being stunned frequently against Voidwrought, being completely unable to recover if you die against Hahava, and enjoy mitigating virtually nothing noteworthy against Celaeno.

lol'd at 'in a perfect world'. If your stunners cannot handle their jobs, Hahava will be miserable, while Celaeno and Voidwrought will be borderline impossible without multiple tanks. I'll never understand why stunners are so forgivable in the general community. You don't allow tanks who can only handle tanking part of the time, and you certainly don't allow healers who can only handle healing part of the time. Casting one spell in large windows every 30 seconds is not difficult.

Yeah, no.

Ochain blocks everything dangerous that Hahava can do. An Aegis paladin is going to take a significantly harder beating throughout the course of the fight. The only time Aegis could ever be better than Ochain for Hahava is if your stunners are completely incompetent.

Oh yeah, if it were and LS thing and you had a pld w/ Aegis and a pld w/o I'd say focus making the one w/o's Ochain and not the Aegis PLD a toy.

yeah i like to have an alliance of summoners rotating PD and warping to jeuno to pay for COR 2H to reset too.

160m* MDT macro item YO! F the TP loss! derp derp

Um in my 6+ years owning Aegis I can count the times I've been killed by melee attacks on 1 hand.... Including solo tanking t4 voidwatch.... and id say 60% of them were 75 cap vs tiamat, when it could randomly 2 shot on a bad unblocked DA during MS (pre reprisal)

Don't suck at gear swaps, save reprisal for weakness, and congrats you win the game.

The only -usefulness- I can see in owning both shields (other than completions sake) is the additional TP boost from blocking, but lets be serious, its -very- difficult to make CDC really a top dps'er in voidwatch thanks to how godly evasive the mobs are.

Ochain is always going to be the "safer" shield for a base model pld, who doesn't have the years of experience in taking high level crap, cuz lets be honest, 80% of ochain owners never saw a hnm at 75, let alone fought one. The same % is probably true for ochain owners and not having gear swaps outside of a hybrid tank/dd set (sup full af3 and hp rings) and a ws set.

However, ochain in the hands of someone who knows how to play pld and already has aegis will not increase the survivability to the extent of someone who's barely geared on pld, getting ochain. That being said both are awesome shields, both capable of getting the job done, but lets be honest, arguing over which is the better shield is like arguing what would you rather be seen driving in, a ferrari or a lambo.

While Ochain blocking enstun most the time, you make it sound like that enstun some serios buisness lol. Ochain is nice, undeniably, but Aegis isn't in league with it? stop thinkin' you know your ***chief

Not gonna argue over semantics but with a near perfect TP and CDC build (only thing I'm missing is rancor/6dex +attack ring over 7 dex ring) requiring pizza to parse a decent hit rate with capped merits in sword, for the level the monsters are, yes their evasion is absurdly higher than it should be. Show me a ss of 3-5 good CDC's in a row on any T4, and I'll eat my hat.

Also, the damage taken comparison(while hardly relevant to my point) doesn't seem to account for the difference in equipment each shield necessitates. Back, neck, ears, head, and feet all take a hit when you need to supplement a lesser blocking rate.

While Ochain blocking enstun most the time, you make it sound like that enstun some serios buisness lol. Ochain is nice, undeniably, but Aegis isn't in league with it? stop thinkin' you know your ***chief

Just as an addendum to this, I've also yet to see any serious magic damage calculation being done. An additional 45% MDT reduction is not small by any means, but its still only one part of a step-by-step process. The 25/50 MDB, 13/23% magic annulment, and direct phalanx adjustments aren't being taken into account.

There's still a lot of 'well I only ever die to magic damage' going around, along with lots of overlooking that an Ochain PLD will be reducing magic damage to a similarly non-threatening level.

Soooo wut u r saying is Ochain can't block magical dmg that Hahava can do . . and that Aegis is better than Ochain for Hahava ? I didn't know Aegis PLD took a beating from Hahava . . just sayin

He said more of a beating than Ochain. This is true. The DMG comparison was assuming capped block rate on Aegis, the chance of this on a T4 is unlikely, so yeah, an Aegis will take more physical damage than an Ochain. The times Aegis excels over Ochain is during spells, if you do not have adequate stuns, this is not a worry regardless of what shield you use if you have an adequate set up. He didn't say Aegis sucks, just Ochain has more utility.

Gross exaggeration isn't going to make me desist. Refute what I have to say, or feel free to stop reading.

I'm not entirely sure why only one other person in this thread feels it appropriate to discuss this with civility.

In Voidwroughts case, eradicator isn't easy to stun (by players) and usually gets through, thus resulting in weakend status. While Ochain will block the melee dmg, this mob has guite a few magical tricks to his arsenal. Depending on the follow-ups from then forth, an Ochain will be alot more susceptible to death than Aegis.

But hey, Ochain wont likely (tho still possible) be gettin' stunned durin' weakend! thats bound to keep 'em alive.

Learn to on event chief'.

It's cuz you have a Masamune and idk how hard it is to tank Voidwrought on PLD1 :/

Adequate stuns: Stunning TP moves.
Not being able to stun every spell: Quit BLM ?
Having Aegis:"Why did you just stun that spell?"
I don't have a prob solo tanking any T4 I guess the Aegis PLD's u guys play with just need Aegis in an Ochain size :/

Did you just go there?

Yeah, he did.

I use both actually. Why would you not stun spells? Prevents melee taking damage, allowing them to continue DDing, resulting in faster kills. Aegis has more utility when magic damage is a constant, if they're being stunned, obviously Ochain pulls ahead. Spells are only a small % of an enemies overall damage, they usually melee, thus Ochain has an edge. It doesn't make Aegis useless.

I use both actually. Why would you not stun spells? Prevents melee taking damage, allowing them to continue DDing, resulting in faster kills. Aegis has more utility when magic damage is a constant, if they're being stunned, obviously Ochain pulls ahead. Spells are only a small % of an enemies overall damage, they usually melee, thus Ochain has an edge. It doesn't make Aegis useless.

Fanatic's Drink + Aegis

It's not hard to kill them at all tho. The only hard thing about VW is having all the procs, killing takes like 3min >.>

Keep stunning lolspells and he'll build resistance, and idk if your stunners even carry a stun set. Unless you 18-man Hahava and proc him fast to warrant killin' him worthy quickly.

Edit: atleast, spells are lol for aegis

It's not hard to kill them at all tho.

You don't need to stun spells unless a tank is weakened. I don't have an Ochain or an Aegis and I can eat spells in my MDT set with Shell5.