XIV Open Beta August 31st
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XIV Open beta August 31st
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 Sylph.Belmonth
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By Sylph.Belmonth 2010-09-08 22:57:57
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Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
There isn't a confirmed memory leak, it just seems that way upon a cursory examination. I could always be wrong.

I'll probably still get the collector's edition just for the bonus items, but I don't expect the first week of play to be particularly stable.

There's two big but separate worries I have: content, and tech.

Content: So far we're only seeing newbie content, which strikes me as odd. Most MMO devs want as much finished content in front of as many players as possible, at the earliest opportunity to find the most bugs. They're either making a calculated decision not to show us 90% of the game, which strikes me as extremely odd but maybe plausible, or they're not anywhere close to finished.

Tech: The tech is another story. There is no reason to not patch a technical bug in beta, especially a crash bug, if you have a fix. Not when you're doing daily updates. Which implies to me that the tech really is this unstable right now, and they're still desperately trying to fix it. In a post-WoW world, there's a certain quality bar expected for tech at launch, (especially be reviewers and the media), and they're nowhere near that with only about 1.5 weeks to go.

Well, they did say that they wanted the majority of the content would be locked so players that tried on the beta wouldn't get spoiled.
I suppose we will see in the release to what extent this was true.
 Pandemonium.Kajidourden
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By Pandemonium.Kajidourden 2010-09-08 22:58:22
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Leviathan.Snomm said:
As long as they figure out what is causing the crashing, I will be a happy man...that is all I ask at the minimum and I think it is funny you mention WoW because if FFXIV was made by Blizzard/Activision, this game wouldn't be coming out until Spring at the least in my opinion because all these issues would be unacceptable in their eyes.


True, I think most would agree though that they'd be willing to wait (hell the beta could run that long, or even have started later) in order to allow them to work on the issue.
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-09-08 23:01:11
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Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Siren.Enternius said:
I believe 5(ish) of the 7(ish) regions are already ingame, though a lot of underground areas are offlimits. I wouldn't just call that newbie areas seeing as how Coerthas has like LV40-osomething mobs.
I guess by newbie content I mean things like quests, missions, guildleves, and especially items, weapons, armor, classes, mobs, etc. Not just areas.

So far the game seems very light on content in this regard.
In that aspect, I agree that there's not all that much to do in FFXIV beta, but it was only up for a month and I think there's more than enough to keep anyone busy until it ends.
 Leviathan.Snomm
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By Leviathan.Snomm 2010-09-08 23:01:44
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I really have no idea how to repair the damn gear that you have under your armor that you aren't allowed to take off since it seems you need to take the item off to repair it, which is dumb as hell and the gear selection from the NPCs seems to go nowhere beyond level 1 and there is very very little of it...

I'm just happy that Jaerik is pissed too and sees how full of fail this release seems to be turning out to be and called it far before the open beta came out.
 Pandemonium.Kajidourden
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By Pandemonium.Kajidourden 2010-09-08 23:01:55
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Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Siren.Enternius said:
I believe 5(ish) of the 7(ish) regions are already ingame, though a lot of underground areas are offlimits. I wouldn't just call that newbie areas seeing as how Coerthas has like LV40-osomething mobs.
I guess by newbie content I mean things like quests, missions, guildleves, and especially items, weapons, armor, classes, mobs, etc. Not just areas.

So far the game seems very light on content in this regard.

The gear was another thing I was going to mention.

I find it odd that for my class (Archer) there is a weapon you can purchase at a shop in Gridania for Rank 8, whereas a similar feature for other classes doesn't exist(at least not to my knowledge). As far as armor goes you kind of have to put together whatever hodge-podge gear you can find that's better than your previous stuff, and I REALLY want to know exactly how the "Optimal Rank" thing works. Is there some 5 level prior, 5 level after rule? Are they totally useless before said level? It's a bit confusing.

Edit: I was also wondering would I need some sort of permissions in order to edit the wiki? I was just going to add all the carpentry and leatherworking recipes i've run into for leves and the ones they reward you with afterward if they aren't already there.
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-09-08 23:03:44
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Pandemonium.Kajidourden said:
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Siren.Enternius said:
I believe 5(ish) of the 7(ish) regions are already ingame, though a lot of underground areas are offlimits. I wouldn't just call that newbie areas seeing as how Coerthas has like LV40-osomething mobs.
I guess by newbie content I mean things like quests, missions, guildleves, and especially items, weapons, armor, classes, mobs, etc. Not just areas.

So far the game seems very light on content in this regard.

The gear was another thing I was going to mention.

I find it odd that for my class (Archer) there is a weapon you can purchase at a shop in Gridania for Rank 8, whereas a similar feature for other classes doesn't exist(at least not to my knowledge). As far as armor goes you kind of have to put together whatever hodge-podge gear you can find that's better than your previous stuff, and I REALLY want to know exactly how the "Optimal Rank" thing works. Is there some 5 level prior, 5 level after rule? Are they totally useless before said level? It's a bit confusing.
Isn't that pretty much how FFXI would work without the AH? There's not all that many NPCs that give you good deals on full armor sets or anything.

As far as the Optimal Rank thing goes, I'd be willing to bet that it uses the same system as FFXI's Level sync does for gear. I.e. x levels below the optimal rank, and you lose y amount of bonuses on the armor.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-09-08 23:04:00
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Leviathan.Snomm said:
As long as they figure out what is causing the crashing, I will be a happy man...that is all I ask at the minimum and I think it is funny you mention WoW because if FFXIV was made by Blizzard/Activision, this game wouldn't be coming out until Spring at the least in my opinion because all these issues would be unacceptable in their eyes.
Blizzard can do the "we'll ship it when it's done" philosophy because 1) they have basically three core brands, some of which they only touch once a decade, and 2) they sit on gobs of money.

The September 30th deadline for FF14 seems way too arbitrary to me, unless you consider that it's the last day of 3rd quarter as far as revenue statements go. But I may be reading into that too much.
 Pandemonium.Kajidourden
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By Pandemonium.Kajidourden 2010-09-08 23:05:47
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Siren.Enternius said:
Pandemonium.Kajidourden said:
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Siren.Enternius said:
I believe 5(ish) of the 7(ish) regions are already ingame, though a lot of underground areas are offlimits. I wouldn't just call that newbie areas seeing as how Coerthas has like LV40-osomething mobs.
I guess by newbie content I mean things like quests, missions, guildleves, and especially items, weapons, armor, classes, mobs, etc. Not just areas.

So far the game seems very light on content in this regard.

The gear was another thing I was going to mention.

I find it odd that for my class (Archer) there is a weapon you can purchase at a shop in Gridania for Rank 8, whereas a similar feature for other classes doesn't exist(at least not to my knowledge). As far as armor goes you kind of have to put together whatever hodge-podge gear you can find that's better than your previous stuff, and I REALLY want to know exactly how the "Optimal Rank" thing works. Is there some 5 level prior, 5 level after rule? Are they totally useless before said level? It's a bit confusing.
Isn't that pretty much how FFXI would work without the AH? There's not all that many NPCs that give you good deals on full armor sets or anything.

As far as the Optimal Rank thing goes, I'd be willing to bet that it uses the same system as FFXI's Level sync does for gear. I.e. x levels below the optimal rank, and you lose y amount of bonuses on the armor.


Well, yes but even in ffxi there was gear (at least in every starter town) for each archtype up to about level 10 (higher in some cases). Here you literally have nothing but level 1 stuff, that was what I was mainly getting at.
 Sylph.Belmonth
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By Sylph.Belmonth 2010-09-08 23:06:05
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Well, don't expect it to be perfect on the release, judging by the update history in FFXI:

http://zeusls.llima.net/download/ffxiupdatehistory.html

It kind of sounds that FFXI was worse to almost unplayable when there was JP only release before we got it.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-09-08 23:07:41
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Siren.Enternius said:
Isn't that pretty much how FFXI would work without the AH? There's not all that many NPCs that give you good deals on full armor sets or anything.
As a n00b in FF11 beta, NPC's were providing full armor sets up through at least level 20. Cloth, leather, scale, etc. And a whole bunch of weapon upgrades. I guess the complete lack of this is in beta is what's baffling me.

Every other MMO I've ever worked on or tested, if you have the items done, you throw them out there for testing. If you don't, how will you know they work for release? I find it hard to believe they want me still using my weathered gladius at rank 12, because that's not how real users will play. So why have it be that way for testing? It makes no sense to me.

I'm still giving SE the benefit of the doubt, but I just don't get it.
 Leviathan.Snomm
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By Leviathan.Snomm 2010-09-08 23:08:35
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In some way I wish that a couple SE employees would peruse this thread so they could understand how much potential money they will lose if the beta doesn't shape up before the release date...in all honesty, when I see a beta come out, I play it and base about 75-80% of my opinion of how the full game will play solely on how the beta plays.
 Leviathan.Hastefeet
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By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-09-08 23:09:46
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Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Siren.Enternius said:
Isn't that pretty much how FFXI would work without the AH? There's not all that many NPCs that give you good deals on full armor sets or anything.
As a n00b in FF11 beta, NPC's were providing full armor sets up through at least level 20. Cloth, leather, scale, etc. And a whole bunch of weapon upgrades. I guess the complete lack of this is in beta is what's baffling me.

Every other MMO I've ever worked on or tested, if you have the items done, you throw them out there for testing. If you don't, how will you know they work for release? I find it hard to believe they want me still using my weathered gladius at rank 12, because that's not how real users will play. So why have it be that way for testing? It makes no sense to me.

I'm still giving SE the benefit of the doubt, but I just don't get it.

my guess is to force people into crafting

thats the only logical thing i could think of

crafting also levels your primary level and stuff and theres that exp thing where if u level a class to long the benefits decrease so i'd say its to help people switch to crafting jobs too


 Pandemonium.Kajidourden
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By Pandemonium.Kajidourden 2010-09-08 23:11:12
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Leviathan.Hastefeet said:
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Siren.Enternius said:
Isn't that pretty much how FFXI would work without the AH? There's not all that many NPCs that give you good deals on full armor sets or anything.
As a n00b in FF11 beta, NPC's were providing full armor sets up through at least level 20. Cloth, leather, scale, etc. And a whole bunch of weapon upgrades. I guess the complete lack of this is in beta is what's baffling me.

Every other MMO I've ever worked on or tested, if you have the items done, you throw them out there for testing. If you don't, how will you know they work for release? I find it hard to believe they want me still using my weathered gladius at rank 12, because that's not how real users will play. So why have it be that way for testing? It makes no sense to me.

I'm still giving SE the benefit of the doubt, but I just don't get it.

my guess is to force people into crafting

thats the only logical thing i could think of

crafting also levels your primary level and stuff and theres that exp thing where if u level a class to long the benefits decrease so i'd say its to help people switch to crafting jobs too




This is what I was thinking. Make the economy nearly completely player-driven, and since most people will craft (at least the leves) for xp that could theoretically work out. The only problem there is you'll be off to a very slow start before it gets up to snuff.
 Leviathan.Snomm
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By Leviathan.Snomm 2010-09-08 23:11:15
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I'm done complaining now lol and I would like thank you for answering my questions in person...or sort of in person...Jaerik. Just knowing that the beta crashes on your computer makes me not feel so alone in this matter.
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-09-08 23:14:34
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Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Siren.Enternius said:
Isn't that pretty much how FFXI would work without the AH? There's not all that many NPCs that give you good deals on full armor sets or anything.
As a n00b in FF11 beta, NPC's were providing full armor sets up through at least level 20. Cloth, leather, scale, etc. And a whole bunch of weapon upgrades. I guess the complete lack of this is in beta is what's baffling me.

Every other MMO I've ever worked on or tested, if you have the items done, you throw them out there for testing. If you don't, how will you know they work for release? I find it hard to believe they want me still using my weathered gladius at rank 12, because that's not how real users will play. So why have it be that way for testing? It makes no sense to me.

I'm still giving SE the benefit of the doubt, but I just don't get it.
I'd be willing to bet that one of the reasons they don't have a bunch of armor at NPC stalls yet is because they wanted people to test crafting out, since that seems more likely to have glitches in it than anything else. It's easy to make an NPC sell you a weapon, but you get more data from someone synthing one from scratch.

That, and the fact that crafting is now more approachable than it's ever been, should be more than enough reason for people to just make their own armor.
 Leviathan.Snomm
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By Leviathan.Snomm 2010-09-08 23:17:21
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I still say they should give you gear until level 10 at least and then crafting can kick in even if the gear were in the NPC stall for like 10,000 or 15,000 a piece, which would stem crafting, but would also give another viable option in case of a lack of crafters.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-09-08 23:20:53
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I'm willing to buy the notion that they want the economy to be player crafting-driven. I think that's awesome if they pull it off.

But at the same time, they've provided so little variety of things to craft that it hardly seems to be a content-driver. So far the dat scrapers haven't found any replacement weapons for my rank 1 weathered gladius that I know of.

If they want to push folks towards crafting that's fine, but you gotta give them stuff to craft and for me to buy. So far I've seen one helm at rank 14, a couple pairs of gloves, a pair of shoes, and most of those turned out to be rewards from guildleves. I'm sitting on 140,000 gil but there's nothing to buy, at least that I can wear.

By comparison, at this point in FF11 beta I would have upgraded through three entire armor and weapon sets by now.
 Leviathan.Hastefeet
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By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-09-08 23:22:59
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i doubt the release will not have NPC items, i think this is so they can get peoples reactions to the new crafting system and fix any bugs that might be in it.

Also probly why barely any mats sell on NPCs, so people have to go out and mine/log/gather

i honestly think its to test everything out
 Leviathan.Snomm
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By Leviathan.Snomm 2010-09-08 23:29:27
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I might as well not play the beta because it just feels like a huge pain in my *** and if they just publicly came out and said they were simply going to test the crafting system in the beta with more items being available via NPCs in the retail version, I wouldn't be flipping out the way I am.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-09-08 23:29:39
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Maybe you guys are right. I certainly hope so.

I'm just saying that trying to manipulate player behavior through lack of content in a beta seems like a decidedly odd choice. Generally you want your open beta to have the same experience as launch, so you can see how it'll do and how players will act when you release.

Otherwise it's like releasing a car to the mass market when you've only taken the thing to 10mph in your driveway. How will you know whether or not it'll burst into flames as soon as someone hits 30? How do you know the brakes even work?

Making MMO's is really hard. I have a ton of sympathy for SE devs, especially given they're probably in crunch time and literally not going home right now. Sleeping at your desk with no weekends is standard for the last couple months, and no, you don't get paid anything for the extra hours.

But saying you're only going to put 10% of your content into beta is the same as saying you're intentionally not going to test 90% of your stuff before it goes Live. That's worthy of a O.o;; any way you look at it.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-09-08 23:29:42
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Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
Leviathan.Snomm said:
I am sporting a 6-core with ati radeon 5970 and fully up to date directX 11 so there really should be no issue besides the beta coding.
I have nearly the same rig, just with two of the 5970's. I also run at highest settings, ambient occlusion on, depth of field off, 1600x1050 but in Windowed mode so I can have a browser, etc open on another monitor.

I crash out about once every couple hours. It seems to coincide with a memory problem caused by a slow leak in the client, visible over time if you watch it with a debug monitor. I have 12GB of RAM, so I seem to crash slightly less often than my friends with less, but occasionally it will happen twice in rapid succession. There doesn't seem to be any pattern or repro case for it, and driver updates and DirectX upgrades don't have any effect.



Would someone rockin'... say:

[AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+]
[4GB PC6400 RAM]
[Nvidia GeFroce GTS250]

...notice this apparent "Leak" a lot faster (Like instantly? lol) cause that's the only thing really stopping me from enjoying FFXIV. Core design is great, and it has a lot of the charm of some of the older Non-angsty Final Fantasy games. But if I'm experiencing an issue with hardware... I can't afford to replace any components in my PC with book and tuition costs this semester. So I'm trying to figure out if my particular issue is Developer-*** up or lolPC.

All I know for sure is it's not performance related. I've ran through areas with 150+ people and while there was expected slowdown, it wasn't even as bad as the Whitegate Auctionhouse in FFXI. But when this issue shows it's head, I instantly drop to around 3-8FPS regardless of what's going on, hell, it can even happen in the title screen. The only consistancy I've found is that my Processor flatlines at 100% (Normal operation bounces between 70% and 100% with an average of 88%) until client restart, and my GPU cools to near-idle temps when this is happening.



As for content issues, Square is always arrogant, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did lock a lot of the content out. Hell, they could just be using the open beta to test the actual server stability, rather than how *** broken the game is. It's not "Impossible" for them to have a magical golden build that will be something passable at retail, but that's about as likely as... well, a Developer suddenly fixing 150,000 issues with a game two weeks before launch.

I like the core systems and flow of battle enough to buy it though, (Assuming aforementioned tech issue can be resolved) assuming all that, it's a nearly perfect foundation for Square to build upon.

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By Leviathan.Snomm 2010-09-08 23:31:00
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I just hope all the data they are getting from the crafting and the fighting will be put to decent use quickly because SE is famous for empty promises or their promises sound good, but when they are released, it is the worst form the idea could have come in with several limitations.
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By Leviathan.Snomm 2010-09-08 23:38:11
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It would seem your GTS250 is equivalent to an ATI Radeon HD 4850 from my quick searching, which will play the game like you said, but the crash seems to be based on the actual FFXIV program since that seems to be the crash message I get pertaining to the .EXE file.

Basically, yes...the instability is SE's fault, not yours.
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-09-08 23:38:12
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Odin.Zicdeh said:
...notice this apparent "Leak" a lot faster (Like instantly? lol)
It's entirely plausible, but I'm really speculating. I don't want to Armchair Programmer too much without proof. I would be pretty confident it's not your fault, though.
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By Leviathan.Snomm 2010-09-08 23:45:07
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...and to my limited knowledge, their servers seem quite stable now, but the actual FFXIV program has, what I can only attribute to be, programming issues...I have very very limited knowledge of programming, but to me it seems like someone is forgetting to dump memory when it is no longer required instead of piling up - like something is trying to infinitely refresh itself without deleting the previous load, creating several instances of the same thing leading to an unneeded pileup of data that eventually has to relieve itself...complete memory dump ie: complete program shutdown.

...or the game is trying to remember too much.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-09-08 23:49:12
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Leviathan.Snomm said:
...and to my limited knowledge, their servers seem quite stable now, but the actual FFXIV program has, what I can only attribute to be, programming issues...I have very very limited knowledge of programming, but to me it seems like someone is forgetting to dump memory when it is no longer required instead of piling up - like something is trying to infinitely refresh itself without deleting the previous load, creating several instances of the same thing leading to an unneeded pileup of data that eventually has to relieve itself...complete memory dump ie: complete program shutdown.

...or the game is trying to remember too much.


Lindblum didn't get the memo D:

I actually have only crashed out a handful of times, but I don't think I've managed a session longer than maybe 2hours without the tragic FPS drop. I usually just AltF4, since logging out and quitting causes a "Not responding" but that would put a little support to the game's code being unable to release the memory.
 Asura.Meowzma
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By Asura.Meowzma 2010-09-08 23:50:31
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Guys stop moaning about no AH and go explore.

It's not accessible but it exists. Have you ever used AH in an Alpha/Beta? It would be full of *** Feathers and Rat Tails for 100k.

It's right here:

 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-09-08 23:54:45
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There's lots of things that can cause something like a memory leak. Most commonly it's coder error, and you just forget to free something once you've used it.

However the trouble with making games for a PC is that so much is outside your control. The user might have an older version of a driver that's also bugged and leaks memory, in which case it's not your fault and you can't do anything except tell them to upgrade their drivers.

Or maybe it's certain graphics cards. Some cards handle texture memory different than others. It's nearly impossible for any one coder to be so brilliant they can cover every possible case of hardware, OS, drivers, settings, etc.

That's why these bugs can take so long to hammer out, and why it's important to get the client in front of as many users as possible, as early as possible. It's also why I'm worried they don't have any major ace up their sleeve for magically solving them in 1.5 weeks.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-09-08 23:54:56
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Asura.Meowzma said:
Guys stop moaning about no AH and go explore.

It's not accessible but it exists. Have you ever used AH in an Alpha/Beta? It would be full of *** Feathers and Rat Tails for 100k.

It's right here:
Don't you hate it when some *** quotes a huge *** picture!


I kind of liked the No-AH system in theory, it makes life much harder for the RMT that will inevitably plague the landscape, though at the same time, it made life needlessly complex for the player. Having your own store was pretty pro too. Maybe it was just placebo because of all the shiny decorations, but I swear the Retains at stands get priority when loading into the zone XD
[+]
 Fenrir.Stiklelf
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By Fenrir.Stiklelf 2010-09-08 23:55:12
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Asura.Meowzma said:
Guys stop moaning about no AH and go explore.

It's not accessible but it exists. Have you ever used AH in an Alpha/Beta? It would be full of *** Feathers and Rat Tails for 100k.

It's right here:

What proof other than that photo do you have?

I've not been watching this thread(or reading to see info on an AH).
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