Oirandori

Ah ok Oirandori might be a situational katana or it maybe just a new toy for me and I might go back to Kamome after using and abusing Oirandori^^ LoL

Dex is just dex...it increases acc, crit hit rate, and it's a mod for several of ninja's WS. I don't see what's so strange about a weapon having dex on it.

On some weapons and armor the added Stat + ( I have heard it speculated that the stat and attribute bonuses on AF or Weapons are related. IE on the rng AF hat, there is a MND bonus, and an "enhanced sharpshot effect" bonus. So in that case, mnd has a secondary effect of boosting the effect of sharpshot as well. I've been told that RNG's have tested this with the hat off and wearing +mnd gear and said it's true.) then again who knows right.... oh ya SE does EXPLAIN the +10-15 AGI on Kannagi just so happens to be the blade hi Mod the Dex on Oirandori might mean something....

Meh I could be wrong and the +5 Dex doesn't mean anything.

All emperyean weapons have +10-15 of the stat which mods its weaponskill. Mind has...no effect on sharpshot, thats the most bogus thing I've ever heard. Mind does however increase holy bolt damage, which would explain it being there.

All emp weapons have their ws mod's on the weapon, DEX is a common stat on majority of NIN's gear due to ws's being DEX mods.

Results of the first test are in. The Crit. hit evasion down effect does not grant 100% crit rate to the attacker.

Where did you find it post link prz

I attacked a mandy, procced the effect, and my next few attacks were not crits. This is a very easy test, and anyone can do it to see it is true.

LOL

Lmao Night What's up buddy I am just passing the time at work *** around on comp passing the time.

Lol I know that but like Aizenkunitoshi when I had that katana I was getting feed back to try it with "Yonnin or Innin or 4 shadows" never really noticed a differend and none of it made sense when I got offered 3 mil for it I sold that bish fast LOL

Wewt! That's a good idea I am gonna try that when I get off work lol

It's obviously does not lower AGI, it lowers the stat "Critical hit evasion". The question is whether or not that stat belongs to the dDex calculation, or the overall crit rate calculation.

Initial results of testing:
atmas used: Mounted Champion (keeps me alive), Omnipotent (caps dDex), Apoc (speeds things up a bit).

No critical rate gear was used.

Expected baseline crit rate (without oirandori): 24% (20% dDex + 4% merits)
Parsed baseline crit rate (with no oirandori effect): 25.48%

Parsed crit rate with oirandori (effect active large percentage of time): 30.91% (sample size 482 hits)

Conclusion: Even with dDex capped, the "Lowers crit. hit evasion" debuff seems to have an effect on critical rate. The parsed increase from the effect was ~5%, however the effect was only active ~50% of the time. I expect that the increase in crit rate granted by the effect is ~10% and is NOT counted towards the dDex cap.

I'm not sure where everyone got the idea that crit hit rate caps.. Sure your base crit hit rate inside and outside abyssea is determined by your dDEX which caps but outside from that it's not quite that simple. Someone did aftermath testing with scourge inside abyssea and repored a critical hit rate of something like 98% implying that if crit hit rate does cap it's something along the lines of 95%.

The only thing anyone has brought up that is even relevant to the op is whether or not the crit eva down effect is included in some dDEX calculation or is separate similar to gear.

That being said even without gear inside abyssea crit hit rate is somewhere between 70~80% meaning that off handing kamome is going to increase your TP phase damage by 7~8% and if you are using a crit ws(Jin or Hi) increasing that by an even higher margin since it is common thought that they have a crit rate bonus determined by TP.

Outside abyssea it does seem like it would be a definite option. Most situations you will not be even capped for dDEX in the TP phase whether or not you are for WS. Again it is heavily reliant on the process rate/effect. Kamome definitely a less than definite choice outside anyway seeing as the returns will be marginalized although the attack and accuracy are still nice.


As for having a Kannagi, no one has even mentioned that kamome has a super low delay which definitely contributes to it's dominance over most if not all other options, lower delay means more main hand swings with potential for aftermath to proc.

Edit: someone finally made a useful post instead of the typical (You can't do maffs! You ideeot!) thank god.

Kamome DMG: 39 Delay: 180 Accuracy +8 Attack +8
Increases critical hit damage
Lv. 84 NIN
Damage Per Second: 13
TP Per Hit: 5%
Critical Hit Damage:
Appears to provide a 10% bonus which is applied to both hands.
Yes the 10% bonus on both hands is nice but how is 10 less delay "Super" it is considerable but "dominant"?

Oirandori DMG: 44 Delay: 190 DEX +5
Ninja tool expertise
Additional effect:
Lowers enemy critical hit evasion
Lv. 89 NIN damage Per Second: 13.89
TP Per Hit: 5.2%
Percentage on NTE and Add eff. Lowers enemy Crit hit Eva hasn't been determined yet. If you choose to use Kamome then by all means do so, I will choose what I want to use there are some people that like to try new things and make that choice for themselves.^^ If anyone has a link to more info on Oirandori please post that's what I am interested in thank you.

Okay I give up.

The point was 180 < 190

more swings = more procs for aftermath

Box

It's not an AGI down effect, its a separate effect with the same name given on the katana, "Critical hit evasion". DNC has a similar step that lowers the target's critical hit evasion thus increasing your chance of landing critical hits. As prevously stated kamome is flat out the best katana to offhand in abyssea with the capped dDEX and the extra critical hit rate you gain from atmas, no questions about it.

However I've been wondering myself if Oirandori would be a better katana to offhand outside abyssea considering the environment does not provide the same enhancements to critical hit rate and there are no cruor buffs to help cap your dDEX thus making the increase critical hit damage on kamome not as effective. Anyone done any math using Kannagi/Oirandori outside of abyssea? Would be nice to see some numbers on a prolonged test with Oirandori vs Kamome offhand using Blade:Hi's.

This.. because I can't believe this thread is still going...

I like my Kamome, I would only ever use that Oirandori to

A. Save money, which... Saving money on NIN? I would have to slap myself...

or...

B. To dual wield with kamome... again... I would have to slap myself for doing..

I'm sorry you seem to disagree with everyone who has posted here, but I have to agree with them, Kamome in Abyssea is superior to me. The only reason I would really be able to see the arguement is if you had tested it in both Abyssea and outside as well and compared your regular attacks and your weapon skills.

i last night went with a friend and beat up the gobbie, to my joy he dropped the oirandori, so needless to say i went to play with it in aby altepa, i gotta say it's a nice katana, i do have the kamome so i'm now using oiri (main hand) kamome (off-hand) all i had before that was an Ichi-an for my main hand. So for me it was a good pick-up. (just realised, kind of unrelated post but yeah, i was happy to get it :D)

Did you notice if the effect can proc more than once in quick succession suggesting maybe it can stack upon itself further lowering crit eva?

It procs all the time, probably a 10% proc rate which only takes like 3 seconds, it also wears fast so you might be re-applying as necessary. Animation is nice fo sho. 1/1 on this bugger using brew and blue proc.

I like the low delay, dual wielding with kamome. As far as how effective the addn effect is, i would say its a decent bonus for solo, but an amazing bonus for the group.

Has anyone tried substituting SS for GH (so RR/SS/Apoc) and relying on the additional effect to make up for GH's crit hit rate? Depending on how much the additional effect raises your crit hit rate, it could be pretty good. Not sure though.

It never procced if the effect was already on.

As for dual wielding with kamome, I find oiran/kamome to be the best combo available if you do not have kannagi yet. Both have a great low delay, and oiran has decent base damage. The crit eva down (especially outside abyssea) is very nice.

I agree with everything said here, I main hand Oiran when using my DD set. the addn affect procs all the time at least once per mob and we know how fast those normal mobs die.

The other thing worth mentioning is that the effect helps all party members, not just you. When you add up the total benefit of that, there is probably no substitute.

Does that make up for not having GH?

ab-so-fuc-kin-lut-ely.