Sleep Duration Halved On Some Monsters/ares, Have Fun BLM/RDM :]

Sleep is the easiest way everyone have to measure something like this. You know the base duration is 60/90 seconds for everyone, while it's hard to figure out the duration of a bind for example since it varies a lot from one player to another, that's why using sleep is the best way to notice these change. Now I perfectly know that change concerning nuke but also Elegy, Slow and other enfeebling spells as well (bind etc...) Notice how even here people are like "Sleep ain't affected" while it's so easy to measure it, so I'd rather not even talk about Bind, Slow or Poison...

SE just revamped all magic resistance regardless of the level of the mob, only its "family" matters. As for nuke on limbus NW, no major issue here :< Well didn't went past floor 3, alone with gimp sleep it sucked :x

Poison slow elegy.. and to lesser extent gravity bind do have full durations though they especially the ones mobs are resistant are even more effected by gear/merits or ES. For example i often use rdm to get zeni. Before composure I'd always cast phalanx then slow on the sleeping mob cause sure enough had exactly the same duration. Even without enfeebling gear with few exceptions theyd last exactly the same time almost 100% of the time. Pretty much most rdms experienced with solo kiting can tell you posion2 will last 2 min unresisted. As far as all those clowns claiming this is how it should be. Lets apply this to meleeing and see how fair it would be. Your a lvl 75 sam and go out to south gustaberg to try out your new gkat on some skeletons. You wiff 50% of the time and when you do hit its for about 1/2 the expected dmg. You take most your gear off... same acc and dmg... You get fully naked with 0 hand-to-hand skill and now your acc is over 80% and your doing significantly higher dmg. Now imagine your fighting an HNM and all weapon types are like that or all but a couple. Doing a Tiamat fight... sorry i can't use your drk/sam/mnk/war/blm/sch/lolpup/drg/insert non rng/cor job here we need ranged attack dmg only. Is it still winnable yeah will you need a shitton more DD yeah. This update just means hey we should just bash HNMs alot and heal a shitton. What your ls only has 6 people im sorry you cant kill lolsuzaku now. As far as a challenge goes. You try low manning ***and tell me its not more challengeing then just throwing more bodies at something. Sure getting 40 people together is a challenge but finding 6 people with enough skill and gear to beat the ZNM cerberus... much much harder( in case your wonder yes kanican has done this and other supposedly impossible low mans)

And if this was really fair it would apply to players too. But just imagine bringing a lvl 30 whm to cerberus fight so he can throw a barfira and barparalyze up that does pretty as good as the meritted/geared lvl 75 whms ones. Ya half resist for everyone. Or unsleepable plds ungravititable thfs. I think just about everyone would think that was a problem... except maybe rmts.

Well I completely agree, and what you say for HNM and low man @6 is exactly the same with Limbus/xNM/... and solo'ing. How am I supposed to solo SW if I can't sleep fomor for 90 seconds ? I simply can't. Meaning I'll be forced to duo => less challenge/difficulty.

Btw just noticed you mentioned water nuke on leech, well damage always been halved on these when using water :/ It's like using non-fire nuke on bombs...

Actually generally ive always done full dmg with most nukes on bombs. Frankly havent nuked leechs in forever but half duration poison... im gonna do alot more testing tonight well see

I finished fighting Proto-Omega awhile ago. Naturally, I forgot to take screen shots, record resist rates, or get the exact numbers on my debuffing gearsets. Also, none of my "results" are parsed (which I know is a huge drawback). I'm using Proto-Omega as an example since 1) it's the most recent "big fight" I've done since the update, and 2) well-geared BRDs can land Elegy with a decent success rate while newly 75 and/or poorly-geared BRDs will struggle to land it (since it's strong to Earth).

Here's the ballpark figures on what I'm working with in regards to my debuffing gear:

Appropriate HQ staves (Terra's for Elegy, Auster's for Earth Threnody)
Appropriate Song+2 Instruments
Roughly 114 CHR (after food bonuses)
Roughly 500 - 510 Skill (Singing + Wind combined, both merited 8/8)
Magic Accuracy +9
WHM Subjob

I tried to land Elegy right at the beginning of the fight for the hell of it but was resisted. During the fight, I also casted an Elegy right as Threnody wore off, and that Elegy was also resisted.

Throughout the entire fight, I landed Earth Threnody without any problems.

When attempting to land Elegy with Earth Threnody on the mob, I'd say I had a success rate of 50% or so. While this isn't a bad success rate prior to the update, I eyeballed my success rate with Elegy to be better around 60% to 70% (once again, I'm aware that parsed information would be far more valuable).

When attempting to land Elegy with Earth Threnody and both CHR Etudes, I landed every single Elegy. The double CHR Etudes boosted my CHR into the neighborhood of 149-153 CHR. However, it should be noted that I experienced the same half-resists that other people have noticed. While I can't be sure of this, I think one Elegy did last the full duration (although this easily could have been two half-resisted, but overlapping, Elegies).

While I'm still pissed about the update, at least this fight was a bit encouraging. It's obviously wrong to extrapolate my experience as representative of how BRD now works across the entirety of the game, but at least it's somewhat encouraging. We can still land debuffs on resistant mobs, but it just takes more preparation and work. In the case of ES+Troubador, it also now takes more BRDs to keep up the rotation.

To me nuke resist ain't a big deal anyway, mobs family which resist all elemental nuke but one (like bombs) are very rare. Usually it's 1 or 2 resistance. Just use another nuke in that case. I mean mob like fomor and all been resisting ice for ever, does that prevents you to solo/low man anything involving fomors ? Nope.

As for bombs, the only one I constantly nuke is the one in BR, and always had damage halved even prior update if spell wasn't fire type. (also wiki always reported this (yeah I know wiki ain't always right, but in this case it was :d)).

#1 issue is crowd control, then debuffs. Nuke comes last (unless some mobs started to resist all magic damage (haven't tried everything :x)).

Ok so far debuff testing is going weird some spells. Paralzye is super consistent on rarab but got consistently worse on a bee. Was pretty consistent on a mandy though much lower. Blind bind gravity were fairly random on the first 2 mobs I tested. So far slow and sleep1 are champs cant really do poison since the mobs dont have enough hp. Didnt really expect this much randomness on lvl 1ish mobs with 317 enffeebling magic and HQ staffs decent macc int/mnd etc. Sleep and slow been so consistent i havent even bothered with ES.

My ls Did Xarc this monday and the brds or the rdms had no trouble sleeping their mobs for full duration.



My ls has only ever used 1-2 rdm/blm as main sleepers.

Congratulations, I bet your RDMs & BLMs *** are nice & polished, eh? But that doesn't change the fact that in a LARGE number of LSs, quite a few BLMs & RDMs are used as sleepers (most commonly BLMs). We're trying to gain a more in depth understanding of the changes made.

My LS is on a break too, but you can be sure i'll be checking in Dyna when we start again. There's been quite a few situations where Bind/Grav has worn at a bad time recently too, so i'll check these in Dyna also(since I use them quite a lot).

I went on dyna-Beaucidine last night and didn't see any trouble with sleeps from any of the mages. Not sure if this sleep is only affected toward certain mobs but thats just my experience.

i dont do end game, or anything anymore.. but i dont seem to see a problem well im soloing.. atleast puddings xD

I did Dynamis-Sandy on Monday.
We got to the NIN NM, close to the end.

I had been warning the LS leader that Sleeps may have been nerfed.

Yote: Greg, you might want to rethink the whole "sleep" thing...
Greg: Yote, I know what I'm doing. BLMs- ES SLEEPGA ON MY COMMAND!
Yote: I'm not going to ES Sleepga, because they will wake up at wrong...
Greg: SLEEPGA NOW!

One mob dies.
Three mobs wake up (including NM).

Greg: Oh ***, they are awake, sleep them!
BLMs: Sleepga counter not up!
RDMs: NM resisted!
Yote: I got it (uses ES Sleepga II).

Other three NIN mobs die, including NM.

Greg: I might have to research that sleep nerf you were talking about.
Yote: Yes, please do.

~Yote

Flan got MDB penalty :/ Not gonna get resisted on these lol

As for dynamis, it's not just "dynamis" gotta check the monster family you're sleeping/enfeebling/nuking. I really doubt that beastmens are affected, same goes for demons (at least regular version of these mob weren't).

yea dynamis is afected today dyna jeuno was a pain not only the duration of sleep if not the resist too was a carnage of blms and rdms

i havent noticed anything with sleep i had no problem with it when i was fighting orc wrath of the griffon misson in WoG. Saved my butt from Decrepted Gnole after fight.

about the flan thing MDB has nothing to do with resist. They just take more dmg. As far as enfeebles ive always had a slightly harder time landing some things like sleep on them. Did dynamis sandy tonight. We manaburn so wasnt to hard to do some timings. Timed several normal mobs as well as the dragoon and another NM. Full duration on all. The bst pets seemed to sleep less but didnt time it and besides we only had lullaby on it so dont last long anyways. I'm starting to think its only mobs with the same element or a resist to that element and HNMs that are affected. Might try slow on gods tomorrow to see assuming ls lets me come rdm/blm so i can land it on them reliably enough that im sure my duration is due to the 1/2 resist not my gears sucking or they too strong.

I don't have a lot of experience with sleep, but thought I'd throw this in.

Yesterday, as 25BLU/12NIN I tried soloing the San'doria 2-3 dragon/eye fight. With 75 blue magic skill and Azure Lore used, I'm guessing my Sheep Song lasted 20-30 seconds on the dragon -- it awoke a few seconds before I killed the eye.

I slept a few things yesterday to check things out a bit and I noticed...

Diabolos' Nightmare lasted a solid 60 seconds each use.

Shiva's Sleepga lasted a solid 90 seconds each use.

Sooo... As far as I can see, neither were nerfed in any way. =)

FFXI Dynamis Calendar

What monsters did you test those moves on?

Yup but more damage means you might think you're not getting a resist while you're actually getting one, blm with shitty gear would tier IV for 950dmg sometime, while a resisted blizzard IV is 800dmg for me lol... And Flan have low int, no to mention they do not resist a particular element.

Just had fun in a BCNM with haseyo and kiri
well sleep II and sleepga wasn't lasting long at all ><

so trying to low man a simple bcnm with sleep isn't gonna work as intended >.>

failed 1st time and had a really rough time on 2nd try >.>

edit: oh and kiri died

so did hase ><

No exp lost woo!
That was an interesting 24min we had.

Well I always die so it's whatever.
._.

You kept waking up my damn mobs silly D:
I mean, they were going to wake up seconds later anyway...so it's whatever.

I kept hitting them because they kept trying to eat your face >_>
/slap!

you are both bad, how about that! =o

do you seriously change to Anrin obi for enfeebling magic...?

Yeah and ? And it's not for "enfeebling magic", it's for sleep, which is completely different than slow or paralyze, where you would increase MND for potency on these (when resistance ain't an issue).

Obi's improve damage but also improve magic accuracy.

I did ENM Mithras yesterday, sleep duration was definitly not the same. >.>