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Ethical dilemma
 Ragnarok.Ashman
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-02-02 21:31:57
Odin.Gosuapple said:
Lastly the idea that you are "getting" anything from a tax refund is (in most cases) utter nonsense. The government assumed none of the risk nor shouldered any of the burden in any of your endeavors and yet forcibly took a portion of the proceeds for itself all the same. Now the government is going to give some of that back? How gracious and heartwarming...
Also, the people at these tax places are usually just trained to use the software. They aren't tax experts by any means. She made an error and it's a week later I'm being informed to send in for some of the money back. It's not "free money" really but because of the odd circumstances, and the point she made about factoring in the contributions late, it put this at the forefront of my mind :/
Phoenix.Excelior
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2011-02-03 14:03:22
Ragnarok.Ashman said: I don't normally do my own taxes. To me paying a nominal fee to H&R block to do it for me and then another small fee to "handle everything in case i get audited" is worth the small amount to have it done. Here's my problem: I am a Catholic Youth Minister at my church. I give into the collection basket every mass and i also participate in the service appeals. I also participate in Lenten practices. For those not familiar with the proceedure in Lent: Catholic people meditate over the suffering of Christ through a three part process. 1) Prayer and meditation (nuff said). 2) Fasting - ie giving up certain things as a sacrfice for the 40 days. The "no meat fridays" is one common practice. Some people give up more/less but the concept is that everytime you feel the pangs of hunger or "wanting" of whatever you gave up, you think of Christ and his sacrifice furthering your meditation. 3) Charitable Contribution (money to the poor, etc). So here's the deal: I am notoriously apathetic to responsibility. I get these things in the mail every year from people i contributed to, or the church, or whomever. This year the slips said in bold letters "PRESENT TO YOUR TAX PREPERATION SPECIALIST" or some malarky. Since it was fresh on my mind, I grabbed it and brought it. Now, a week or two later i get a call from H&R stating that i need to fill out some additional paperwork. They neglected the charitable contributions (while i was oblivious to what it was even for) and now they need me to come sign some paperwork. Apparently, i get additional deductions for the donations i make. Isn't it kind of dishonest to donate knowing I'm getting a portion back? Should i feel guilty for getting a portion back next year? Call me crazy but I was kind of awestruck that i was getting almost 50% of my contribution back. Granted it's screwing Uncle Sam who's been pounding me for years, but won't he just take it from another Joe Taxpayer somewhere down the line?
Ok so why dont you take your refund and donate it to another charity? Helping others doesnt have a fiscal year.
[+]
Ragnarok.Ashman
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-02-03 14:05:34
Phoenix.Excelior said: Ok so why dont you take your refund and donate it to another charity? Helping others doesnt have a fiscal year.
That was my resolution. It got covered up in the last page but that was the conclusion (it hadn't even occured to me):
Ragnarok.Ashman said: Odin.Gosuapple said: given your occupation volunteer position. My job is different XD Thanks for all the feedback guys. I think I'll just put it right back in like several people noted. Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said: I couldnt even pass the first line without going "wtf is this guy on?!" Ethics + Politics = "Are you STOOPID?!" Cuz this isn't a religion thread as well. Thank you all also for the mostly positive feedback. It's nice to be able to see this discussion without de-railing.
Diabolos.Megatron
Serveur: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 185
By Diabolos.Megatron 2011-02-03 14:19:44
i can't tell you what you should do thats between you and him. i can only tell you what i do. i never claim any charity i give to and when i am going in and out of stores and their asking for money and they go to give me like slips ot win a car or vacation or a pen i refuse. the
gift of giving is enough, the self scrafice to help those who are in need is waht its about.
if your comfortable with it. so be it. not like its goingto incress your return very much at all. maybe a dollar or two at the most.
 Bismarck.Helixx
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 266
By Bismarck.Helixx 2011-02-03 14:34:00
How much do you donate? 50$, 100$ maybe 500$. The state will actually CHARGE you a fee for it unless you declare it a donation. Don't be stupid and think that you get some of it BACK. You get NOTHING back. The state just is kind to say "you donate 50$, ok, we won't charge you 3$ extra for this donation."
Lakshmi.Aurilius
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1726
By Lakshmi.Aurilius 2011-02-03 14:44:34
As a tax professional myself, I find it hilarious you even think you're facing an ethical dilemma. Moral dilemma yes, ethical dilemma no.
The tax law is what it is, and you shouldn't feel guilty for getting benefit from it in this way. You may feel morally wrong for it, but it's 100% legit.
I donate just so the government doesn't get my money. I figure if I can offset my income taxes by making donations it's a win. The charity gets much needed money, and the goverment doesn't end up with my hard earned money. It's all about how you look at it.
[+]
Ragnarok.Ashman
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-02-03 15:14:47
Lakshmi.Aurilius said: As a tax professional myself, I find it hilarious you even think you're facing an ethical dilemma. Moral dilemma yes, ethical dilemma no. The tax law is what it is, and you shouldn't feel guilty for getting benefit from it in this way. You may feel morally wrong for it, but it's 100% legit. I donate just so the government doesn't get my money. I figure if I can offset my income taxes by making donations it's a win. The charity gets much needed money, and the goverment doesn't end up with my hard earned money. It's all about how you look at it.
Normative ethics is defined as "the practical means of determining a moral course of action". I don't understand why people keep questioning my correct useage of terminology :/
Ragnarok.Ashman
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-02-03 15:17:08
Quote: eth·i·cal /ˈɛθɪkəl/
[eth-i-kuhl]
–adjective
1. pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct. 2. being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice, esp. the standards of a profession: It was not considered ethical for physicians to advertise.
3. (of drugs) sold only upon Medical prescription.
Lakshmi.Aurilius
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1726
By Lakshmi.Aurilius 2011-02-03 15:19:52
That's fine. My point still stands if you happen to read it.
You're doing nothing wrong. You shouldn't feel as if you are. If you were making up fake donations, then yeah you should feel guilty.
Ragnarok.Ashman
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-02-03 15:24:55
I think it's just the stereotypical "catholic guilt". I wouldn't have bothered to care if it would have all come at once and taken a hit off of what i had to pay, but after finding out AFTER the fact and them choosing to return some of my money..... it just seemed odd. I'd rather put it back into charity than have it misappropriated by our government.
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2169
By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2011-02-03 15:28:06
Sevourn said:
charitable contributions are one of the best known and most socially acceptable tax deductions out there
i'd say accepting your tax deduction is perfectly ethical
though i can't imagine losing sleep either way
this.
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2169
By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2011-02-03 15:29:48
Ragnarok.Ashman said: I think it's just the stereotypical "catholic guilt". I wouldn't have bothered to care if it would have all come at once and taken a hit off of what i had to pay, but after finding out AFTER the fact and them choosing to return some of my money..... it just seemed odd. I'd rather put it back into charity than have it misappropriated by our government.
Don't think of it as they are giving you the donation or part of the donation back.
Think of it like this: You donated money. As a reward for donating money the Government is now "taking less" of your money.
Ragnarok.Ashman
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-02-03 15:33:17
Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Ragnarok.Ashman said: I think it's just the stereotypical "catholic guilt". I wouldn't have bothered to care if it would have all come at once and taken a hit off of what i had to pay, but after finding out AFTER the fact and them choosing to return some of my money..... it just seemed odd. I'd rather put it back into charity than have it misappropriated by our government. Don't think of it as they are giving you the donation or part of the donation back. Think of it like this: You donated money. As a reward for donating money the Government is now "taking less" of your money. Well they already took my money lol. Now i can just fill out paperwork to have them send some back. I'm getting a tax rebate from my tax return O.O
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2169
By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2011-02-03 15:35:15
Ragnarok.Ashman said: Gilgamesh.Tweeek said: Ragnarok.Ashman said: I think it's just the stereotypical "catholic guilt". I wouldn't have bothered to care if it would have all come at once and taken a hit off of what i had to pay, but after finding out AFTER the fact and them choosing to return some of my money..... it just seemed odd. I'd rather put it back into charity than have it misappropriated by our government. Don't think of it as they are giving you the donation or part of the donation back. Think of it like this: You donated money. As a reward for donating money the Government is now "taking less" of your money. Well they already took my money lol. Now i can just fill out paperwork to have them send some back. I'm getting a tax rebate from my tax return O.O
No money is taken or given from you or the US Government for State and Federal tax until you actually file.
Before that all transactions are just one borrowing from the other, you need to wait until the end of the year to settle the debts of borrowing. Only then can you make a statement about what money belongs to whom.
Ragnarok.Ashman
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-02-03 15:41:24
Right, in my opening post i described it as such: (abridged) I got taxes done by service cuz lazy. Novice preparer e-filed taxes that day. 1 week later preparer calls me and says "oops come fill out paperwork and they will send you [x amount] back. my bad". She explains that it was directly stemming from the charitable contributions she mis-filed (or didnt file i don't know). The fact that she pointed out where it stemmed from, made it stick out in my head.
Now we're back to this point.
Gilgamesh.Tweeek
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2169
By Gilgamesh.Tweeek 2011-02-03 15:50:43
I understood and understand the situation, it doesn't really make a difference if it was 1 week later or which pool of money an error had been made. Had they have filed it correctly the first time you would still get the money you are due.
Maybe I am simplifying it too much or perhaps you are over thinking it.
When I add X + Y + Z to come up with = N. I don't care what Y stood for it was supposed to be added in, if someone forgot to add Y @ any point in time I would want to rectify it to redetermine N. At no point in time should Y have been left out.
Lakshmi.Aurilius
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1726
By Lakshmi.Aurilius 2011-02-03 15:54:23
If it really bugs you that much just do this. The amount of refund that you receive each year directly attributable to your itemized deduction for charitable contributions; take that money and donate it.
You will receive the benefit again for it when you file your taxes, but if you keep it rolling forward each year, you will never see the benefit.
You'll basically just keep recycling that portion of your refund.
I don't normally do my own taxes. To me paying a nominal fee to H&R block to do it for me and then another small fee to "handle everything in case i get audited" is worth the small amount to have it done.
Here's my problem: I am a Catholic Youth Minister at my church. I give into the collection basket every mass and i also participate in the service appeals. I also participate in Lenten practices.
For those not familiar with the proceedure in Lent: Catholic people meditate over the suffering of Christ through a three part process. 1) Prayer and meditation (nuff said). 2) Fasting - ie giving up certain things as a sacrfice for the 40 days. The "no meat fridays" is one common practice. Some people give up more/less but the concept is that everytime you feel the pangs of hunger or "wanting" of whatever you gave up, you think of Christ and his sacrifice furthering your meditation. 3) Charitable Contribution (money to the poor, etc).
So here's the deal: I am notoriously apathetic to responsibility. I get these things in the mail every year from people i contributed to, or the church, or whomever. This year the slips said in bold letters "PRESENT TO YOUR TAX PREPERATION SPECIALIST" or some malarky. Since it was fresh on my mind, I grabbed it and brought it. Now, a week or two later i get a call from H&R stating that i need to fill out some additional paperwork. They neglected the charitable contributions (while i was oblivious to what it was even for) and now they need me to come sign some paperwork. Apparently, i get additional deductions for the donations i make.
Isn't it kind of dishonest to donate knowing I'm getting a portion back? Should i feel guilty for getting a portion back next year? Call me crazy but I was kind of awestruck that i was getting almost 50% of my contribution back. Granted it's screwing Uncle Sam who's been pounding me for years, but won't he just take it from another Joe Taxpayer somewhere down the line?
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