Tornado Kick Damage! Did Monk Finally Get An Epic Ws?

I'm actually pretty sure raging is 5 and combo is 3 (as well as pummel being 6). Which is what confuses me, the other h2h ws are accurately described when it says the number of hits (because you can't single wield a h2h and have access to ws), it accounts for the offhand in it's place. Tornado is the only one I've seen not to follow this trend.

Aye, but again just referring to your initial point you made of footwork being the situational use for subtle blow/mobs with nasty moves setup. What would be an ideal h2h for footwork use prior to the OAT/3 magians?

Care to share your math pchan? And which h2h are you talking about? The actual OAT ones or occ 2-3 times (tho can't attack 3 times, much higher da rate than oat) when referring to footwork build

So the WS hit descriptions have the offhand punch factored into the count already except TK?

@Leviathan.Pimpchan

Lets Say using your example you are giving 7.9 per hit. If you full attack in that round, main da off da kick kick then the mob is getting 7.9 x 8 = 63.2

With footwork up. Max 2 hits per round. 16 tp x 2 = 32.

32 < 63.2

Per attack round you are giving less tp unless you are not procing DA/missing hits.

Also IIRC doesnt footwork add a ton of subtle blow or something that inhibits some of the TP gain the mob gets??

I'm pretty sure, if nobody else can confirm it, I'll go out to some lessers and see if I can get a higher tp return on combo than I can tornado kick. If not, then yea, def 3 hits.

Pretty sure the only thing that does that is penance, the merit trait that adds inhibit tp onto the mob with the use of chi blast >.>

According to wiki.

My apologies, meant to clarify, Str mod was for the weapon skill not warcry, if thats what you meant. idk . Playing around with footwork in einherjar atm
did a 1510 at 100%, just did an 1855 at 300, Skele mobs, 517 attack atm with capped h2h and full usu and yellow curry, 1 bard in party doing 1 min, Also did a 1475 asuran. 12 skeles so they are semi roided, but everytime i do tornado kick my LS is like damn, Nice damage. 28 tp return with osode, 30 with usu body.

Not entirely sure about the tp~
Ps. Hope you dont mind all the run-on sentences, Was in a hurry:P

Hey Tiger, if you don't already, have you considered using spellcast for rules/conditions made for your focus up/down weapon skill setups?

I don't like spell cast, it's not specific enough for me. I have many many macros to choose from, and I pick the one I feel is best at the time.

Until I can get spellcast to read a parse, and pick my gear based on my current hitrate, then I have no interest in it.

PFT REAL men work within the confines of 10+10 sets of macros at 6 lines each and are HAPPY to have that!

jkjk

Yeah that's tough to go by. But you can give it a lot of rules/conditions. Like to use "x" set if "y" job ability is active and use "z" set if it is down. And so on.

Also makes great for auto equip/unequip for more specific conditions like weather/day/night etc.

I know you can set conditions and such, but still doesn't get it specific as I want it, don't always want a piece of gear w/ focus up for example, dnc may be proccing eva down one time I do it and another they may be not. Have a more heavy str based set for when angon is up, ect

Yeah, would be nice if it could read outside conditions other than the static routine and self based enhancements/debuffs. But alas, this is the best we got to work with for now. Either that or just make windower macros with a long set list and use each at your own judgment based on the active situation. Which would probably be best, but for the micro managing, spellcast is awesome ;3

Now here's my question, let's say I wanted to do situational ***like I do, could I program it for general purposes, let's say I fire a blank macro w/ just the ws to equip my ws gear, but if I fire a loaded macro, that my macro would override spellcast, or would spellcast override me?

Depends on your precast/midcast/aftercast settings for that action/rule. It's obvious this was made specifically for mage classes, but with some fine tuning you can make very technical melee based xmls. However, generally, spellcast is very automatic and using a macro within would cause interference I'd imagine.

Best to tweek the conditions and simply //asuran fists and //tornado kick. The xml will know what to do from there.

Soon as this last Tumbling Truffle pops Ill go run some tests on Combo. Currently with Pugilists I get pretty much exactly 5 tp per hit; no StoreTp equiped.

This is what I'll be wearing during the test:

I Went out and tested on Aura Statues In sky for a bit this is what I got, I'm pretty sure is 3 Hit
This is without footwork.
with Footwork it was similar results but I didn't bother to do much testing.

TP Return / DMG ~

11tp 700 (All 3 Hits
11tp 700
10tp 500 (assuming only fist 2 kicks landed)
6tp 400 (First and Last Kick)
5tp 300 (First or Second Kick)
6tp 400 (First and Last Kick)
11tp 700
6tp 400
10tp 600
11tp 600
10tp 400
11tp 500
1tp 160 (Last Kick Only)
11tp 600
11tp 700
11tp 600
11tp 600
11tp 600
11tp 600
11tp 600
6tp 600
11tp 500
11tp 500
11tp 600
11tp 600
11tp 700
11tp 600
11tp 700

close results on footwork

14tp 500
27tp 800
28tp 1000

Just went and tested. Lol at doing 100 WS's for something stupid like this, math is your friend.

Anyways, did it pretty much naked on lvl 40ish mobs as a 66 mnk so acc is definitely capped. Initial round gives 9 tp. Any calculating beyond that is unnecessary if you make sure you're not wearing any store tp since you can't get more than 1 tp without stp.

WS'ed 10 times
9 x 10 tp return
1 x 5 tp return

Assuming it really was a 4 hit WS, the chance of getting full TP return is .95 * .95 * .95 * .95 = .8145ish

So the chance of not getting all 4 hits at all in 10 WS is around 1 / (1-.8145)^10 or something like 1 in 20 million chance or so. I call BS on 4 hit combo.

Edit: Slight math error

Figured as much. Tornado kick is the only h2h ws I can think of that if it says number of hits, doesn't give the correct amount

I really hope if SE finds out they just fix the description rather than "fixing" the WS itself.

I'm basing my numbers on the average number of hits per round for both weapons as well as delay and number of rounds per ws (average). I'll calculate the TP given per second for two weapons, for instance : a normal one like verethragna without footwork and the OA2-3x footwork ursine claws for instance.


Note : you give base TP+3 when hitting a mob. Base TP for a delay 51 is 4.9 and base TP for footwrok is 13.0.

verethragna

D +27 delay 351 total => 4.9 base TP (store TP doesn't matter)
I'll assume /nin, brutal, 15% Kick rate, 95% accuracy, TP with 13 store tp total to calculate a average number of rounds/weapon skill.

average hits/rounds : 2.1375
average rounds/weaponskill : 7.48
TP given during a TP phase+ws on average: (2.1375*(4.9+3)*7.48 + 2*(4.9+3))=142.1
TP given per second : 60* 142.1/(351*7.48)=3.24 TP/second

(note : didn't count subtle blow but it's irrelevant to compare the relative difference)

ursine claws OAT 2-3x + footwork

average hits/rounds : 1.588
average rounds/weaponskill : 3.47
TP given during a TP phase+ws on average: 1.588*16*3.47+2*16=120.1
TP given per second : 120.1/(480*3.47)*60=4.32 TP/second



difference : 4.32/3.24=1.33

So the OAT 2-3 x ursine claws used with footwork give 33% more TP than a normal H2H. For reference :

ursine claw OAT 2x + footwork : 60*(1.47*16*3.70+2*16)/(480*3.70)=4.02 is 24% more TP given than normal H2H

normal H2H used with footwork :
60*( 1.178*16*4.48+2*16)/(4.48*480)=3.24 is about the same tp given as normal H2H

I considered the OAT 2-3x with 70% 2x rate on footwork, yes, +33% TP given and they just barely beat verethragna. Them giving much more TP to a mob is not surprising, though, isn't it ? Soboro vs hagun.

I guess you ignored the first question

"Care to share the math?"

The math is above lol.

@Unicorn.Tarowyn



Combo, Lesser Colibri, 5tp/fist MNK76/RDM38
11, 11, 6, 11, 11, 11, 6, 11, 11, 10, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 13pf, 13h, 11, 13h, 11

Raging Fists, Lesser Colibri, 5tp/fist MNK76/RDM38
13, 12, 13, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15h, 13

Dragon Kick, Lesser Colibri, 5tp/fist MNK76/RDM38
10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 5, 10

Howling Fist, Lesser Colibri, 5tp/fist MNK76/RDM38
12pf, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10

Ok. Yeah you're right. I dont understand the Howling Fist and Dragon Kick returns though.


@Pimpchan

I think you are calcing the footwork TP gain of the mob incorrectly, since as its been reported footwork adds a TP bonus to your hits, but not to the mob.

No, idc about tp given, i meant for the hagun soboro in relation to h2h vs footwork comparison.

Soboro is the samish damage has hagun yes, you didn't know ? Check the magian thread on BG, it's been done plenty of times. And it's not H2H vs footwork, it's H2H vs OAT footwork, big difference.

No. Man, you really need to brush up on your English because you reallllly suck at comprehension.


let me put it this way. You said that Ursine footwork is barely above h2h verth, but feeds way more tp (the same way that soboro is like that with hagun).

Show this math.

SHOW THE DAMAGE COMPARISON.

Can you understand that?

I will repeat it.

THE MATH YOU DID, OAT FOOTWORK VS VERTH IN TERMS OF DAMAGE, show that.

I hope you understand