US Economic Collapse?

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US Economic collapse?
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By 2011-03-05 18:54:42
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 Bahamut.Jefant
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By Bahamut.Jefant 2011-03-05 19:00:20
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its to bad the news dont tell trueth and turnd into talk shows
 
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 Bahamut.Jefant
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By Bahamut.Jefant 2011-03-05 19:09:35
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Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
its not the government, its private companies who monopolitized the oil industry. So I blame rich, white men.
what ever happen to monopoly busting?
 
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By 2011-03-05 19:11:51
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 Bahamut.Jefant
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By Bahamut.Jefant 2011-03-05 19:12:57
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Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Bahamut.Jefant said:
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
its not the government, its private companies who monopolitized the oil industry. So I blame rich, white men.
what ever happen to monopoly busting?
Teddy Roosevelt left office.
lol ya last one i rember was the phone company dont remebr if was gte or att
 Bismarck.Zeota
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By Bismarck.Zeota 2011-03-05 20:40:08
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I heard about this on the radio some weeks back and checked it out myself. While he does make some valid points, it is as people here have already said. The writing's been on the wall for many years. Hard to say exactly what's going to happen and when. Could be this year, could be the next, who knows? We shall see.
 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-03-05 20:44:37
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Bahamut.Jefant said:
go solar as of last year solar power is cheaper than nuclear and you dont need find place hide the waste and electric cars are nice for 100-60 mile drive if u got hydrogen cell u can go farther or generator

If I'm not mistaken, Solar cells do not last forever, and the materials used to make them are somewhat nasty. Disposal of old solar cells could cause an issue.

As for nuclear waste, it can be re-used a fuel, the US is just too stupid to do that and stores it all somewhere.
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By Serj 2011-03-05 20:47:45
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Bahamut.Jefant said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Bahamut.Jefant said:
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
its not the government, its private companies who monopolitized the oil industry. So I blame rich, white men.
what ever happen to monopoly busting?
Teddy Roosevelt left office.
lol ya last one i rember was the phone company dont remebr if was gte or att

Reagen, I think. And that didn't work in our favor, at all.

I'll look in to this and check up on it in a minute. Programing my radio show. I really don't remember any exact details.
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By Serj 2011-03-05 20:48:50
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Phoenix.Kirana said:
Bahamut.Jefant said:
go solar as of last year solar power is cheaper than nuclear and you dont need find place hide the waste and electric cars are nice for 100-60 mile drive if u got hydrogen cell u can go farther or generator

If I'm not mistaken, Solar cells do not last forever, and the materials used to make them are somewhat nasty. Disposal of old solar cells could cause an issue.

As for nuclear waste, it can be re-used a fuel, the US is just too stupid to do that and stores it all somewhere.

IT'S SO TRUE. PLUTONIUM CAN BE USED FOR ENERGY.

I realize the potential danger in that, but seriously.
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 Bahamut.Jefant
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By Bahamut.Jefant 2011-03-05 20:57:42
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Phoenix.Kirana said:
Bahamut.Jefant said:
go solar as of last year solar power is cheaper than nuclear and you dont need find place hide the waste and electric cars are nice for 100-60 mile drive if u got hydrogen cell u can go farther or generator
If I'm not mistaken, Solar cells do not last forever, and the materials used to make them are somewhat nasty. Disposal of old solar cells could cause an issue. As for nuclear waste, it can be re-used a fuel, the US is just too stupid to do that and stores it all somewhere.
solar is not just solar cells its mirriors focused on pipes to heat water as well but from what i have seen solar has reach point where it cheaper and the cost to build nuclear keeps growing they say solar is going keep droping in price where nuclear is going keep going up in price
 Sylph.Cossack
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By Sylph.Cossack 2011-03-05 21:21:52
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Its not just the government, its not just the big corporations, the blame doesn't even rest fully on the shoulders of the lazy,dumb *** drooling idiots that go out and vote their government check, the blame really lies a little broader. In truth, until the american people get over their sense of entitlement, their fear and rapacious lust for security at any cost and especially lay down their HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE ill-placed sentimentality for doomed causes then we're not likely to progress. To put it simply, we've become fat lazy and soft. I support out country going belly up, its the first step to ***canning all these worthless social programs and government bureaucracies. Its time for uncle sam to get his foot off our neck.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2011-03-05 21:26:09
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Like I said blame OPEC
 Sylph.Cossack
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By Sylph.Cossack 2011-03-05 21:27:38
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I love OPEC, I hope they up the cost of oil even more.
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 Lakshmi.Snuffy
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By Lakshmi.Snuffy 2011-03-06 01:43:39
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Cerberus.Irohuro said:
Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Hydrogen is one, but where do you get enough hydrogen to fuel entire countries worth of cars? IIRC one of the cheaper ways to get Hydrogen (which as we all know, companies will use the cheapest method possible) would be to get it from Methane (natural gas) but then you're releasing carbon into the atmosphere so you'll still have people bugging out about global warming, and then there's the fact that natural gas isn't an unlimited source either.
You're joking right?
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.

Hydrogen is released from very basic chemical reactions, like Zinc, aluminum, gallium (although expensive, can be reused many times), and water splitting to name a few.

Fuel Cell applications

Hyrdogen production

Hyrdogen Natural Occurrence

Hell you can make hydrogen from urine, lol.

its amazing the lack of education concerning hydrogen power, eh? i mention it to my parents and they were like "omg but its super expensive and not very available" i was like "you are idiots" (then again they live for watching fox new >.>)

Indeed, there is a lot of miseducation when it comes to hydrogen fuel cells, which you and Chaosx seem to subscribe to. Hi, I'm a PhD student in mechanical engineering who has actually spent 3 years researching, designing, and building fuel cells for EVs. I have worked with VC-funded companies who tried building these for the mass market. So let me clear up a few things about why there are no hydrogen fuel cell cars and probably will never be.

1. Abundance. Hydrogen is indeed the most abundant element in the universe, and is found mostly as ionized plasma, but also as hydrogen gas. However, on EARTH it is not abundant chemically at all. It is present elementally in things such as water, but it takes energy to break it out of chemicals and turn it into hydrogen gas. It's elemental abundance on Earth simply does not give the whole truth.

As another example, aluminum element is very abundant in the Earth, but it is naturally found as various ores; aluminum chemically bonded to oxygen and other crud. Extracting useful aluminum metal out of natural aluminum ore is very energy intensive and complicated, was not developed until the Industrial Revolution (unlike the purification of other metals discovered thousands of years ago).

So producing hydrogen gas requires energy. In fact, the known methods for getting hydrogen out of abundant raw forms such as water are not very energy efficient compared to many other renewable energy storage mediums, such as various batteries. Unlike nuclear, or fossil-fuels, you need to input more energy in to making hydrogen than you get out when you examine the entire engineering processes that convert raw materials to useful product (say turning crude oil into gasoline or uranium ore into filtered 235 isotope).

You can get the energy to make hydrogen from say a solar cell or wind turbine, but if you have access to that, why not just use that electricity directly in powerlines and batteries than go through an inefficient intermediary?

2. Form factor. Hydrogen gas has a very low mass density, and low energy density. You'd need to pack in 40 times the weight of gasoline to achieve the same energy (go the same distance). On top of the weight, you have to consider the volume. Here's some basic arithmetic: say your car can go 300 miles on 10 gallons of gasoline. Gasoline's density is 6 lb/gal, so that's 60 lb or 27 kg of gasoline to go 300 miles. The energy density is 42 MJ/kg so you it takes 1134 MJ of energy to go 300 miles.

If you want to go 300 miles with hydrogen, with an energy density of 1.6 MJ/kg, you need 709 kg of hydrogen gas. With a density of 0.082 kg/m^3, you'd need 8646 m^3 of space in car to carry that fuel. So you need to compress it to fit. Let's say you generously sacrifice 2mx2mx2m=8m^3 of space for your fuel. You basically need to compress the gas until the pressure is 1,000 times that of the atmosphere to fit it in the car.

First, compressing it that much uses up LOTS of energy. Second you need to design a pressure vessel that can hold all that pressure in addition to not leaking. Hydrogen gas, being no more than two protons and two electrons, can diffuse through metal like*** through a bad condom. It's a HARD thing to do, engineering wise. Third, god help you if you're driving at a decent speed carrying hydrogen gas compressed to 1000 atm and crash. It'll blow up worse than the Hindenburg.

---------

So anyways, sorry to rant, but as a someone with expertise in these things, I get irked when people throw out facts half-heartedly and make it seem like it's all a matter of big corporations and evil lawyers preventing a cinderella technology from making us happily every after. No, there are real scientific and engineering challenges here, not conspiracy theories.
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 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-03-06 02:18:46
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Very informative, thank you Snuffy
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By Tyffanie 2011-03-06 02:20:09
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Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Cerberus.Kalyna said:
I got gas the other day... 3.59 per gallon heard that California has it at 3.95 per gallon i *** hate this country! I BLAME OBAMA!
lol, I share your frustration but be upset with our government, don't hate our country :)
I am glad that it really has little to do with our government. Then again we do have people go around saying we are the best country like a bunch of alcoholics. Yeah, on second thought, *** this country.
I'm sure all the soldiers in our military who continue to fight for our freedom appreciate you saying, "F--- our country". Then again, if they know you, they know you have no class.
Bahamut.Jefant said:
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Cerberus.Kalyna said:
I got gas the other day... 3.59 per gallon heard that California has it at 3.95 per gallon i *** hate this country! I BLAME OBAMA!
lol, I share your frustration but be upset with our government, don't hate our country :)
I am glad that it really has little to do with our government. Then again we do have people go around saying we are the best country like a bunch of alcoholics. Yeah, on second thought, *** this country.
I'm sure all the soldiers in our military who continue to fight for our freedom appreciate you saying, "F--- our country". Then again, if they know you, they know you have no class.
he probly ment he hates are country in that people in charge have screwed things up of the years has nothing do with miltary they just got where there told to
It is not just the people in charge, it is the people not in charge. Durrrbrosi is the type of person I mentioned too. The one who spouts and/or thinks we are the most amazing country in the world like an alcoholic home from the bar. While also at the same time having misguided ideas (hay guiz blame duh govrnmeant. itz da govrnmentz fult for dose gas prices, whut du u meen ovr a duzin cuntries R in upheval in afrika/tha midul eest?) about it.

I am damn proud of my country and the people who have served and died for our freedom. Since you are so anti-America then leave the country. It will be much better without you in it.

Yup, you got me, I am just antiamerican (hai2u glenn beck/bill O')!

Leave? As always I love your amazing logic.

It is better with me in it as you in it.

fixed that for you Sir.

Seriously we should load all the republicans up on a few boats and say we're sending them off to fight terrorists then use the mexicans to build a giant turret mounted border fence (concrete and everything) and then not let the idiots back.
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By Tyffanie 2011-03-06 02:22:37
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Sylph.Dobrusi said:
I apologize to our military peeps for classless people like spicy who have no respect for the amazing job you are doing and the courage you display in the face of danger. Keep up the good work you guys!

the amazing job of them dying constantly in a fruitless war against lolterror in 2 countries (well we pulled combat troops out of the one) that we had no right to invade?

Yeah amazing job...

The only true danger in this world is the stupidity people like you spread, please stop.
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 Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-03-06 02:25:35
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Tyffanie said:
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
I apologize to our military peeps for classless people like spicy who have no respect for the amazing job you are doing and the courage you display in the face of danger. Keep up the good work you guys!

the amazing job of them dying constantly in a fruitless war against lolterror in 2 countries (well we pulled combat troops out of the one) that we had no right to invade?

Yeah amazing job...

The only true danger in this world is the stupidity people like you spread, please stop.
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 Sylph.Cossack
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By Sylph.Cossack 2011-03-08 23:01:27
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Tyffanie said:

Seriously we should load all the republicans up on a few boats and say we're sending them off to fight terrorists then use the mexicans to build a giant turret mounted border fence (concrete and everything) and then not let the idiots back.

You mad?
 Gilgamesh.Thedreamer
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By Gilgamesh.Thedreamer 2011-03-09 06:39:21
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What u discover this now ??? Lmao...
Man petrol crash have been annouced since 10 years...and Usa have 200000Billion of debt+ ongoin with an economic system totally MERGED with petrol product...who CANT go on more than 10-15 years now..
Yah Usa is in an abyssmal debt, to the point most analysts wonder if its possible they pay it back in next century.
Most Probably no.
Ironic you gave china the only way to maybe get back u're debt : ure mass production system. Why do you think patrons and capitalists all buy house and lands there now ? lmao...
 Ragnarok.Unctgtg
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By Ragnarok.Unctgtg 2011-03-09 06:55:29
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Every empire in this world has fallen at some point, we had our time, China is rising up. America has let to many people run this great nation into the ground like the Romans did. We need to go back to our roots (not slavery) but our morals and get rid of the ***.
 Fenrir.Eneas
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By Fenrir.Eneas 2011-03-09 07:30:19
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Cerberus.Kalyna said:
I got gas the other day...
3.59 per gallon

heard that California has it at 3.95 per gallon

i *** hate this country!
I BLAME OBAMA!

lol thats still cheap gasoline you are gettting compared to what we pay over here.
 Cerberus.Rayik
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By Cerberus.Rayik 2011-03-09 07:33:56
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Ragnarok.Unctgtg said:
Every empire in this world has fallen at some point, we had our time, China is rising up. America has let to many people run this great nation into the ground like the Romans did. We need to go back to our roots (not slavery) but our morals and get rid of the ***.

I agree for the most part, but our "roots" have always been fettered with scandal, lies, and violence. We're not doing anything different now, that our ancestors weren't doing the social equivalent of, hundreds of years ago.

I know it's a comedy site, but they site real sources. It's not as bad as you think it is...

As far as the US collapsing, the WORLD can't afford that to happen. We've got our fingers in a piece of everyone's pie(kinda why they all hate us), and not a day goes by that we aren't helping some other country down on their luck, low on food, etc. Or, they just happen to have resources we're interested in protecting(the Middle East oil supply). I'm not saying all these countries are going to jump at the chance to help us in return, I'm just saying if we go down, we're taking a HELL of a lot of countries with us.

My only real fear is the day China decides to cash that check and collect their due payment... "Operation: Anchorage" anyone?