Haste Comparison

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
Langues: JP EN FR DE
users online
Forum » FFXI » General » Haste Comparison
Haste Comparison
First Page 2
 Siren.Thoraeon
Offline
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: Thoraeon
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2010-05-25 10:04:03
Link | Citer | R
 
I was bored, so I decided to do some calculations about Haste, Double Attack (DA), and Triple Attack (TA). The equations used are as follows:

Used in All Calculations
BaseDamage=Time/BaseDelay
%Increase=(Damage-BaseDamage)/BaseDamage

Haste:
AdjustedDelay=BaseDelay*(1-Haste%)
Damage=Time/AdjustedDelay

Double Attack:
Damage=BaseDamage*(DA%*2+(1-DA%))

Triple Attack:
Damage=BaseDamage*(TA%*3+(1-TA%))

Here are the results of the calculations:

The Data
Note: Changing the BaseDelay and the Time does not affect the %Increase.







As can be seen in Fig. 1, DA and TA both increase damage linearly while haste increases in a hyperbolic manner, not exponential as some people mistakenly identify it. (Haste follows a hyperbolic function with asymptotes at Haste=100% and %Increase=-100%. If you don’t believe me, do the math yourself.) Figure 2 continues Haste out to 100% to demonstrate how haste would beat TA for values greater than 50% haste. Figure 3 demonstrates what the haste curve actually looks like.

From the results, I have made the following conclusions:

TA=2*DA
Haste>DA for all values of haste
TA>Haste for Haste<50%
Haste>TA for Haste>50%
Over 100% Haste is not advised.

Summary:
Haste gives increasing return which means: The more haste that you have, the bigger the increase it gives.

*If you see any errors in my calculations, feel free to add your own corrected ones.*
[+]
 Sylph.Spency
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Spencyono
Posts: 6969
By Sylph.Spency 2010-05-25 10:05:23
Link | Citer | R
 
What the ***...
[+]
 Diabolos.Torazalinto
Offline
Serveur: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 90
By Diabolos.Torazalinto 2010-05-25 10:09:14
Link | Citer | R
 
When they say "exponential" they mean "increasing returns." That's how it's always been.
 Shiva.Darkshade
Offline
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1091
By Shiva.Darkshade 2010-05-25 10:09:15
Link | Citer | R
 
That's interesting OP, but there is one fatal flaw that I would like to bring your attention to in the graph below.
[+]
 Siren.Thoraeon
Offline
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: Thoraeon
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2010-05-25 10:13:57
Link | Citer | R
 
Shiva.Darkshade said:
That's interesting OP, but there is one fatal flaw that I would like to bring your attention to in the graph below.
lol

Diabolos.Torazalinto said:
When they say "exponential" they mean "increasing returns." That's how it's always been.

I know, I just said it for all those people who get offended when it is called an exponential because it technically is not.
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2010-05-25 10:20:47
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
 Unicorn.Moldtech
Offline
Serveur: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: Moldtech
Posts: 611
By Unicorn.Moldtech 2010-05-25 10:22:56
Link | Citer | R
 
Shiva.Darkshade said:
That's interesting OP, but there is one fatal flaw that I would like to bring your attention to in the graph below.
Totally laughed my *** off on that one ^^
 Cerberus.Ciecle
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Ciecle
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-05-25 10:24:10
Link | Citer | R
 
Quote:
Haste gives increasing return which means: The more haste that you have, the bigger the increase it gives.
This is really all anyone cares to know about, but ty for trying to make it more complex then it really seems.
 Shiva.Darkshade
Offline
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1091
By Shiva.Darkshade 2010-05-25 10:27:46
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Ciecle said:
Quote:
Haste gives increasing return which means: The more haste that you have, the bigger the increase it gives.
This is really all anyone cares to know about, but ty for trying to make it more complex then it really seems.
Well to be fair he also was trying to tell us the importance of Haste/TA/DA, though I already assumed the order of importance.
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-05-25 10:30:10
Link | Citer | R
 
Shiva.Darkshade said:
Cerberus.Ciecle said:
Quote:
Haste gives increasing return which means: The more haste that you have, the bigger the increase it gives.
This is really all anyone cares to know about, but ty for trying to make it more complex then it really seems.
Well to be fair he also was trying to tell us the importance of Haste/TA/DA, though I already assumed the order of importance.
Well also the exact breakdowns for each and such which could be usefull if there was much triple attack gear
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2010-05-25 10:36:12
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-05-25 10:38:36
Link | Citer | R
 
Lakshmi.Mabrook said:
I don't think you can go higher than 100% or anywhere close to 100% Haste for that matter 8X
You could if there were no caps on it. Which might be part of the reason they put the caps in right before they made it so tier 2 job merits could go from 3 to 5. Before that people were hitting 93.3ish I think... this was when you could only get 3/5 desperate blows and haste samba didn't exist. With those you could hit a good 113.3 lol
 Cerberus.Ciecle
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Ciecle
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-05-25 10:41:19
Link | Citer | R
 
What dasva said is actually true. It would be much more relevant if we had more triple attack gear. At most we get +4% Triple attack... and based on the OP's first graph, It is pointless to have because at 10% Haste you get the same effect as +4% triple attack. And if i do say so, 10% haste is much easier to get then on every job then +4% triple attack is lol
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2010-05-25 10:42:24
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
 Ifrit.Darkanaseur
Offline
Serveur: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2328
By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-05-25 10:43:52
Link | Citer | R
 
What? Haste cap is 80%.
[+]
 Cerberus.Ciecle
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Ciecle
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-05-25 10:44:40
Link | Citer | R
 
I think he means Haste gear cap. which is 25.5% haste
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 10:46:07
Link | Citer | R
 
Technically it's 25% or 256/1024, you just need ~25.5% in gear due to rounding errors on visible haste stats.

And, uh... increasing caps anywhere would be broken and probably put DNC out of a job.
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-05-25 10:46:35
Link | Citer | R
 
Even if they raise the gear cap I doubt they will do much with the total cap.

People swinging 103 dmg weapons at a speed of about 2 per sec changed SEs mind about having max haste uncapped
 Cerberus.Ciecle
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Ciecle
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-05-25 10:49:35
Link | Citer | R
 
Ohithere Ceremonial dagger! enspells

(just the first low delay dagger that poped in my head >.>)

Actually i would find swinging a polearm 2 times /second would be actually bad ***. >.> Lol
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 10:52:33
Link | Citer | R
 
RDM can't cap gear haste nor JA haste. Apoc DRKs, on the other hand...
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-05-25 10:52:56
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Ciecle said:
Ohithere Ceremonial dagger! enspells

(just the first low delay dagger that poped in my head >.>)
Also nice since having dmg 1 makes it tpless hateless dmg
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 10:54:16
Link | Citer | R
 
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Cerberus.Ciecle said:
Ohithere Ceremonial dagger! enspells

(just the first low delay dagger that poped in my head >.>)
Also nice since having dmg 1 makes it tpless hateless dmg
This would be the most bizarre zerg strategy ever.

Somebody should totally set this up.
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-05-25 10:54:44
Link | Citer | R
 
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
RDM can't cap gear haste nor JA haste. Apoc DRKs, on the other hand...
Can cap gear /drg!!! Hell can get 25 without.

Either way Acession enspellga II!
 Cerberus.Ciecle
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Ciecle
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-05-25 10:54:47
Link | Citer | R
 
Eh, doesn't really matter about capping haste on rdm lol. Its a 183 delay dagger. If you've got that +enspells then hitting pretty fast >.> lol
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-05-25 10:55:45
Link | Citer | R
 
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Cerberus.Ciecle said:
Ohithere Ceremonial dagger! enspells (just the first low delay dagger that poped in my head >.>)
Also nice since having dmg 1 makes it tpless hateless dmg
This would be the most bizarre zerg strategy ever.

Somebody should totally set this up.
I'd say it would probably be the slowest zerg ever lol. However I have fought things like that for low man stuff. Unfortunately I can't get Mkris to garunteed 0 dmg on mobs without some kind of dmg resistance. Unless negative Cratio counts but I don't think so...
 Leviathan.Pimpchan
Offline
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: pchan
Posts: 756
By Leviathan.Pimpchan 2010-05-25 10:57:06
Link | Citer | R
 
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
RDM can't cap gear haste nor JA haste. Apoc DRKs, on the other hand...
RDM can cap gear haste, shut the *** up.
[+]
 Cerberus.Ciecle
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Ciecle
Posts: 191
By Cerberus.Ciecle 2010-05-25 10:59:04
Link | Citer | R
 
How long did it take before a troll popped? 53 mins?
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2010-05-25 11:00:28
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-25 11:01:22
Link | Citer | R
 
Leviathan.Pimpchan said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
RDM can't cap gear haste nor JA haste. Apoc DRKs, on the other hand...
RDM can cap gear haste, shut the *** up.
Excuse moi for not considering /DRG. It's close enough without though (24.xx%) so w/e, my bad.
 Leviathan.Pimpchan
Offline
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: pchan
Posts: 756
By Leviathan.Pimpchan 2010-05-25 11:01:49
Link | Citer | R
 
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
RDM can't cap gear haste nor JA haste. Apoc DRKs, on the other hand...
Can cap gear /drg!!! Hell can get 25 without.

Either way Acession enspellga II!
don't need /drg.
[+]
First Page 2