A Crafting Idea SE Should Implement.

@Zanno

so i was thinking to myself...your argument was off the topic....so we should all leave this post, start a new one, and argue about it there.

or -gasp- we could let everyone read it from the beginning and see how it evolved from the original topic. because who would read "omg im right and here is why" topic.

@wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodum

15% and SE would create a "special task force" to oversee how well it works.

15% would be ridiculous! Paying 90 gil extra for my Imperial Silver Pieces upsets me enough! lol @ the Special Task Force part, you mean to say they've had their uses, or the opposite? Wasn't sure from that one sentence alone :P

the special task force takes a LONG TIME to get anything done. i mean hell i've had the SAME CHARACTER send me a tell advertising an RMT site for 4 days now. when you call a GM and tell him he asks for the character name, the zone they were in, and the time. seriously...if it takes over 4 days to ban someone for something they can OBVIOUSLY look up (easily too since i give them the time/zone) and take care of the same day, then why does it take so freaking long?

lol /rant off

but yeah 15% but here is the kicker...who pays it the customer or the crafter?

It would probably be the crafter. The crafting system as it is is a pretty big joke to me, too much of it relies solely around chance. Wouldn't surprise me at all if another spanner was thrown into the works and crafters had to pay tax.

If that worked out that way, though, I wouldn't agree to craft for anyone. Pay to craft for somebody else? I don't think so, somehow, lol.

I didn't take time to every lengthy post about why crafters deserve to keep HQs or whatever. I do agree crafters deserve due credit for taking the time, money and effort to skill up to 100+ and their subcrafts in that they can achieve the ability to make the items they sought to make.

But as a business it works both ways. Customers seek a provider of service to create a sought item they wish to receive (HQ or not). The crafter creates the basis of circumstances for when they either break, NQ, or HQ. The crafter can decide to say "tough beans" when it breaks, give them the NQ (assuming customer is the supplier of mats), give HQ or keep HQ and repaying for lost mats.

I may not have any crafting experience, but I find it pretty silly for anyone to berate someone based on their choice of business etiquette or the customer's level of expectations. Every crafter is their own seperate branch of business from everyone else. I for one find nothing wrong with charging for service based on frequency/quantity or HQ results. Nor do I find a problem with respecting the customer's given results from their purchased materials, be it HQ, NQ or break. It all depends on how one wants to do business, but don't shun others for how they want to do things when it's their own personal business and achievement that they are free to use as they wish.

The only thing this separates is the motive one has behind crafting. Some do it strictly for money, some do it to provide open service to all, some do it for themselves, and some keep it close knit to have synth access to friends or an LS. Whatever the choice(s) may be, it doesn't make anyone wrong or stupid.

Edit: That being said, I do agree that the high end items that are extremely rare and took ridiculous amounts of time, money and effort to get to the point to even remotely have a chance of creating do at the very least deserve a mutual amount of gratuity or an agreed circumstance to keep HQ in the rare chance it is made.

i'm sorry but crafting for FREE and letting them keep an HQ on top of the FREE has an effect on the whole server. doing it for a friend is one thing since you know they will use it, but doing it for random shouters is just stupid.

on a side note, if it's free it's not a business it's a charity.

Considering the rarity of getting HQ on certain items, I honestly doubt one given HQ item would have a significant impact on the economy as a whole. It'd take alot of freebies to really start affecting the overall value of gil server-wide.

But really it all comes down to how people want to use their skill in craft. It can be used for business or as an open source service for those who want something made with materials they have or bought. Neither way is right or wrong.

not that it matters but im gunna chime in my 2 cent. first like its been said if you dont trust the crafter dont use them, 2nd GMs can return any stolen item/items, 3rd please take in to consideration crafters do has access to the AH too, i get tells daily asking me to craft Bloodwood logs. remember 1 its a waste of my time 2 i normally dont get a reward since your having me craft them to save gil. In the end crafters spend alot of gil and time leveling these crafts to 100 and most cant seem to make any gil.

not tryin to sound greedy, just backing up all crafters alike

edit to add note
Not a bad idea though drop it in the suggestion box and see if it shows up on the updates to come :D

I understand what you're saying, but the beauty of it is the crafter makes the terms and conditions. They can refuse service, make gratuity % fees for HQ or whatever. The one crafting is in complete control who they craft for and how it's done. The OP's idea was simply to make it so nobody can back out on their mutual agreement before action is taken that cannot be undone.

i understand what you're saying about one HQ, but the guy i was referring to crafts for any old joe for free. one HQ could lower the price significantly depending on how much the person selling it undercuts. futhermore, he can undercut much more than a crafter would because he got it for materials and will profit even if he undercut more than any sane crafter would.

undercutting begets more undercutting, so technically if said person were to undercut one item it would have a temporary impact on the AH.

This is true. I suppose it all comes down to knowing who to do business with. In a perfect world friends/LS mates would be free synths and anyone random joe shouting/requesting certainly needs to provide mats and at the very least a gratuity sum based on what it is being made.

As to the original topic of this post, I think it sounds like a pretty good idea. I do not know though if it would pan out as being worth while. I'm sure a lot of crafters would not want to use the system due to the previously stated comments about desire to keep the HQ synths. Anytime a crafter didn't want to use the system, despite them explaining their point of view, I would also foresee ignorant leeches causing drama over it and accusing them of being thieves because their refusal of using the system. In the end it would probably not even be worth it.

On to one of the side topics though, the RL analogy given by the OP bothered me enough to make my first post on these forums. That is a -horrible- analogy and anyone who thinks it fits lacks any real crafting experience, any real life schooling, or just didn't think it through. To the exact example that bothered me, you have a problem with your car and you go to the mechanic. You need to replace your alternator and subsequently your factory battery as a result of the alternator dying; this is your synthesis. You purchase the two synthesis items(radiator and battery, excluding all minor parts needing replacement as well), and you give them to the dealer repair center; that is your trade. The dealer repair center has multiple technicians who have spent hundreds of hours, if they are new, working on vehicles like yours to repair them efficiently and thousands of hours for the veterans; these are your crafters. Some have formal schooling prior to being a mechanic and are more knowledgable and the ones you really want working on your car, 100+3 craft. They repair the problem, return your car exactly as it is supposed to be using your parts, and call you into the service center.

Guess what? You're spending hundreds of dollars on the bill, despite you buying the parts. Why? It's called labor. You are paying for the time the mechanics have spent learning, the time the shop has spent furthering their education, and the quality of their work; how is that any different then crafting? If something goes wrong with the installation and it turns out the PCM is shorted also, guess what? You have to pay extra. Of course you can choose not to and get back your already broken car and then pay them to uninstall the parts they already installed for you. It will all cost you money though, because you are paying for a service.

If you want a real way to look at it, crafting is like a real world trade skill or education. Only in the world you can get loans and your employer to pay for it. I have only met a couple people who got their craft funded by anyone but themselves. So instead of being in debt, these people put forth the money they earned up front for this skill. The fact that people actually complain about lack of tips just astounds me. I have tipped every single synth I've ever had someone do for me, even if I spent more money than it would of cost me to buy it on the AH. The reason is because I am using someone elses time, money, and skill to obtain something I want. While I have not ever asked for any form of compensation for my crafting, I also would not even dream of giving grief to the crafters who demand it. As it has been stated many times; if you don't like it, find someone else.

The difference is your car doesn't have a random chance of suddenly exploding into a million pieces beyond repair (critical break), and does not have a random chance of suddenly turning into a Mercedes Benz (HQ). These things are not in the crafter's control whatsoever.

Lumiya that is exactly what i'm talking about! you pretty much just summed up all my gripes.

The way I see it is there's a thin line between courtesy and business when it comes to crafting.

I'll take example A as a customer who wishes to make a peanut butter jelly sandwich. Now assuming he has zero crafting skill, he probably couldn't boil water without burning down the house. However such a task to pretty much anyone over (oh lets say) 50 skill would be downright petty. Assuming the customer is able to provide the bread, peanut butter, jelly and butter knife then it should be a simple free service to help out one in need for something small.

And in example B it'd be a monumental task for a customer to ask for something complex (let's say a washing machine), which would require extensive amount of skill and precision to make, and to reach such a point would take years of training, education, money and experience to obtain. Then comes the line being drawn where all things considered including labor, skill, parts, etc. the crafter most certainly indeed deserves in their own right compensation for such an extensive request. This can be gil or the right to keep the miraculous energy free washing machine that can also bake you cookies with given compensation to the provider of materials.

Where people draw the line is up to the individual but I certainly hope it's drawn somewhere for everyone.

personally i don't make sandwiches lol. so the line doesn't really apply to me.