Kurodachi Or Radennotachi?

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Kurodachi or Radennotachi?
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 Cerberus.Novas
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By Cerberus.Novas 2010-05-18 17:17:40
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Just want some info on these two new GKs and if they are worth it in the final stage
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-19 00:10:26
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Hagun generally beats Radennotachi, Kurodachi will usually beat Hagun when played well and TP feed is not an issue. "Worth it" is relative; the improvement is relatively small but still there.
 Asura.Shambo
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By Asura.Shambo 2010-05-19 00:11:50
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played well how?
 Bahamut.Stanflame
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By Bahamut.Stanflame 2010-05-19 00:15:44
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Hagun generally beats Radennotachi, Kurodachi will usually beat Hagun when played well and TP feed is not an issue. "Worth it" is relative; the improvement is relatively small but still there.

With the right gear Rindo, and soboro can do better than hagun also.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-19 00:23:36
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Bahamut.Stanflame said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Hagun generally beats Radennotachi, Kurodachi will usually beat Hagun when played well and TP feed is not an issue. "Worth it" is relative; the improvement is relatively small but still there.

With the right gear Rindo, and soboro can do better than hagun also.
^ trufax
Asura.Shambo said:
played well how?
WSing aggressively and optimizing your TP set around Kuro's 464 delay.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-05-19 00:28:44
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Raddenotachi isn't worth it imho...the Efunotachi is a minor difference in base dmg, but the other stats they have are sick...atm i'm doing the "mini Amano" Efunotachi, which has added effect att-10, and only 5 base dmg less than the Raddenotachi. Awesome added effects > 5 base dmg imho
 Sylph.Vincentius
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By Sylph.Vincentius 2010-05-19 00:30:29
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Ifrit.Eikechi said:
Raddenotachi isn't worth it imho...the Efunotachi is a minor difference in base dmg, but the other stats they have are sick...atm i'm doing the "mini Amano" Efunotachi, which has added effect att-10, and only 5 base dmg less than the Raddenotachi. Awesome added effects > 5 base dmg imho

*sigh*
[+]
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2010-05-19 00:34:43
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The OAT GKT can be setup to have a 5 hit build while keeping max haste (-1 b/c you have to use usu feet over fuma) if you have the right gear.

This will require you to have both Usu Body and Usu Feet along with some other STP equips and a very specific set of WS gears.

If you do have these items the OAT Gkt would be quite powerful.

All the other GKT are worthless b/c if you are in a long fight with a high def mob (cerb/khim) Hagun is going to be the most useful.

Any other situation your going to most likely be using polearm, so ehh.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-05-19 00:35:32
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Sylph.Vincentius said:
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
Raddenotachi isn't worth it imho...the Efunotachi is a minor difference in base dmg, but the other stats they have are sick...atm i'm doing the "mini Amano" Efunotachi, which has added effect att-10, and only 5 base dmg less than the Raddenotachi. Awesome added effects > 5 base dmg imho

*sigh*

what? i had a discussion with one of the ffxi math dudes that use these forums on another thread, and they said that base dmg isn't that comparable in GK WS dmg, so i'd definitely take the nice added effect over nothing (which is basically what the 5 base dmg amounts to given the WSs you use on GK)
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-19 00:53:36
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Att-10 is nothing on the mobs you'd use GKT against, especially since you blink tank ***. Get a defense down or eva down one instead if you're trying to boost your entire group depending on how your shellmates are about using the right food and gear. Even then, be aware that proc rate seems to be affected by level correction.

Even so I have a feeling you're twisting somebody's words at least a little, albeit unintentionally.
 Seraph.Rafik
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By Seraph.Rafik 2010-05-19 00:55:43
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Why is Radennotachi a Shinsoku model. That ***is fugly...
 Bahamut.Stanflame
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By Bahamut.Stanflame 2010-05-19 00:58:10
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Midgardsormr.Frobeus said:
The OAT GKT can be setup to have a 5 hit build while keeping max haste (-1 b/c you have to use usu feet over fuma) if you have the right gear.

This will require you to have both Usu Body and Usu Feet along with some other STP equips and a very specific set of WS gears.

If you do have these items the OAT Gkt would be quite powerful.

All the other GKT are worthless b/c if you are in a long fight with a high def mob (cerb/khim) Hagun is going to be the most useful.

Any other situation your going to most likely be using polearm, so ehh.
Rindo, soboro, Radtedodatchi, and OAT GKT is all you really need if you have the other gear's. Usu,vel/speed, ws gear etc.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-05-19 01:01:43
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evade down or acc down doesn't sound too bad actually...-def is nice too i suppose...i'm at the cross roads trial now, so i'll give it a few days to ponder which final one i'll get lol
 Phoenix.Premier
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By Phoenix.Premier 2010-05-19 10:19:39
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For the life of me I just can't wrap my head around why a 20% increase in base dmg(dmg89) over Hagun (dmg75) fail to allow Radennotachi to strongly contend enough to recommend it to someone? This is only the first stage of the magian trials to be rolled out.....who knows what might be added in the next step? + Delay +STR etc

I'm gonna work on Radennotachi and Kurodachi myself.... but I just one of those moments in my mind where I get really tired of so many things in this game being so unintuitive. Why can't one expect to be able to draw a simple conclusion when looking at a weapons stats? (rhetorical) I've said this since 2003...SE doesn't seem to understand that digging through vague stats and poor item descriptions while arguing and speculating with/against other players isn't what makes the game fun.

Hagun is an awesome weapon. It's held the throne for a long time in the realm of pre-relic GKTs. I just think right now alot of sams are bucking at anything pointing to Hagun being a thing of the past.


 Valefor.Ryukuro
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By Valefor.Ryukuro 2010-05-19 10:45:46
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Well, I have held the completed 89 DMG Radennotachi for quite a while now. While it will never compare to Hagun for YGK Spam it is however a *** beast with Tachi: Rana. If you have the right gear set for it you easily do 1k+ Ranas almost every single time. In meripo (yes i know LOL birds) I spammed Rana with Raden and shat all over the full usu Hagun SAMs spamming Gekko, made a *** fool of them... and when it comes to events like Sea/Sky/HNM where you DO get a chance to Store TP regularly past 100% Radennotachi is the clear winner. It will never outdo the Hagun for YGK spam but it can compete with Rana. That being said, Tachi: Rana on many higher lvl, high def mobs is less effective compared to YGK, so in some cases is better to use Hagun.

If using /THF and can Store TP past 200 often Raden also wins, if spamming SATA at 100% obvious choice is Hagun. Try to be open minded, try different ***out, see what works for you, all i can say is Radennotachi IS worth your trouble and if you can is good to have it AND Hagun, don't get this and sell Hagun, big mistake you will want it back at some point =) I use both equally, nothing better than popping out 1400-2k ranas =) blows peoples minds xDD

(edit: inb4 why the *** weren't you using polearm on birds haha yes i normally do xD)
 Bahamut.Silvarion
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By Bahamut.Silvarion 2010-05-19 11:03:57
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Radenno is doin like 20-50dmg/hit more than hagun
+ that 200-300 dmg+ on Rana, but at YGK most of the
time its about 300 dmg less than hagun.

atm i cant sell hagun, cuz Radenno do not let me say
yes, no hagun need.

BUT, new Update = New Trials = MAYBE Radenno will beat
the ***outta Hagun,... i really hope so hehe
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-19 12:25:50
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Premier said:
For the life of me I just can't wrap my head around why a 20% increase in base dmg(dmg89) over Hagun (dmg75) fail to allow Radennotachi to strongly contend enough to recommend it to someone? This is only the first stage of the magian trials to be rolled out.....who knows what might be added in the next step? + Delay +STR etc

I'm gonna work on Radennotachi and Kurodachi myself.... but I just one of those moments in my mind where I get really tired of so many things in this game being so unintuitive. Why can't one expect to be able to draw a simple conclusion when looking at a weapons stats? (rhetorical) I've said this since 2003...SE doesn't seem to understand that digging through vague stats and poor item descriptions while arguing and speculating with/against other players isn't what makes the game fun.

Hagun is an awesome weapon. It's held the throne for a long time in the realm of pre-relic GKTs. I just think right now alot of sams are bucking at anything pointing to Hagun being a thing of the past.
TP Bonus. It's not counterintuitive at all when you consider YGK are damage varies with TP WS.
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-05-19 12:30:46
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Not going to bother manually typing in the quote stuff. Nightfyre, I think he was assuming the fact that a 20% increase in base DMG would be equal to a +20% increase in damage. Of course, it wouldn't, because a +DMG increase doesn't take into account STR in any way, so the increase would be something like a 18% increase give or take.

That said, I still believe it would beat Hagun just because of the fact that you would do 20% more DoT damage (Again not considering STR or Attack).
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-19 12:36:07
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Good point, that may well be it.

Without taking pDIF into account, Radennotachi loses to Hagun by ~2%. When you consider that a greater proportion of Radennotachi's damage is subject to relatively low pDIF (ie lower WS:TP split with WS that receive a pDIF boost) it falls behind further. Future Magian trials may change this, but for the time being it's the inferior option even when engaged fulltime.

EDIT: Also, it's not 20% even during TP phase due to fSTR.
 Phoenix.Premier
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By Phoenix.Premier 2010-05-19 13:03:27
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I was just saying +20% overall DoT should make Radenn worth recommending if Hagun adds +20% on the WS phase. But I see now, from other research since my last statement, that Radenn is a weapon that specializes in 100tp Rana and 200+ tp situations.

Its not that Radenn isn't a great weapon, its the fact that it doesn't replace Hagun for tp spam and YGK below 200tp. My previous post was more about the fact that people don't wanna say that. They would rather say "just forget about it, its not worth it" when someone asks how good it is(imo just to preserve Haguns standing).
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-05-19 13:26:52
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That 2% goes away rapidly the second you start using Sekkanoki (since TP Bonus doesn't apply to Sekkanoki WS) to correct TP overflow and/or using Rana for self darkness.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-19 13:31:22
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It doesn't give +20% to DoT. You're working off a very incomplete understanding of damage mechanics if you believe what you're saying Premier. Further, if you're using Rana for anything except self-SC, you should be using polearm instead. You're also assuming an even split between WS and TP damage and acting like pDIF is comparable in each phase, which is far from the truth where SAM is concerned.
Linear said:
That 2% goes away rapidly the second you start using Sekkanoki (since TP Bonus doesn't apply to Sekkanoki WS) to correct TP overflow and/or using Rana for self darkness.
Fades but generally doesn't disappear, especially given what I said about the real margin being more than 2%. I won't deny there are situations where Raden will beat Hagun, but as a general rule Hagun is superior.
 Phoenix.Premier
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By Phoenix.Premier 2010-05-19 20:07:13
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No need to bold ***and make little snide attacks at what I said.... I thought I said in the beginning I didn't understand the math enough which was part of my gripe. If I did I wouldn't have the concern at all. My problem was with the fact that its even necessary to understand the math to make the choice in the first place but yet the reply is "It's generally inferior".Pardon me for asking why.SE could do a hell of a lot better job describing the performance that a weapon will give in its item description.The comparison to the Hagun was really a sidebar.......

The 20% increase I was talking about was the fact that 14 is 20ish % of 75 (don't rip me over the remainder). 18 being the amount of base dmg Raden has (89) over Hagun (75)

"***is situational" or "It has it's uses" sounds alot better than "Its generally inferior to Hagun".
 Sylph.Vincentius
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By Sylph.Vincentius 2010-05-19 20:18:49
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Sadly, it -IS- generally inferior. I liked the idea of it when I first saw it, then was kinda disappointed after the math was run.

Get it if you want it, it's just not the best.
 Phoenix.Premier
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By Phoenix.Premier 2010-05-19 20:24:51
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Yea hurts to hear, but I'm still hopefull that the next set of magian quests allow it to go further up in dmg.Maybe then, we'll see.
 Sylph.Vincentius
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By Sylph.Vincentius 2010-05-19 20:26:37
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I'm just hoping that Hagun gets buffs as well. Not holding my breath, but yeah.
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2010-05-19 20:33:28
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Sylph.Vincentius said:
I'm just hoping that Hagun gets buffs as well. Not holding my breath, but yeah.
Hagun with DMG+8 gogogo
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-05-27 04:05:35
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Did anybody do any math on the STR+ att+ Efunotachi? (I believe its str+4 att+12 (maybe +15)
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-27 09:03:02
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Even Raden would be better.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-05-27 09:18:58
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Kurodachi is a monster of a weapon even if you don't build a 5hit. /DRG with Wyvern Earring and the OAT processing on Jump is nothing short of insanity. And this is just the beginning, it's no secret Magian weapons are goign to continue to be upgraded, if getting Krabkatoa shells is a reasonable feat for you, grab that Kurodachi.

Radennotachi is Okay... I prefer it in /THF situations, Hagun is better, but I can't force myself to buy one again (Sold at height of inflation for 16m, but with the level raise comming, the upper echelon of gear has been cast into doubt).

But who knows what magian trials will come after for both. If you can, grab both, you lose nothing but a little time, and maybe some EXP on Lamprey Lord XD
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