Saber Dance And Gear

So my TP set, w/o my dagger, includes 13% Double Attack (3% from Atheling, 2% from Twilight Belt, 5% from Brutal, 3% from Epona's). I off hand the Parazonium +2 that gives Double Attack +10. This leaves me with 23% DA at all times.

From what I understand DA caps at 50%. So while using Saber Dance some of the gear is being wasted, for a certain amount of time.

Before ranting, I'm assuming that Saber Dance works as 50% inc. for the first minute, 40% for the second, 30% for the third, 20% for the fourth and 10% fifth. This is how I first read that SD worked so please correct me if I am wrong. I know that there has been additional testing since then but I figured you guys would know best.

So assuming that the above is true, during the first minute of SD I'd have 73% DA which caps down to 50%. During the second minute I'd have 63%, and the third minute would be 53%.

Twilight belt and Epona's both serve another purpose (haste, triple attack) so I don't see those as viable options for swapping out; however, the Para+2, Brutal, and Atheling could all be swapped out for better gear during certain minutes of SD. The question is, what?

Without Para+2, Brutal, and Atheling, I'm left with 5% DA. For the first minute of SD you could replace the Para+2, Brutal, and Atheling for other equip to optimize dmg while still capping DA. For the second minute you'd need another 5% to keep cap so you'd put the Brutal back in. During the third minute you'd need another 10% to keep cap so the Para+2 would go back in, and from then out you'd put the Atheling back in and keep everything on until you reapply SD.

I was thinking that a fire Kila+2 would be a fine substitution for the Para+2 during the first two minutes. What about replacements for Brutal and Atheling? I would assume an attack ring in place of Brutal but is there anything better for Atheling?

So I suppose my questions are: what are the best replacements for Para+2, Brutal, and Atheling during certain minutes of SD? Is the old assumption of how SD works true? Am I being too ridiculous with my gear?

Bonus question: 10% Double Attack w/45 dmg and 211 delay vs. STR+9, Attack+20, 44 dmg/190 delay. Which wins for overall damage over time?

Thanks guys! You guys rock for elitest questions like this.

From what I understand, it starts at 50% and devalues to ~20% with every time it procs. This happens fairly quickly due to the fast attack speed of Dancer. I personally would not bother with a specific Saber Dance gear set since Saber Dance goes to about 20% in roughly 30 secs.

Here is a thread discussing it.

Also, here is the wiki link.

Edit: Oh yeah, I have the DA Para as well, so with Saber Dance up, I enjoy the roughly 43% DA rate. (Note /WAR DA apparently does not stack with Saber Dance, but gear does.)

Okay, so a few misconceptions:
1) Double Attack does not cap. I've parsed myself with over a 70% DA rate.
2) Saber Dance is probably time-based decay instead of proc-based, though I'd be hard-pressed to totally prove it. My data just looks better when time-based. Here is the link, and feel free to look at the testing for yourself.

When you re-consider the situation in light of the misconceptions, the problem goes away. You don't need re-gear when you pop Saber Dance, and won't unless we get substantially more Double Attack thrown at us or substantially more competitive back/earring/waist/ring options.

If the rapid decrease is true then you're right, no point in having a "first three minutes of SD" set. I'm at work and can't read the thread about SD right now... so did anyone PROVE that SD works in that fashion?

But yes the 43% at all times (with SD on) is great. Folks that are new or returning to the game always ask how I have Hundred Fists as a DNC :P

I'm still very curious about fire Kila+2 vs. Para+2 though. I can only assume that the Para wins but I haven't done the math for it.

There is testing linked from the pages I linked you to. This is probably going to make it the most clear.

I can't link you to something off BG with the data, I think, but basically the answer is a qualified "yes." I showed that there's an initial spike and a long period of constant DA rate.

If what you said is true about no cap to DA then slap my *** and call me Prishe. This would then bring up another question. DA vs. Haste. Being completely based on the numbers, would adding some DA/TA and losing a bit of haste be more DOT? For example, Calmecac Trousers vs. Charis Tights +2. Losing 2% haste for 2% DA and 2% TA... hard call. For me. Maybe not for you. I'd assume that AF3+2 would win because of all of the other stats on it but JUST DA/TA vs. Haste wise, I wonder which would win?

Edit: I'm thinking about all of the factors of DA/TA vs. Haste. WSing more, hitting more, etc.

Sweet, I'll check it out when I get back home. Thanks man.

If you can lose out on gear Haste without going delay uncapped (like if you're getting double Marches), it might be a good idea to wear Calmecac trousers instead of AF3+2 legs and keep Suppa on or something.

But yeah, DA totally doesn't cap. My parse showed about a 79% DA rate basically just stacking DA gear and Atma on WAR.

15% from trait/merits + 30% from Atma + 31% from gear = 76%, so something was weird about it and in the post I attributed it to the set bonus.

Adding
Adding 1% double attack when you have a base of 0% double attack has more of an impact than say, adding 1% double attack when you have a base of 25%. Haste, on the other hand, has increasing returns and keeps getting better the more you stack it. I'd definitely not take any haste off in favor of DA/TA.

Silly question, but does the double attack +10 effect both hands?

Also, what is the OAT% distribution on the OAT dagger and OA2-4 dagger

It does. The OAT was parsed at around 40% for the level 80 version, and I'm not sure it has been re-parsed since. The OA2-4 was parsed at about 1.7 attacks per round without DA or TA.

Thank you sir. I'm trying to decide which to make.

It's strange, I don't see many DA10% Para around my server. I'd say it's the best DD offhand, esp. with Twash. Anyone think otherwise? I'm talking pure dmg, not "the best for every NM."

It's a good mainhand if you don't have Twashtar, decent as an offhand but other options are likely better.

The main problem with DA Para is its delay. It has high damage, so it is a great main-hand if you do not have Twashtar, but if you do have Twashtar, you want something with lower delay in the off-hand. From what I have read STR Kila, Store TP Fusetto, and TP Bonus Fusetto (works if off-handed) are decent options. Not sure what is "best" though. Mostly personal preference. Before anyone mentions OA2-4 as a good choice, OA2-4 is a waste. Low damage and gets super gimped by Saber Dance.

except kilas and fusettos aren't rank 5

You don't see it because it's incredibly annoying to make :/
I finished Twashtar 85 faster.

Is wrank/fstr your new stat fixation?

You're an adorable Lynx now!

You're right, it did suck. Also it sucks a hell of a lot less than that crappy OA2-4. Bastion was fun to spam though! I finished my Twash faster than the 10%DA just because the latter was just boring to do.

I managed to tweak my mob targets so I could do the TP bonus fusetto partially in sync.

Plantoids x 600 + Evisceration x 500 (Fort K-N)
Peistes x 400 + Lizards Eviscaration Death x 300 (Aby-Mis)

Saved some time, at least.

I understand about the delay being a bit higher but wouldn't the higher base dmg plus the fact that it adds 10% DA still make it out parse the other daggers in terms of dmg? The delay isn't ridiculously higher than the Kilas and the 10% extra chance to double attack seems like it would destroy +20 attack.

I also understand that the 200TP Rudra's (from fusetto) is a lot better than 100TP Rudra's but does that really outweigh the lower dmg from melee?

I wish someone would do some tests and see which off hand has the highest DPS taking their additional stats into consideration.

And yes I know that DNC isn't always about DD. My particular question is, though.

INB4 the version update and that wicked sick VWNM dagger.

not really D: i've always been for having a rank 5 weapon on your main hand

if it means anything both byrth and i offhand ftp 100 fusettos for dmg

I'm still not convinced it's the best option for damage, but I like being able to use Rudra's/seeing big numbers and no one calls me out on it.

I switch out between TPB fusetto+2 and DA Para+2 depending on my mood.

I don't really notice much of an overall difference between the two. EYEBALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL GOOOO.

sleight kukri

best off hand ever, especially for twatwasher

The best offhand DD dagger is going to be situational. I usually swap between STP fusetto+2, atk kila. (not including defensive/utility situations). I expect STP fusetto to be even more useful when/if they give dnc more useful things to do with our tp (wishful thinking).

I've been considering the situations that I'll use a TPB fusetto+2 after the update since it's something I can't have now due to my STP fusetto+2. My current thoughts are:

1. When using Aeolian Edge.
2. When Rudra ws/sc is going to do the majority of my damage for the fight(s).
3. Possibly when I want to do a big opening sc then quickly swap to a better offhand dagger for the situation (like a defensive/utility dagger).

I'm sure I'll think of more after actually having one.

I just rofled everywhere. ::cleans up mess::

i see your sleight kukri and raise you a cinquedea