Tornado Kick Damage! Did Monk Finally Get An Epic Ws?

Where did you get this data? Not trying to say you're wrong, just curious to dig into that data hoping for some more info :)

For example when Footwork first came out people noticed that +KA gear worked like +DA, but I always wondered: does it?
I mean if you have +10 DA and +10 KA, is the result during footwork +20 DA? (i.e. stacking) or is there a "priority" like with similar situations, where the game engine processes ("rolls a dice") first your DA, if no DA occurs then it processes your KA.
That would mean that KA doesn't "stack" with DA and that that 10% KA is actually worth less than 10, because it wouldn't be active all the times, but only during the times when DA doesn't proc.

Another slightly offtopic question, while delay on weapon doesn't count with footwork up, does base damage count? I'm not talking about just Dragon Kick and Tornado Kick. What about TP kicks? Is the damage on feet gear added to our base h2h damage, without even considering the damage on weapon, or does this get added too somewhere?

Also, I'm still trying to sort out WS things. Genbu's Kabuto on head is nice with a 50% modifier, but with a 30% one it loses a bit of its relevance and makes you wonder if it could be more worth to equip an Anwig, allowing you to equipping whatever you want on the other slots without really having to worry about Accuracy. I could say the same for ranged slot, taking into account bibiki vs btathlum vs luckycoin vs threw bomblet.

All the info you'll want on OAT footwork should be in the mnk forums on alla

Also base dmg doesn't count for anything w/ footwork up unless you're using a non tornado kick/dragon kick ws

It's like TPing with Soboro and WSing with Yoichinoyumi on SAM, except even your normal attacks would do a ton of damage.

Not doing the math for the OAT 2-3x because it's obvious that the weapon is broken as it beats spharai (or very close) according to my maths >_>. The OAT 2x is inferior though. It doesn't make sense that the easiest weapon to do is the best ...

Then we have no argument whatsoever then. I wasn't talking about oat x2, talking about ursine 2-3 w/ footwork.

I guess we had more of a misunderstanding than anything else.

Ok, i might be confused or something.im thinking that double attack has to be able to proc on this, maybe just under the effect of footwork. Most ppl report high end dmg of 1500ish, however with the ws i took the SS of, thats roughly 860 per hit in the three hit ws, with footwork and two misses i do about 400, one miss 800, and(full attack)=1200+ish but what if that was a fluke, and double attack kicked in 3 times thats 400X6= 2400 on bones the 12% bonus would be about 288

so 2400+280= 2680= about exactly what happend but i was /sam so the chances of DA X3 just off a brutal earring is crazy low. Just throwing that out there, whaddya think?

(please forgive me) That was a very messy post. but what I'm saying is, my simple math almost works out exactly what happened, unless I'm completely missing something.
But thats Galka for you~ lol

I personally love tornado kick, Albeit i need to work on my gear for it a bit, I still think its incredibly powerful. 1800 in einherjar on skeletons is pretty sick considering i dont have that much of a WS build for it yet. Btw, Which gorget works with this? Wiki says breeze and thunder, i have both, But is it worth giving up that 1 extra damage with faith for the ftp mod?
Also actually, the only thing im missing from tiger's Ws gear is alkys and bibiki shell.

Jaralto: Your ws did 2634. Extracting the damage bonus from that leaves 2342.

Assuming capped pDif on all hits of about 2.4, that reduces to 976 at 1.0.

You didn't specify how much TP you had when you weaponskilled. Assuming you used a gorget.

If at 100 TP, fTP potential is 2.35, +1 for each of 4 hits (2 natural, 2 DA), or 6.35.
If at 300 TP, fTP potential is 3.60, +1 for each of 4 hits (2 natural, 2 DA), or 7.60.

That leaves base damage needed at 154 to 129.

Base damage with Footwork is: 37 (skill) + 18 (FW) + 30 (Dunes) + 10 (assumed capped fStr) = 95.

That leaves between 34 and 59 as the needed WSC. With the math I've been running, hitting 50 WSC is pretty typical. (37.5% Str, 30% Vit)

Therefore the number you got is entirely believable with 2 DAs, capped pDif, around 150 TP, and 50 WSC (~97 str, 75 vit). Just extraordinarily rare.


If you applied those same conditions to a /thf SA+TK, total damage would be about 2966 on a skeleton. A bit more Str or TP would break 3k.

you forget that the 2-3 times path is a continuation of a shitty version of warfangs. Who knows what lies in the next update, the harder path might also get bumped up to 2-3 times and also have higher damage, lower delay, and acc mod, or who knows what.

Though you are right, it is odd that, if even for just this update, the easier weapon to make is godly...

In the same light tho, the... what's it called... octave club is currently an epic weapon equally as good as kraken club but easier/cheaper to obtain. After the next level cap bump octave club will be useless again except to those few who keep their DRK purposefully gimped just to reap the benefits of their knock-off Kclub.

lol wow. Thank you for laying that out for me

So. Any word on if faith torque outdoes sea gorgets or vice versa for this? Im interested to know if so, And how much difference it makes.

Gorget, always.

I really don't get where people attribute any infamous stuff to me but it's definitely not from reading carefully or doing the math or tests themselves.

My point with osode and togi was to explain to people why in practice there isn't much difference between the two body pieces.
Apparently that did go against some people's convictions, you wouldn't think people would get offended at showing them data or comparing body piece performances when math and parse reality doesn't match inflated expectations. I guess because some might have invested a lot of effort into getting one they might want to think "X is uber and Y is gimp" rather than the more correct but less impressive "X is a 2% increase over Y in these cases".

To clarify, in 2006 I was explaining that meat vs sushi and osode vs togi wasn't a big deal and you could get both to work about equally well. The mantra back there was some sort of "meat-only for MNK" (regardless of songs, mobs, stats, etc) and that Togi was the only way to go, and people had the idea that meat+togi would be orders of magnitude better than any alternative, which was simply not the case.
Back then it was all KRT bone PTs, so I posted some parse comparisons in that type of PT to give people a better idea that the difference was just a couple percent points at most.
But some people didn't bother to read, and instead would say something like "that parse has 94% hitrate from togi and 95% from osode, so Genome must think that osode gives higher hit rate...", as if I am supposed to hide the random sampling error from raw data or maybe go over hitrate cap just because I know that togi gives more accuracy than osode...

In 2008 we had new camps, new foods and new gear like usukane, but usukane was still far from obtainable for many, and people still wondered about osode vs togi. So I brought up the question of how the two would perform in new camps and PT setups, because I again heard people go with over-inflated expectations of the difference between them rather than parses or talk of fSTR, hitrate etc. I am not sure where you would get things like "spewing" especially since I don't deal in opinions, I just ask questions and try to answer them with available data, math and contributions from other people's discussion. For example in that thread Motenten worked out about a 2% to 3% max increase in total damage output from togi over osode before counting extra crits from osode's dex, which explains why peole who tried to use both didn't notice much of a difference (difficult to notice a few percent difference), and in that in this camp crit rate increase would have to be between 2% (with one acc song) and 5% (without acc song) to make up for the difference.
A 5% crit rate increase from 10DEX is actually quite possible (I showed some data on that back in 2006 when people still didn't think it possible, but years later others showed enough data that I think DEX tiers should be well-established) based on other people's more recent tests on DEX critical tiers, depending if you pass one of the main tiers, which is the case for example on bird camp from 101 to 110DEX (base plus byakko and rajas already gets around that area to let osode break the tier), which again makes the two pieces even more similar even in those camps.

On a side note yeah my bad on the AGI, I said it was a small test and it needed more confirmation but it certainly looked that way, but the error range on kickattacks was higher than I expected because of the method I was using (boreas cesti added effect), luckily later on Motenten came through with his kparser being able to recognize kicks specifically, and showed no effect, I repeated my tests using his parser and saw no effect as well. Note that I always mentioned it as a hypothetical and corrected myself within a week or so (check dates on posts).
But really this is the only way to find things out, you do tests instead of guessing, and then you repeat and ask other people to do more tests too if you see something interesting. I was right on the DEX tiers but I didn't get the kickattacks right and had to correct my first guess (some things are just harder to measure too). The base kick% rates people believed before my tests were wrong and based on an even smaller sample (I think something like just 100 attack rounds), and keep in mind back then (2006) you had to do a lot more work to collect some of this data, like making your own specialized parser more or less from scratch (no things like memlocks reading etc).

I was telling a mnk I knew that I was planning on making a footwork build, and I got laughed at :(

Old habits die hard. This is not going to catch on quickly with the community at large. Then again, there's no guarantee it will remain the dominant option at 99...

Idm tbh, it makes mnk a little different, and outparsing monks with footwork up is utterly delicious :D

Edit: Other than dune boots is there a good TP set up atm? I'd like to start building soon.

Poise Shoes, 25% haste (including shoes), Rajas + Brutal + Cobra/Usu body, and OA2-3 Ursine Claws. STP body shaves off a hit to WS; even with a 70%+ DA rate it's an improvement and you're using a damage varies with TP WS so overflow isn't quite as lossy as it could be. If you're trying to avoid your post-WS 5-hit relying on landing the offhand hit in addition to the main 2 hits, you need to WS in some form of STP beyond Rajas + Brutal - even 1 STP will do.

Nice nice, ty for that. I thought the h2h headband was junk?

I'm next in line for torque and finally got sea access and a brutal.

Cheers, time to make some confused people confused!

Wasn't there a new line of boots that had more kick damage than dunes out now? I can't for the life of me remember the name or the additional stats it had, but from what I read on wiki reports, it had 35 DMG increase to kick attacks along with whatever was already on the boot stats itself.

Poise shoes, 35 dmg, 5% haste (while footwork active)

Much better than dunes then...

Time to get farming and seeking me-thinks.

Sad thing is even though I out parse most lol sams with my mediocre gear, people will never accept me.

Poise Shoes
It ups you a damage tier at 80 with full merits and Faith Torque I think... I forgot about Melee/Bahamut's Hose though. So, taking a very quick look at MNK gear options I came up with the following builds (ignoring situational slots):




(EDIT: Or Turban/Usu legs, now I think about it. A number of potential combinations here!)



The first being the build I posted originally and the final being what I believe to be the ideal set out of existing gear. There is a certain potential for each having use depending on accuracy, but I'd aim to preserve the third build and swap for acc elsewhere before moving to the second or first build.

While I don't think we know where Ocelot Gloves come from yet, you can get Haste+3 Platinum Bangles from Eldieme Necropolis (S) ANNM. So there's another option until we find Ocelot and even after depending on whether one can obtain them easily or not.

That reminds me. Does footwork still technically rely on your h2h skill level for floor/base line of damage? Because from what I remember it simply adds onto what your base DMG was (which comes from your h2h skill to start with), thus giving a cumulative effect if you added more while footwork was active. Is this true?

I'd use brisk mask over that h2h+5 headband, the stp frees up a slot during ws, so you don't have to use something like ecphoria, and allows a diff pair of gloves to tp in than ocealot

Ok, I'm a mnk onry who's not had to worry about hit builds before.

I'm disappoint.