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(Does) Occ. Absorbs Magic Damage (stack)?
By Felgarr 2024-03-27 21:44:30
Valefor.Prothescar said: »-I still don't know for sure if it's + or x lol. Could be either one within margin of error and I'd need to get more samples to know for sure, but... Barspells and Carol effects are pretty similar. Element specific, both nullify the damage (not absorb).
There's not many other items that can annul magic damage in game.
Ajax+1, and that's it? And you don't really use that in current-day scenarios.
Well there's Founder's Breastplate and Srivatsa, but they annul all damage (not specifically magic) and I wouldn't say they're particularly relevant either nowadays.
Shadow Ring, being a slightly different effect from the Carol/Barspell one, probably is a separate check? Altough still subject to the max 40% cap that you found out, and that's what really matters I guess.
Shame you can't reach the 40% cap with just carol and barspell.
Weeeeeeell... Technically you can, with Soulvoice.
You go from 27% rate to 54% 40%.
Which personally perfectly matches with my experience.
On a hunch, without ever parsing, I always had the feeling that the annul rate with SV wasn't double as much the basic one, and thanks to Prothescar's test now we know exactly why.
@Felgarr
Archon is not relevant for this test because its rate of damage annulation only happens when the incoming damage would deal more than a certain % (85%?) of your health.
It's SEVERE magic damage, not plain magic damage.
Yeah, I'm aware of that difference. I didn't know it was 85% of your health (or if it was some other value that would kill you, had Archon not been active). I mean, he did say this set was to prevent getting floored by vivisection, so I don't see why you wouldn't include SEVERE damage mitigation too.
[+]
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 Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 12:25:20
Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »You didn't ask but BG lists shadow ring as 13% Shadow ring is good. It's got a surprisingly high proc rate(13%.) Valefor.Prothescar said: »Shadow Ring is 12%, not 13%. Quetzalcoatl.Kainstryder said: »Also, Shadow Ring is 12%, according to the JP guide book and wiki.
Shadow Mantle proc rate is 1/16. Shadow Ring proc rate is 1/8.
It just feels right to me. To hell with your testing... You forum nerds overthink everything.
By Dodik 2024-05-02 12:59:37
1/8 so 12.5%.
They were both wrong or slightly not right.
Bahamut.Zedoma
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By Bahamut.Zedoma 2024-05-02 13:27:30
Slighly off topic, anyone have first hand experience with the Abyssea elemental sachets? Using a shadow sachet on my Aminon tanking set and i've noticed that when the proc has triggered it has always been 0 damage absorbed. Counter to how warders and empy gear behave.
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 15:14:06
1/8 so 12.5%.
They were both wrong or slightly not right.
It just fits the pattern so nicely from the mantle testing as well:
https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/88580-Shadow-Mantle-Proc-Rate
The simplest answer is usually the correct one imo.
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 16:35:33
Slighly off topic, anyone have first hand experience with the Abyssea elemental sachets? Using a shadow sachet on my Aminon tanking set and i've noticed that when the proc has triggered it has always been 0 damage absorbed. Counter to how warders and empy gear behave.
Maybe because you are already at 100% hp from not taking DMG?
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 16:54:00
>"you forum nerds overthink everything"
>proceeds to use a test from another forum as evidence
lmao, room temp IQ
My test shows clearly 12% (which already had over triple the samples of Kirchy's original one, i've since expanded the sample size to over 6k with the same results [736/6157, 11.95%]). Stay mad.
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 17:33:20
Valefor.Prothescar said: »>"you forum nerds overthink everything"
>proceeds to use a test from another forum as evidence
lmao, room temp IQ
My test shows clearly 12% (which already had over triple the samples of Kirchy's original one, i've since expanded the sample size to over 6k with the same results [736/6157, 11.95%]). Stay mad.
That was for the mantle not the ring...
If you can't even bother to read, who would rely on your testing?
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 17:35:26
*** you outright quoted figures specifically for the ring and then said that the testing for the mantle "fits the pattern" for the ring, the same post of which also claims your 1/8 figure lmao
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 17:41:16
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Carol II, Barspell, Shadow Ring
Spike Hits: 3609
0 Damage Spike Hits: 1515
% Nullified: 41.98%
Expected %: 49%, 56.65%, or 53.44% Valefor.Prothescar said: »-Nullification rate probably caps at or around 40%.
Clearly your margin of error is quite high....
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 17:42:27
Not sure why you're using completely unrelated numbers to try to strawman but it's not going to work. You also have no idea what a confidence interval is. End of the day, just because you choose to be ignorant doesn't mean everyone else has to be.
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 17:43:57
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Not sure why you're using completely unrelated numbers to try to strawman but it's not going to work. You also have no idea what a confidence interval is. End of the day, just because you choose to be ignorant doesn't mean everyone else has to be.
Neither do you if your faulty testing won't include the possibility that 1/8 fails within yours.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 17:45:11
Guy's using decades old testing (which he didn't even do) with unlisted methodology (unclear how they parsed out the 0s from the damaging hits, if by hand that leaves a significant room for error) as the basis for his claims and is talking about "faulty testing". My sides. Still doesn't know how basic statistics work
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 17:46:22
Stay mad.
By Taint 2024-05-02 18:34:07
Slighly off topic, anyone have first hand experience with the Abyssea elemental sachets? Using a shadow sachet on my Aminon tanking set and i've noticed that when the proc has triggered it has always been 0 damage absorbed. Counter to how warders and empy gear behave.
Your MDB set/JAs combined with Dark+10 resist probably floored the hit to 0. So even though you absorbed he would have hit you for 0 regardless.
My best guess.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 18:39:39
'Absorb damage' basically ignores all of your defenses. Only the bare essentials like pDIF still matter which wouldn't mean anything here
By Taint 2024-05-02 18:42:19
Valefor.Prothescar said: »'Absorb damage' basically ignores all of your defenses. Only the bare essentials like pDIF still matter which wouldn't mean anything here
Good point...I have no explanation then.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 18:43:28
Can't absorb for more than your missing HP amount so probably just that. Absorbing for 0 is a good thing anyway since it means he still didn't get TP for hitting you despite the absorb proc. Normally, if your absorb heals you for anything, he will still gain TP for the hit as normal.
Bahamut.Zedoma
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By Bahamut.Zedoma 2024-05-02 18:52:06
The reason I bring this up is because we know warders and empy gear absorption occurs at the forefront of damage calculations. Why we notice such large spikes of damage being absorbed. Of course, I only have anecdotal evidence but it would seem that the sachets absorb is taking place at the end of damage calculations.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 18:57:10
Would be unusual for them to deviate from all the other absorb pieces and have their own unique stat but not impossible I guess. You're sure you were missing HP at the time of absorb?
Bahamut.Zedoma
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By Bahamut.Zedoma 2024-05-02 19:02:05
Would be possible they are different as the term damage taken is not on them just damage.
That's a really good point on the not missing HP, rdm in my group keeps Regen2 refreshed on the whole party. I will ask them hold off on doing so for the next couple runs.
Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2024-05-03 08:42:32
So, I did some testing.
I can confirm that absorb recovery values are not affected by DT/MDT. So whether you have 0 MDT, or are Aegis capped, the recovery isn't going to change. Tested on Flame Sachet and Warder's charm+1 specifically. So both element specific and element agnostic absorbs work this way.
Also, SS and phalanx are not factors when absorbing. Can get non-0 absorb values with them up. Not that I think anyone was arguing otherwise, it's just something I rechecked during all this.
On the other hand... there was something weird going on.
I've long thought(And I believe this was also the general community consensus) that when an absorb procs, there's no resist check. I was wrong. There definitely is one.
I did 4 main tests, the first two being 0% MDT, and 50% MDT tests for Flame sachet. Then a Third Sachet test with vastly boosted meva(Also 50% MDT)
Looking at the spikes damage and absorb values across various tests, and especially how the values and distribution plummeted on the meva tests, it's clear that absorb procs can also resist, and yield reduced recovery values thereby. To begin with, if aborbs couldn't resist, then all absorbs should be at the max value. And that's not at all what I see in the data.
The fourth test was a repeat of the third MDT/Meva test, but using Warder's rather than Flame sachet. Basically to try and see if resisted absorbs was an 'old absorb gear" thing. But no, Warder's charm also does this.
TLDR:Player Absorb procs don't factor DT/MDT. But CAN resist, and restore less HP because of it.
Normally I'd try an present the data in some nice tables or something, but.. this data is a pain in the *** present, visually. I'll still post it, but it's gonna be pretty basic.
Test details/data.
Blaze Spikes absorb testing.
RDM/NIN. ML 31
INT 128+86
Avoided firesday and watersday during testing.
Test Mob: Locus Thousand Eyes. lvl 136
Test TP sets.
Maintained the same INT/MDB/MEVA between sets.
Flame Sachet or warder's was manually locked in over set.
Avoiding DT is actually kinda hard now.
Used fairly low end pieces to get higher spikes damage so I could actually see the difference in resist states. Premlimnary test was pretty much all 1's. Code sets.TP["A-Test_Con"]={--Absorb test TP. 0 MDT
ammo="Sroda Tathlum",
head="Volte Cap",
body="Volte Jupon",
hands={ name="Taeon Gloves", augments={'Mag. Evasion+4','Spell interruption rate down -10%','Phalanx +3',}},
legs={ name="Carmine Cuisses +1", augments={'Accuracy+20','Attack+12','"Dual Wield"+6',}},
feet={ name="Carmine Greaves +1", augments={'HP+80','MP+80','Phys. dmg. taken -4',}},
neck="Combatant's Torque",
waist={ name="Sailfi Belt +1", augments={'Path: A',}},
left_ear="Digni. Earring",
right_ear={ name="Leth. Earring +2", augments={'System: 1 ID: 1676 Val: 0','Accuracy+16','Mag. Acc.+16','"Dbl.Atk."+6','STR+7 DEX+7',}},
left_ring="Warden's Ring",
right_ring="Hetairoi Ring",
back={ name="Sucellos's Cape", augments={'DEX+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','Accuracy+10','"Dual Wield"+10','Phys. dmg. taken-10%',}},
}
sets.TP["A-Test_MDT"]={--Absorb test TP. 23 MDT ver. (Caps with shell.)
ammo={ name="Coiste Bodhar", augments={'Path: A',}},
head="Volte Cap",
body="Volte Jupon",
hands={ name="Taeon Gloves", augments={'Mag. Evasion+4','Spell interruption rate down -10%','Phalanx +3',}},
legs={ name="Carmine Cuisses +1", augments={'Accuracy+20','Attack+12','"Dual Wield"+6',}},
feet={ name="Carmine Greaves +1", augments={'HP+80','MP+80','Phys. dmg. taken -4',}},
neck="Combatant's Torque",
waist={ name="Sailfi Belt +1", augments={'Path: A',}},
left_ear="Etiolation Earring",
right_ear={ name="Leth. Earring +2", augments={'System: 1 ID: 1676 Val: 0','Accuracy+16','Mag. Acc.+16','"Dbl.Atk."+6','STR+7 DEX+7',}},
left_ring="Defending Ring",
right_ring={ name="Dark Ring", augments={'Magic dmg. taken -5%','Spell interruption rate down -3%','Phys. dmg. taken -5%',}},
back="Moonbeam Cape",
}Code
Flame Sachet control. 0% DT/MDT
819 spikes.
36 absorbs
#
2 3
5 2
10 5
20 14
21 6
Spikes #
0: 1
1: 6
2: 52
4: 3
5: 53
9: 15
10: 133
11: 27
19: 44
20: 193
21: 198
22: 94 Code Flame Sachet MDT(50%)
1194 spikes
34 absorbs
#
1 1
2 1
5 4
10 3
11 4
19 2
20 10
21 6
22 3
Spikes
0: 8
1: 62
2: 106
4: 29
5: 244
9: 69
10: 529
11: 147
Meva Tests added Barfire, Sabotuer Addle II, and BoG+EA Idris Vex Code Flame Sachet MDT MEVA
944 spikes
19 absorbs
#
1 3
2 12
5 1
11 1
21 2
Spikes
0: 71
1: 693
2: 48
4: 2
5: 48
9: 8
10: 59
11: 15 Code Warder's Charm+1 MDT(50%) MEVA
1089 Spikes
63 absorbs
#
1 4
2 48
4 1
10 3
20 3
21 4
Spikes
0: 25
1: 195
2: 16
4: 3
5: 13
9: 2
10: 16
11: 4
Anyone have one built or a list with all of the possible Occ abs mgk gear available? I'm looking for a hybrid between Acc/Haste/Absorb/PDT. Most I can think of is Warder's/Engulfer+1/Abyssea ammos. I find myself taking more damage on magical during avatars than I do with physical (obviously spamming utsu).
Just looking for some mix and match options, not a complete set. Also, any idea if there are those abyssea ammo pieces that can be combined into one later on?
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