FFXIAH's Thoughts On Capitalism?

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FFXIAH's thoughts on capitalism?
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 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-03-25 13:00:58
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Cerberus.Zandra said:
Carbuncle.Lodo said:
Using the 2010 federal minimum wage as a guideline, a full time minimum wage worker brings in $15,080/year, unemployment can far exceed that as unemployment rates also vary by state and is calculated based off of what you made before you lost your job. While I agree that 3 years seems excessive, and probably is, the extensions have been put in place to ensure that people out of work from the recession are able to maintain their standards of living, as throwing these people to the wolves would have drastic implications to other sectors, people previously making $45k, even with realistic mortgage payments and car notes, can not get by on a minimum wage job, and acting like they should take any work just so they stop collecting unemployment is frankly capitalistic naivete, as this would deal serious blows to already crippled sectors of our economy.

It's a sad fact that a small percentage of people abuse a good system, but there will always be people that abuse the system. I had mentioned it before earlier in the thread, but I'll say it again. We must tolerate the fact that some people will abuse a welfare/unemployment system, as these systems need to be in place to help the honest majority, similar to how we tolerate a guilty person getting away with a crime, to help eliminate the number of innocents wrongly convicted.

Wow that's really remarkable. Tell me again why the rest of the population needs to be on the hook for your mortgage payments that you can no longer afford? Some people actually plan their lives to anticipate the sudden unemployment hiccups by saving up for rainy days or by buying a house they know they can still swing if they get in trouble. But because some people over-extend themselves by buying a house they can barely afford you think everyone else needs to float them until they can find a job they like? Again you're rewarding the bad choices of some at expense of the good choices of others. I say getting off your butt and flipping those burgers is the responsible thing to do. The rest of society is not on the hook to maintain your living standards.
I think you are just generalizing again.
But it's not bad, both sides are doing it frequently.
Regardless, both of you are going to have an excuse for every little thing, because it's so easy to justify ones actions by the "implied" inaction/inability/assumed stupidity of others.
i bet you wouldn't say the same thing to these people without them being in the vague land of generalities, where one can refer to everyone, but also be referring to no one in particular.
But again, both sides of the spectrum do this, but it doesn't make it any more correct than the other side.
because you just like them are talking about "some" people that are causing problems, but these some people aren't "all" people in the least that have problems with this.
 Bismarck.Nevill
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By Bismarck.Nevill 2011-03-25 13:21:10
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I just feel like I should have the right to spend my money where I want, not the government decide for me.

I spend about 1000 dollars every christmas on toys for underprivelaged children. I also buy extra halloween costumes for the kids in my daughter's school whose parents either can't afford or don't care enough to give to these children. I also donate loads to local food banks, and invite a couple into my home for Thanksgiving. So saying I am selfish is a little unfair. I just want the ability to continue to give to those I know are in need instead of the government giving to people who abuse the system.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-03-25 14:21:35
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Bismarck.Nevill said:
I just feel like I should have the right to spend my money where I want, not the government decide for me.

I spend about 1000 dollars every christmas on toys for underprivelaged children. I also buy extra halloween costumes for the kids in my daughter's school whose parents either can't afford or don't care enough to give to these children. I also donate loads to local food banks, and invite a couple into my home for Thanksgiving. So saying I am selfish is a little unfair. I just want the ability to continue to give to those I know are in need instead of the government giving to people who abuse the system.
Toy MADE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY?!!!!!
:D.
i'm just teasing.

the government already take away your money and do what they wish with it!
i don't want my tax dollars to pay for bombs but i bet some of them do, so by proxy your tax dollars as well as mine fuel the war in the middle east for both sides with arms deals and generally fund human death over humanitarian aid by leaps and bounds.
 Carbuncle.Lodo
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By Carbuncle.Lodo 2011-03-25 14:39:07
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Cerberus.Zandra said:

Wow that's really remarkable. Tell me again why the rest of the population needs to be on the hook for your mortgage payments that you can no longer afford? Some people actually plan their lives to anticipate the sudden unemployment hiccups by saving up for rainy days or by buying a house they know they can still swing if they get in trouble. But because some people over-extend themselves by buying a house they can barely afford you think everyone else needs to float them until they can find a job they like? Again you're rewarding the bad choices of some at expense of the good choices of others. I say getting off your butt and flipping those burgers is the responsible thing to do. The rest of society is not on the hook to maintain your living standards.

Because we live in a country, which is a system. While I know in America there is a hyper-focus on the individual, a system is comprised of individual parts that contribute to the whole. When an individual part is affected, the system as a whole is affected. When a family loses their house, it's not only the family that's affected, that home is returned to the bank, who then is responsible for reselling that home in an effort to recoup as much of the loss as possible in a tanked housing market. As a business, they will pass this loss onto other customers to limit the impact to their bottom line, which then impacts other individuals, potentially putting them in jeopardy. Don't mistake a house of cards for a brick wall.

Also be careful with your pronouns, I live very comfortably.
 Asura.Ashleh
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By Asura.Ashleh 2011-03-25 14:56:09
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i think Capitalism is a pretty cool guy, eh eats homeless people and doesnt afraid of anything
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-03-25 15:27:16
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Asura.Ashleh said:
Capitalism=
 Ragnarok.Harpunnik
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By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2011-03-25 18:59:21
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Asura.Sandolphon said:
As I'm getting older I'm realizing how much of a shining beacon on a hill America isn't. I live in an economic environment where there are homeless people and people that can't afford to basically live and at the same time people that can afford multiple homes and make millions from buying and selling these same homes. Doesn't really add up. I live in a country where those that pick up everyones garbage aren't paid enough to even create garbage. Where Justin Bieber thrives, athletes are paid millions, and the government is run by millionaires. Isn't it a marvel that in the land of freedom, the majority are bound in chains to the rich. The rich call it "class warfare" if the poor want a piece of the pie, is it? Just curious everyone elses thoughts on the blight of capitalism. Some will defend it, some will bash it with me, some won't give a ***, etc. But it has problems, and if it has problems then there must be solutions, admittedly. I'll also post this what-if question: If you were in a position to make change, what would those changes be? I'd start with raising minimum wage, so that anyone working full-time could afford to live comfortably. I'd also create strict price ceilings on necessities, such as rent-prices, mortgage rates, etc. Another thing that I think would help would be, in addition to a minimum wage, a maximum wage. Anything earned over the maximum wage would be distributed by the government to help others reach the new minimum wage. It'd work like this: Say, after some studies, it was decided that in order to live comfortably one should make...15 dollars/hr or 40-50k year. The maximum wage would be something like 200k/yr. Those making millions a year would have this cut to help those making 18k a year reach that 40-50k mark. The reasoning for this is that one of the common complaints in regards to communism and socialist-esque systems is that it removes incentives to pursue difficult careers. You've all heard the tired cliche: "If doctors made as much as trashmen and trashmen as much as doctors we'd all be trashmen and there'd be no doctors." Doctors would get paid more, of course, probably 100-200k/yr. The problem that I see is that the rich too oft forget that their millions are indubitably linked to the poor. Without the uneducated single mom on the cash register at McDonalds the company wouldn't make a single dime. But what does McDonalds pay their employees? You guessed it, the minimum wage. Almost insulting isn't it? "We're gunna pay you...let's see here...THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM AMOUNT WE CAN WITHOUT GETTING INTO LEGAL TROUBLE." Shitty. Another idea is making education more readily available. Colleges are ridiculously expensive and the common man, without being a certified genius/try-hard and making perfect grades, has a hard time funding himself through college. And when you get in the college and associated companies try their best to take every penny they can from you. Text books are a good example. They are ridiculously over priced, I know I've personally paid over 200$ for a copy of a 200page paperback book that's bound shittily and is literally rags after one semester. All this should have limits. But I don't really have an idea for that yet. Ugh...lastly I'm not a political theorist, and I have no formal education regarding economics, so obviously alot of my reasoning probably has some flaws, but I feel like alot is common sense. Discuss. This should be interesting.

Wow not sure I feel like wading through 20 pages of this thread. So I'm going to dump my opinion in here just pretty much in response to OP. Capitalism is not perfect, but it is also a pretty good system. The system is very much like the 4 seasons, theres a down sucky time, a nice upswing, and nice feel good warm peak, the slow down turn back to sucky time. Just seems during winter time we like to *** and complain about how cold it is, and each winter we seem to mess with the system and move further away from a true capitalist system.

America is still filled with opportunity. Is it easy to go from the proverbial rags to riches? No. But this has been the case since the birth of this country.

People are so spoiled here. They think that man, if I work 40 hours a week I should own 2 cars,a house, have cable, internet, the newest iphone, xbox, the dvds I want, a full pantry, and I need to go to some vacaction area at least once a year. And if I'm missing some of these well, there is obviously something very horribly wrong with this whole system here.

People also have a great envy for anyone with money. Sure, there are some rich people who didn't work hard for it. But others have. I've met some of them, they are busy tying up loose ends at the office Thanksgiving night while their wife, kids, and guests have dinner without them. Shame on you for thinking that they should be giving up more of their money for someone else against their will.

Raising minimum wage, even in leaps and bounds will not help. Sooner or later goods and services adapt to this information and the prices of things will rise.

College helps, but it is not always as vital as people think. The key is that in no matter where you are you need to work hard and aim for the top. And never treat any employment as a "temporary" or "I'm better than this job." Yeah some companies are not good to work for, and no matter what you do, you will never climb the ladder, that is when its time to move along. Too many people get content with what they do. As sad as it is to see some guy laid off after working a manufacturing job after 35 years, why would anyone be happy with themselves for working the same job for that long and not making any progress career wise? Reminds me of a conversation I had with someone from one of our sister companies. His family came from Mexico as migrant workers picking fruits and vegetables. He said it always baffled him how his family and friends never aspired to do anything else but being manual labor on a farm. It drove him crazy. He said one morning his father came to wake him up to go work the fields with him, and he told his father no. His father asked him why not? He replied, dad, I got a job. And he never looked back. He busted his butt and now is doing very well.

My parents are the same way. They came here in the 1970's with little more with the clothes on their backs. My dad worked all types of crappy jobs. Didn't want my grandma to have to even think of paying for any type of schooling so he joined the marines and afterwards used their program to go to art school. They in turn sacrificed tons to put my sister and I through school.

What would fix our system the most? Teach personal finance in school. I've been in many sticky financial situations because no one ever really taught me about all the traps and mistakes one can fall into. I obviously don't know any of you guys posting in this thread, so it would be wrong and rude for me to assume anyone is a freeloader/slacker/etc. However I would wager some who think the system is unfair are currently tight on money and not where they would like to be. I would also wager that if they were better with money they would be in a better place. The other half who may be doing well, but think the system sucks r probably refering to loop holes corporations or wealthy individuals use to make themselves richer. I would say a lot of that is as a result of laws or policies put into practice to penalize the rich or advance the poor.

Again it isn't a perfect system. And I'm not saying the typical "if you don't like it gtfo." But look into some other societies, talk to some people, maybe even visit, and you will find all systems and ideas have at least some pimples on them.

Good luck on your pursuit of happiness. All I can say is keep searching.
 Sylph.Kirisawa
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By Sylph.Kirisawa 2011-03-28 12:01:34
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If one piece of information is ignored in most of these discussions, it tends to be this:

There is a finite amount of wealth within any given scope.

This is the problem with amassing stagnant wealth, or at least one of the only tangible problems that can be realistically discussed. If you have money, and choose to accumulate and just sit on it, no one else can use it. You've effectively removed that wealth from the economy. As long as wealth circulates, there are opportunities for any number of other people to get a piece of it before it returns to the source. Yes, that means other people can get your money. No, that does not necessarily mean you will lose your money; in most places, you're slowly losing it anyway through property taxes and the like. It means there's a chance to maintain the pseudo-balance. The only way to maintain your current lifestyle is to keep changing with the world around you, which involves constantly circulating your wealth.

The reason video game economies "work" so well is that there is no finite limit on wealth. As more people enter the economy, they actually increase the overall wealth of the universe. I think what I'm saying is:

Real life needs NPC vendors.
 Ragnarok.Harpunnik
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By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2011-04-08 08:20:08
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I recently picked up an audio version of Atlas Shrugged and am about half way through (so far a very bad *** book). There is a speech in the book thats quite long pertaining to money that I thought also fits into this conversation.

You can find the text of the speech here.

Warning, its rather long, so have some time to sit down, read it, and digest it.
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