No one seems to have noticed that i posted this but it should end this.
haste is exponential in that it affects delay.
1% haste = -1% delay 500 delay (495)= -5
now at 10% haste you are at (500 delay (450)= -50
that is a straight decrease in delay. but... when you take it as Original Delay/New Delay you get a ratio...
1% = 1.0101-- extended forever
10%= 1.1111-- ~
50%= 2
100%=infinity.
now look at the gaps. are you saying a 40% increase of haste from 10-50% = 90% more swings is equivalent to going up 50% from 50% and doing infinity?
each point of haste you add increases your ratio exponentially and you do more swings
ALSO it affects how many times you could recast in the same time compared to the original recast time.... exponentially.
now if this isnt technically exponential.... then WHATEVER. This is the idea most people talk about when they say that
Haste Is NOT Exponential...
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Haste is NOT exponential...
Quote: all anyone cares about when adding haste to impact melee damage. The function deals entirely with melee damage per unit time. On the topic of recasts, you'll find a similar thing depending on which variable you look at; looking at recast time? Linear looking at utsusemi/shadows per unit time? Not gonna be... gonna be a similar trend to haste's impact on melee damage. Hourshisama... You're like the third person to have posted that. We've already discussed it. Point and case is that haste lowers delay, delay increases attack speed. The exponential factor here is delay's influence over the rate of attacks. Haste is purely linear with both spells and delay.
Leviathan.Duvessa said: Hourshisama... You're like the third person to have posted that. We've already discussed it. Point and case is that haste lowers delay, delay increases attack speed. The exponential factor here is delay's influence over the rate of attacks. Haste is purely linear with both spells and delay. Faiye: If you really wanted to be correct about something that mattered, you'd point out that only one input is increasing. As it is, you're just trolling and thus not worth the effort. btw just checkin but can't delay be considered your base attack speed?
Each point of haste added after the first does not have the same return as the one before it. its higher. THATS EXPONENTIAL.
Leviathan.Phenomena said: btw just checkin but can't delay be considered your base attack speed? No, because your attack speed is determined by delay/60. Delay in itself means nothing without that formula. The output of the formula is your rate of attacks in seconds. Example: 600 delay / 60 = 10 seconds per attack. Kujata.Houshisama said: Each point of haste added after the first does not have the same return as the one before it. its higher. THATS EXPONENTIAL.
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Leviathan.Duvessa said: Leviathan.Phenomena said: btw just checkin but can't delay be considered your base attack speed? No, because your attack speed is determined by delay/60. Delay in itself means nothing without that formula. The output of the formula is your rate of attacks in seconds. Example: 600 delay / 60 = 10 seconds per attack.
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Kujata.Houshisama said: Each point of haste added after the first does not have the same return as the one before it. its higher. THATS EXPONENTIAL. No, each point of haste has the exact same effect on delay and recast. DELAY on the other hand, the lower it is, the greater the impact on rate of attacks. Thus delay is exponential. It's an indirect relationship of haste between rate of attacks, the way we calculate attack speed.
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Kujata.Houshisama said: Each point of haste added after the first does not have the same return as the one before it. its higher. THATS EXPONENTIAL. good. Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Kujata.Houshisama said: Each point of haste added after the first does not have the same return as the one before it. its higher. THATS EXPONENTIAL. Kujata.Houshisama said: Each point of haste added after the first does not have the same return as the one before it. its higher. THATS EXPONENTIAL. Haste is like beer, the more you have the more effect IT has!
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Duvessa's trolling and insisting that we examine the effect with respect to delay alone, ie how much of it removes with respect to your original delay. It's an irrelevant comparison, but whatever. I'd never be such a conformist douche to use a word such as trolling or go out of my way to do so. I'm simply proving the rule of haste.
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Quote: Attack speed is merely a number WE fabricate to explain how many seconds each swing takes based off delay. Attack speed to SE means delay. Delay is the reciprocal of attack speed. Delay is a measure of the interval between attacks, so 60 delay = 1 second/attack. 120 delay = 2 seconds/attack. Attack speed is a measure of attacks per unit time, so 60 delay = 1 attack/second. 120 delay = 0.5 attacks/second. Leviathan.Duvessa said: Leviathan.Phenomena said: btw just checkin but can't delay be considered your base attack speed? No, because your attack speed is determined by delay/60. Delay in itself means nothing without that formula. The output of the formula is your rate of attacks in seconds. Example: 600 delay / 60 = 10 seconds per attack. and how is that not base attack speed? with that formula i mean. Leviathan.Duvessa said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Duvessa's trolling and insisting that we examine the effect with respect to delay alone, ie how much of it removes with respect to your original delay. It's an irrelevant comparison, but whatever. I'd never be such a conformist douche to use a word such as trolling or go out of my way to do so. I'm simply proving the rule of haste. Bahamut.Raenryong said: Quote: Attack speed is merely a number WE fabricate to explain how many seconds each swing takes based off delay. Attack speed to SE means delay. Delay is the reciprocal of attack speed. Delay is a measure of the interval between attacks, so 60 delay = 1 second/attack. 120 delay = 2 seconds/attack. Attack speed is a measure of attacks per unit time, so 60 delay = 1 attack/second. 120 delay = 0.5 attacks/second. kk ty Leviathan.Duvessa said: Kujata.Houshisama said: Each point of haste added after the first does not have the same return as the one before it. its higher. THATS EXPONENTIAL. No, each point of haste has the exact same effect on delay and recast. DELAY on the other hand, the lower it is, the greater the impact on rate of attacks. Thus delay is exponential. It's an indirect relationship of haste between rate of attacks, the way we calculate attack speed. those variables are affected by haste and dont even need to be discussed. those arent the outcomes that matter. its the RATIO that i was talking about that IS... in fact... directly altered by haste.... at an exponential rate So, say we were to call the delay function x ... what would that make the attack speed function?
1/x? Leviathan.Phenomena said: and how is that not base attack speed? with that formula i mean. Because delay is a solid, visible figure used to determine the rate at which we attack. The number itself is lowered linearly by haste. If you have 600 delay, every 1% of haste lowers delay by 6. 1% = 594 2% = 588 5% = 570 10% = 540 20% = 480 50% = 300 Every 1% of haste lowers delay by a linear amount. Delays relationship with the rate of attack however is the factor that gives us exponential results. The lower your delay, the larger the return you will get in your rate of attacks per reduction. Thus delay is exponential. You're choosing to measure in delay, why can't we choose to measure in attack speed? Both are clearly defined except attack speed is more useful and more relevant (and not linear).
Haste directly impacts both (attack speed is the reciprocal of delay so there's no way it couldn't impact it as well)...
sorry raen cleared it for me.
and again im not saying that you are wrong in your haste/delay scenario im just saying that hastes target is attack speed...thus i WILL say it has exponential returns for ATTACK SPEED. that is all. if you choose to go with its effects on delay then fine....but i will choose what its actually targeting. Bahamut.Raenryong said: Haste directly impacts both (attack speed is the reciprocal of delay so there's no way it couldn't impact it as well)... But haste is lowering delay by a percentage. Haste does not decide delays effect on rate of attack, it merely lowers the value of base delay. Delay itself is the one factor that gives us a higher or lower return based off its value. Haste has a linear effect on this value we know as delay, but delay is not a linear variable. It fluctuates as it changes, due to the transition into actual time measurements. Leviathan.Duvessa said: Bahamut.Raenryong said: Haste directly impacts both (attack speed is the reciprocal of delay so there's no way it couldn't impact it as well)... Blah blah blah this is ***nobody should care about
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Leviathan.Duvessa said: Bahamut.Raenryong said: Haste directly impacts both (attack speed is the reciprocal of delay so there's no way it couldn't impact it as well)... But haste is lowering delay by a percentage. Haste does not decide delays effect on rate of attack, it merely lowers the value of base delay. Delay itself is the one factor that gives us a higher or lower return based off its value. Haste has a linear effect on this value we know as delay, but delay is not a linear variable. It fluctuates as it changes, due to the transition into actual time measurements. Hint: in comparison to the information we gain from the relation of haste to attack speed, it doesn't. Somebody is a poor sport :P (Veg)
He's out of the argument now that his BG math doesn't allow him to make a valid rebuttal. I'm not denying that faster attack speed has an exponential effect on rate of attacks per minute. I'm denying that it's haste that has an exponential effect on doing so. It's delay itself. Haste lowers delay. Delay is the exponential factor however. Haste's effect on the amount of delay it removes is NOT exponential. Thus saying haste is exponential, is by all means, technically wrong. It is, and always will remove a linear amount of delay from the equation. Leviathan.Duvessa said: But haste is lowering delay by a percentage. Haste does not decide delays effect on rate of attack, it merely lowers the value of base delay. Delay itself is the one factor that gives us a higher or lower return based off its value. Haste has a linear effect on this value we know as delay, but delay is not a linear variable. It fluctuates as it changes, due to the transition into actual time measurements. a = bc. Can I conclude a relationship between a and c? Leviathan.Duvessa said: Somebody is a poor sport :P (Veg) He's out of the argument now that his BG math doesn't allow him to make a valid rebuttal. I'm not denying that faster attack speed has an exponential effect on rate of attacks per minute. I'm denying that it's haste that has an exponential effect on doing so. It's delay itself. Haste lowers delay. Delay is the exponential factor however. Haste's effect on the amount of delay it removes is NOT exponential. Thus saying haste is exponential, is by all means, technically wrong. It is, and always will remove a linear amount of delay from the equation.
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