Dbl Attk Or Store TP?

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Dbl Attk or Store TP?
 Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2011-03-07 14:57:32
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Quetzalcoatl.Tivaud said:
Bismarck.Nalien said:
I do not *** get why anyone would - under any circumstances - ever buy a god damn NQ Cerberus Mantle for DD purposes.
I asked for comments of improvement not criticism. Thx for the try though German.
He did offer some improvement help..don't buy NQ cerb ever.

See that's helpful.
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By alas 2011-03-07 14:58:02
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Odin.Sheelay said:
Twilight mail is not bad, it's just not the top choice. Clearly it will beat Heca in any situation. If you get one and are on a budget, by all means use it.

You could go for Zahak's mail (much cheaper than Grim and very good) for buffed situations and mail for unbuffed ( Berserk / Restraint / Aggressor ).

Well said.
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By Leonlionheart 2011-03-07 14:59:13
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alas said:
Af3+2 hands modify the bonus, which is stored separately from the hands themselves. In essence the hands double the effectiveness of restraint for each regular swing (bonus doesn't apply to additional double attack or triple attack swings), but are not reliant on the hands being on during the ws.
If you were to wear them on a first hit, remove for second, put em back on for 3rd, alternating etc., your restraint bonus would look like this: Double, regular, double, regular, etc. It would still calculate those 4 hits as being equivalent to 6 hits in restraint ws bonus damage even though you took them off and reequipped like that.
TBH, I'm not sure if there are better hands for tp phase (there may very well be) since the reality is you're probably only really getting 2-3 swings that count toward Restraint bonus when using a 5-hit. This certainly reduces their effectiveness, but when you're shooting for a 5hit, your damage is shifting toward your ws frequency, so upping that ws damage in tp phase seems like the right thing to do.

AF3+2 Bonus too. Doing 1.2k crits on Scars/Visions NMs is cool.
Still really low proc rate, but cool.

For outside abyssea I can't imagine Heafoc being better than ravager's+2 because your dDEX won't be capped, though I don't think you'll ever need THAT MUCH accuracy. (20 on body 12 on hands 7 on feet, +7 skill on body. Should be capped on everything everywhere, specially with capped merits.)
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By alas 2011-03-07 15:07:58
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Leonlionheart said:
alas said:
Af3+2 hands modify the bonus, which is stored separately from the hands themselves. In essence the hands double the effectiveness of restraint for each regular swing (bonus doesn't apply to additional double attack or triple attack swings), but are not reliant on the hands being on during the ws.
If you were to wear them on a first hit, remove for second, put em back on for 3rd, alternating etc., your restraint bonus would look like this: Double, regular, double, regular, etc. It would still calculate those 4 hits as being equivalent to 6 hits in restraint ws bonus damage even though you took them off and reequipped like that.
TBH, I'm not sure if there are better hands for tp phase (there may very well be) since the reality is you're probably only really getting 2-3 swings that count toward Restraint bonus when using a 5-hit. This certainly reduces their effectiveness, but when you're shooting for a 5hit, your damage is shifting toward your ws frequency, so upping that ws damage in tp phase seems like the right thing to do.

AF3+2 Bonus too. Doing 1.2k crits on Scars/Visions NMs is cool.
Still really low proc rate, but cool.

For outside abyssea I can't imagine Heafoc being better than ravager's+2 because your dDEX won't be capped, though I don't think you'll ever need THAT MUCH accuracy. (20 on body 12 on hands 7 on feet, +7 skill on body. Should be capped on everything everywhere, specially with capped merits.)

Also a good point. The added percentage of double damage hits weighs in as well. I've yet to see solid testing on the proc rate, and have been too lazy to test it myself for either 4/5 or 5/5 assuming using an atma like Omnipotent to keep capped haste, so I don't know the exact number on em, but every little bit helps...not to mention the, "whoa did you see that crit?!" factor.
The reality is, once you're getting close to top end end gear, some of the extremely expensive options we're talking about here like Grim and such start to amount to single digit damage average increases over the next gear piece in line. Take it slow and do what you can afford. The biggest things you can do for improving your DoT is to cap your haste and get that 6hit down to a 5hit. After that, it's all just icing.
 Odin.Sheelay
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By Odin.Sheelay 2011-03-07 15:08:16
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If you think at how much Acc we would have at our disposal back at 75 cap, there is nothing that should be evading us with the much better Acc gear and GA skill we have now.

Still, for outside Abyssea I would likely recommend swapping Heafoc for Hands +2, Legs +2 for BH.
Outside of Abyssea, just for dDex purposes, even Twilight and Adaman bodies might prove more beneficial than Grim or Zahak's, but I won't go as far as to say they'd always beat them as there are many factors that need to be considered.
 Quetzalcoatl.Tivaud
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tivaud 2011-03-07 15:08:27
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Bahamut.Zorander said:
Quetzalcoatl.Tivaud said:
Bismarck.Nalien said:
I do not *** get why anyone would - under any circumstances - ever buy a god damn NQ Cerberus Mantle for DD purposes.
I asked for comments of improvement not criticism. Thx for the try though German.
He did offer some improvement help..don't buy NQ cerb ever. See that's helpful.

Lol it's doesn't help at all since I bought that back in the stone ages for PLD, but I'll use Atheling from now on anyway.
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By alas 2011-03-07 15:21:33
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Odin.Sheelay said:
If you think at how much Acc we would have at our disposal back at 75 cap, there is nothing that should be evading us with the much better Acc gear and GA skill we have now.

Still, for outside Abyssea I would likely recommend swapping Heafoc for Hands +2, Legs +2 for BH.
Outside of Abyssea, just for dDex purposes, even Twilight and Adaman bodies might prove more beneficial than Grim or Zahak's, but I won't go as far as to say they'd always beat them as there are many factors that need to be considered.

Couldn't agree with this more. Almost feels like every post I enter needs an "Inside Abyssea" & "Outside Abyssea" disclaimer on it. Even though we've gained a few levels worth of dex natively, the likelihood is that currently accepted optimal WS sets will be very light in dex when/if content ever moves back outside Abyssea. It's easy right now because basically every race is capped out in Abyssea. But once we're back outside, we get into the mess of this race versus that race deciding optimal gear sets again.
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By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2011-03-07 15:24:36
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Capped Haste, true 5-hit build without the Regain if you use Carbonara as your food.

My Ring2 doesn't show for some reason but I'd use Keen Ring or Hoard Ring if you don't have access to Rose Strap.

Edit: Can use Walahra Turban and still be capped Haste if you don't have Zelus.
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-03-07 15:28:35
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You'd be better off using a Blitz ring and dodging the Dastanas for Ravager's Mufflers +2. You benefit very little from having those hands equipped.
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By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2011-03-07 15:29:19
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^
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By alas 2011-03-07 15:35:27
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Odin.Dirtyfinger said:


Capped Haste, true 5-hit build without the Regain if you use Carbonara as your food.

My Ring2 doesn't show for some reason but I'd use Keen Ring or Hoard Ring if you don't have access to Rose Strap.

Edit: Can use Walahra Turban and still be capped Haste if you don't have Zelus.

That same set would have capped haste using W.Turban as well. This is basically what my tp set looked like until I finally got Zelus Tiara. And after relooking at the set I posted, I realize I mistakenly left both Rose Strap AND Hoard Ring on. Removing either one of those pieces maintains a true 5 hit, giving exactly 20tp per swing. For now I'm stuck using Hoard ring till I get a Rose Strap, at which point I get to put my Blitz Ring back on, recapping haste.
Carbonara is definitely an option, but I prefer to use Red Curry (buns) when it counts for things like AV, etc. for the added damage output.
 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2011-03-07 17:32:20
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I dont get why so many people use Keen ring + Rose strap >.>
Use hoard ring + Pole if you need 4stp.
The 2% DA is way better than a keen ring.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Neisan
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By Quetzalcoatl.Neisan 2011-03-07 19:44:15
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Doesn't work exactly like that, you might need a little more STP during TP phase to keep xhit since assuming initial + 1 hit lands you're getting less stp than if you WS'd in Rose strap.