Haste Is NOT Exponential...

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
Langues: JP EN FR DE
users online
Forum » FFXI » General » Haste is NOT exponential...
Haste is NOT exponential...
First Page 2 3 ... 6 7 8 ... 16 17 18
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-12 10:39:51
Link | Citer | R
 
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Veg, where is your delay/60's in that table? :P

Leaving out the most important numbers again?! lol
You keep leaving out the most important fact that you should be comparing attack speeds and not delays. And that the entire point of all this is in the end is dmg. Which given exactly the same everything else but changing haste will not be a linear increase in the slightest

It was stated in the first page that its very obvious damage increases as you attack faster. Anyone can see that. The post was made to compare haste vs delay. Did you even read the OP or just jump in? lol
Responded to your previous post btw, in case you missed it.
[+]
 Bismarck.Chasuro
Offline
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Chasuro
Posts: 1921
By Bismarck.Chasuro 2010-05-12 10:41:33
Link | Citer | R
 
Sylph.Spency said:
mathfags
 Phoenix.Kojo
Forum Moderator
Offline
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: AnnaMolly
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-12 10:42:47
Link | Citer | R
 
This thread makes my pee-pee feel funny.
 Leviathan.Duvessa
Offline
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Veronika
Posts: 287
By Leviathan.Duvessa 2010-05-12 10:42:59
Link | Citer | R
 
Tigerwoods said:
24,000 delay = 24,000/60 = 400 seconds

1000 delay = 1000/60 = 16.66666667 seconds

800 delay = 800/60 = 13.333333 seconds

600 delay = 600/60 = 10 seconds

400 delay = 400/60 = 6.6666667 seconds

13.3333/16.6666 = 20% haste (0.8000012000048000192000768003072 of the delay)
10/16.6666 = 40% haste (0.6000024000096000384001536006144 of the delay)
6.6666/16.6666 = 60% haste (0.3999975999903999615998463993856 of the delay)

The haste is still linear. Look at the seconds per attack in comparison to the base delay of 1000 as clearly illustrated above.

The damage returns off the attacks will be roughly exponential, but you're also not counting the rate of accuracy so it's not 100% accurate.
[+]
 Shiva.Flionheart
Offline
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-12 10:43:44
Link | Citer | R
 
Bismarck.Chasuro said:
Sylph.Spency said:
mathfags


Here comes the holier than thou attitude again.

Let me guess, none of us have a life?
 Sylph.Rawkhawk
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 294
By Sylph.Rawkhawk 2010-05-12 10:44:33
Link | Citer | R
 
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Bismarck.Chasuro said:
Sylph.Spency said:
mathfags
Here comes the holier than thou attitude again. Let me guess, none of us have a life?

Or girlfriends!
 Leviathan.Duvessa
Offline
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Veronika
Posts: 287
By Leviathan.Duvessa 2010-05-12 10:44:53
Link | Citer | R
 
Sylph.Rawkhawk said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Bismarck.Chasuro said:
Sylph.Spency said:
mathfags
Here comes the holier than thou attitude again. Let me guess, none of us have a life?

Or girlfriends!

I have a girlfriend o.O got a problem with it?
 Shiva.Flionheart
Offline
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-12 10:45:38
Link | Citer | R
 
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Sylph.Rawkhawk said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Bismarck.Chasuro said:
Sylph.Spency said:
mathfags
Here comes the holier than thou attitude again. Let me guess, none of us have a life?

Or girlfriends!

I have a girlfriend o.O got a problem with it?

Your hand doesn't count.
 Phoenix.Kojo
Forum Moderator
Offline
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: AnnaMolly
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-12 10:45:56
Link | Citer | R
 
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Sylph.Rawkhawk said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Bismarck.Chasuro said:
Sylph.Spency said:
mathfags
Here comes the holier than thou attitude again. Let me guess, none of us have a life?
Or girlfriends!
I have a girlfriend o.O got a problem with it?

Your hand doesn't count.
 Leviathan.Duvessa
Offline
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Veronika
Posts: 287
By Leviathan.Duvessa 2010-05-12 10:46:29
Link | Citer | R
 
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Sylph.Rawkhawk said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Bismarck.Chasuro said:
Sylph.Spency said:
mathfags
Here comes the holier than thou attitude again. Let me guess, none of us have a life?

Or girlfriends!

I have a girlfriend o.O got a problem with it?

Your hand doesn't count.
 Sylph.Spency
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Spencyono
Posts: 6969
By Sylph.Spency 2010-05-12 10:46:40
Link | Citer | R
 
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Sylph.Rawkhawk said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Bismarck.Chasuro said:
Sylph.Spency said:
mathfags
Here comes the holier than thou attitude again. Let me guess, none of us have a life?

Or girlfriends!

I have a girlfriend o.O got a problem with it?

Your hand doesn't count.

Hands are more of a booty call
 Sylph.Rawkhawk
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 294
By Sylph.Rawkhawk 2010-05-12 10:46:42
Link | Citer | R
 
Hahahaha classic.
 Cerberus.Saithorx
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Saithorx
Posts: 85
By Cerberus.Saithorx 2010-05-12 10:47:40
Link | Citer | R
 
Using 600 delay weapon as example. (2nd column is converted into seconds)
If you put Column 1 and 2 together, it is very linear.
If you put Column 1 and 3 together, it is not.
Haste delay swings per minute increase vs base delay
0 10.00 6.00 0.00
1 9.90 6.06 0.06
2 9.80 6.12 0.12
3 9.70 6.19 0.19
4 9.60 6.25 0.25
5 9.50 6.32 0.32
6 9.40 6.38 0.38
7 9.30 6.45 0.45
8 9.20 6.52 0.52
9 9.10 6.59 0.59
10 9.00 6.67 0.67
11 8.90 6.74 0.74
12 8.80 6.82 0.82
13 8.70 6.90 0.90
14 8.60 6.98 0.98
15 8.50 7.06 1.06
16 8.40 7.14 1.14
17 8.30 7.23 1.23
18 8.20 7.32 1.32
19 8.10 7.41 1.41
20 8.00 7.50 1.50
21 7.90 7.59 1.59
22 7.80 7.69 1.69
23 7.70 7.79 1.79
24 7.60 7.89 1.89
25 7.50 8.00 2.00
26 7.40 8.11 2.11
27 7.30 8.22 2.22
28 7.20 8.33 2.33
29 7.10 8.45 2.45
30 7.00 8.57 2.57
31 6.90 8.70 2.70
32 6.80 8.82 2.82
33 6.70 8.96 2.96
34 6.60 9.09 3.09
35 6.50 9.23 3.23
36 6.40 9.38 3.38
37 6.30 9.52 3.52
38 6.20 9.68 3.68
39 6.10 9.84 3.84
40 6.00 10.00 4.00
41 5.90 10.17 4.17
42 5.80 10.34 4.34
43 5.70 10.53 4.53
44 5.60 10.71 4.71
45 5.50 10.91 4.91
46 5.40 11.11 5.11
47 5.30 11.32 5.32
48 5.20 11.54 5.54
49 5.10 11.76 5.76
50 5.00 12.00 6.00
51 4.90 12.24 6.24
52 4.80 12.50 6.50
53 4.70 12.77 6.77
54 4.60 13.04 7.04
55 4.50 13.33 7.33
56 4.40 13.64 7.64
57 4.30 13.95 7.95
58 4.20 14.29 8.29
59 4.10 14.63 8.63
60 4.00 15.00 9.00
61 3.90 15.38 9.38
62 3.80 15.79 9.79
63 3.70 16.22 10.22
64 3.60 16.67 10.67
65 3.50 17.14 11.14
66 3.40 17.65 11.65
67 3.30 18.18 12.18
68 3.20 18.75 12.75
69 3.10 19.35 13.35
70 3.00 20.00 14.00
71 2.90 20.69 14.69
72 2.80 21.43 15.43
73 2.70 22.22 16.22
74 2.60 23.08 17.08
75 2.50 24.00 18.00
76 2.40 25.00 19.00
77 2.30 26.09 20.09
78 2.20 27.27 21.27
79 2.10 28.57 22.57
80 2.00 30.00 24.00
[+]
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2010-05-12 10:47:48
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-12 10:48:18
Link | Citer | R
 
Accuracy is independent from haste. 10% haste's % increase a 20% hitrate would be the exact same as 10% haste's % increase at 95% hitrate.

Also, the number of attacks gained is not linear, nor is the attack speed.

Also, your results are wrong.

Your numbers are upside down.

16.666/6.666 = 2.5 x 100 = 250% increase in number of seconds.

6.6666666666666/16.66666666666666 = .4 x 100 = 40% of the number of seconds as 16.666666~


The 1/(new delay/old delay) formula. The 1/ portion serves to flip the 6.666 and the 16.666 into their correct positions. You're comparing them backwards.
[+]
 Shiva.Flionheart
Offline
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-12 10:48:30
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Saithorx said:
Using 600 delay weapon as example.
If you put Column 1 and 2 together, it is very linear.
If you put Column 1 and 3 together, it is not.
Haste delay swings per minute increase vs base delay
0 10.00 6.00 0.00
1 9.90 6.06 0.06
2 9.80 6.12 0.12
3 9.70 6.19 0.19
4 9.60 6.25 0.25
5 9.50 6.32 0.32
6 9.40 6.38 0.38
7 9.30 6.45 0.45
8 9.20 6.52 0.52
9 9.10 6.59 0.59
10 9.00 6.67 0.67
11 8.90 6.74 0.74
12 8.80 6.82 0.82
13 8.70 6.90 0.90
14 8.60 6.98 0.98
15 8.50 7.06 1.06
16 8.40 7.14 1.14
17 8.30 7.23 1.23
18 8.20 7.32 1.32
19 8.10 7.41 1.41
20 8.00 7.50 1.50
21 7.90 7.59 1.59
22 7.80 7.69 1.69
23 7.70 7.79 1.79
24 7.60 7.89 1.89
25 7.50 8.00 2.00
26 7.40 8.11 2.11
27 7.30 8.22 2.22
28 7.20 8.33 2.33
29 7.10 8.45 2.45
30 7.00 8.57 2.57
31 6.90 8.70 2.70
32 6.80 8.82 2.82
33 6.70 8.96 2.96
34 6.60 9.09 3.09
35 6.50 9.23 3.23
36 6.40 9.38 3.38
37 6.30 9.52 3.52
38 6.20 9.68 3.68
39 6.10 9.84 3.84
40 6.00 10.00 4.00
41 5.90 10.17 4.17
42 5.80 10.34 4.34
43 5.70 10.53 4.53
44 5.60 10.71 4.71
45 5.50 10.91 4.91
46 5.40 11.11 5.11
47 5.30 11.32 5.32
48 5.20 11.54 5.54
49 5.10 11.76 5.76
50 5.00 12.00 6.00
51 4.90 12.24 6.24
52 4.80 12.50 6.50
53 4.70 12.77 6.77
54 4.60 13.04 7.04
55 4.50 13.33 7.33
56 4.40 13.64 7.64
57 4.30 13.95 7.95
58 4.20 14.29 8.29
59 4.10 14.63 8.63
60 4.00 15.00 9.00
61 3.90 15.38 9.38
62 3.80 15.79 9.79
63 3.70 16.22 10.22
64 3.60 16.67 10.67
65 3.50 17.14 11.14
66 3.40 17.65 11.65
67 3.30 18.18 12.18
68 3.20 18.75 12.75
69 3.10 19.35 13.35
70 3.00 20.00 14.00
71 2.90 20.69 14.69
72 2.80 21.43 15.43
73 2.70 22.22 16.22
74 2.60 23.08 17.08
75 2.50 24.00 18.00
76 2.40 25.00 19.00
77 2.30 26.09 20.09
78 2.20 27.27 21.27
79 2.10 28.57 22.57
80 2.00 30.00 24.00

THIS THREAD ISN'T ABOUT HASTE ANYMORE IDIOT!
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-05-12 10:49:43
Link | Citer | R
 
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Leviathan.Duvessa said:
Veg, where is your delay/60's in that table? :P Leaving out the most important numbers again?! lol
You keep leaving out the most important fact that you should be comparing attack speeds and not delays. And that the entire point of all this is in the end is dmg. Which given exactly the same everything else but changing haste will not be a linear increase in the slightest
It was stated in the first page that its very obvious damage increases as you attack faster. Anyone can see that. The post was made to compare haste vs delay. Did you even read the OP or just jump in? lol
I did. I believe your question was why do people say it is exponential when delay vs haste is linear.

And it's because delay vs haste is a useless comparison. That in no way shape or form can be related to increases in dmg without doing a bit of math which would end up with your exponential increase of attack speed anyways.

The reason people say it is not linear is because the increase in attack speed is not linear. It increases. Which can be directly used to figure out increases in ws frequency and overall dmg.
[+]
 Cerberus.Saithorx
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Saithorx
Posts: 85
By Cerberus.Saithorx 2010-05-12 10:50:18
Link | Citer | R
 
damn, too late? afk running from cops in the nudes for exercise.
[+]
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-12 10:50:58
Link | Citer | R
 
The *** is this thread?

Nobody gives a ***about haste vs delay, we care about haste's returns with respect to DoT...
[+]
 Shiva.Flionheart
Offline
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-12 10:51:05
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Saithorx said:
damn, too late? afk running from cops in the nudes for exercise.

It's about us mocking Duvessa about having a hand girlfriend, you're more than welcome to join in
 Sylph.Spency
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Spencyono
Posts: 6969
By Sylph.Spency 2010-05-12 10:52:01
Link | Citer | R
 
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Cerberus.Saithorx said:
damn, too late? afk running from cops in the nudes for exercise.

It's about us mocking Duvessa about having a hand girlfriend, you're more than welcome to join in

Everyone knows any guy who frequents the internet is far too socially awkward to have a girlfriend IRL! Not to mention to there's no such thing as a girl on the internet!
 Cerberus.Saithorx
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Saithorx
Posts: 85
By Cerberus.Saithorx 2010-05-12 10:52:07
Link | Citer | R
 
we all have one of those. It's nothing special.
[+]
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-12 10:52:28
Link | Citer | R
 
Sylph.Spency said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Cerberus.Saithorx said:
damn, too late? afk running from cops in the nudes for exercise.

It's about us mocking Duvessa about having a hand girlfriend, you're more than welcome to join in

Everyone knows any guy who frequents the internet is far too socially awkward to have a girlfriend IRL! Not to mention to there's no such thing as a girl on the internet!
Poupee is a girl :(
 Sylph.Rawkhawk
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 294
By Sylph.Rawkhawk 2010-05-12 10:52:47
Link | Citer | R
 
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
The *** is this thread? Nobody gives a ***about haste vs delay, we care about haste's returns with respect to DoT...

Yea but that's obviously exponential, we want to debate something obscure and pointless!
 Cerberus.Saithorx
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Saithorx
Posts: 85
By Cerberus.Saithorx 2010-05-12 10:52:55
Link | Citer | R
 
wait... some people could have no hands I suppose. I'd assume they aren't typing in this thread though.
[+]
 Phoenix.Kojo
Forum Moderator
Offline
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: AnnaMolly
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-12 10:52:59
Link | Citer | R
 
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Cerberus.Saithorx said:
damn, too late? afk running from cops in the nudes for exercise.
It's about us mocking Duvessa about having a hand girlfriend, you're more than welcome to join in

Call it a.. Girlhand? o.o
 Shiva.Flionheart
Offline
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-12 10:53:13
Link | Citer | R
 
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Sylph.Spency said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Cerberus.Saithorx said:
damn, too late? afk running from cops in the nudes for exercise.

It's about us mocking Duvessa about having a hand girlfriend, you're more than welcome to join in

Everyone knows any guy who frequents the internet is far too socially awkward to have a girlfriend IRL! Not to mention to there's no such thing as a girl on the internet!
Poupee is a girl :(

IT'S A TRAP!
Offline
Posts: 1136
By semimmortal 2010-05-12 10:53:31
Link | Citer | R
 
Excuse my terribad math solving brain, was pretty bored at work and decided to play around with google spreadsheet.
Does this work?



Graph's based on Delay's %Decrease vs Haste.

I'm playing around with numbers, so I hope it doesn't get to anyone's nerves lol.
[+]
 Sylph.Spency
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Spencyono
Posts: 6969
By Sylph.Spency 2010-05-12 10:53:33
Link | Citer | R
 
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Sylph.Spency said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Cerberus.Saithorx said:
damn, too late? afk running from cops in the nudes for exercise.

It's about us mocking Duvessa about having a hand girlfriend, you're more than welcome to join in

Everyone knows any guy who frequents the internet is far too socially awkward to have a girlfriend IRL! Not to mention to there's no such thing as a girl on the internet!
Poupee is a girl :(

Sorry :( She's just cleverly disguised.
First Page 2 3 ... 6 7 8 ... 16 17 18