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Bravura WAR
Bismarck.Altar
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1676
By Bismarck.Altar 2012-07-12 16:28:06
One of these days there will be a weapon discussion and the argument "You don't have this weapon so you don't really know how it is" won't come up.
Hopefully that will also be the day people stop assuming "X person has this weapon, he must know every single thing about it."
I'd unoffically argue to the contrary, to be honest. The mild reasoning ability required to make 2nd hand judgements with regard to things like this is typically correlated with some degree of pragmatism. Pragmatic players don't often have every single item a person can dream of having, and as such are substantially less likely to have any given item being discussed.
Either you misunderstood what I was getting at, or I have no idea what you're talking about. Likely a mixture of both, with a tilt towards the latter.
Fenrir.Sylow
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-07-12 16:35:08
To make a point about the defense down, it used to be pretty standard to have SAM use Ageha before they mutilated its proc rate; and, I was a huge advocate for it
I strongly doubt the proc rate is high enough to warrant using it, though - and even if it were 100% it would only be worth using once per however long it lasts (probably 2 minutes if Randgrith is any hint) and you still probably wouldn't make up for the damage you lost by not having access to Ukko's.
Fenrir.Sylow
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-07-12 16:40:30
One of these days there will be a weapon discussion and the argument "You don't have this weapon so you don't really know how it is" won't come up.
Hopefully that will also be the day people stop assuming "X person has this weapon, he must know every single thing about it."
These are really two sides of the same coin, with Taint triumphantly dual-wielding Apocalypse and Ragnarok on the obverse and Austar, Minjo and me facepalmed on the converse.
Lakshmi.Rearden
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-07-12 19:18:15
Any job with measures of survive-ability can tank Odin v2, I don't see how 2 Bravura WARs would tank it better than 2 Ukon WARs, or 2 Amano SAMs, or Spharai MNKs
etc
By Lye 2012-07-12 19:43:04
FULLLLLL BREAKKKKKKKK!!!!!!
Cerberus.Tikal
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-07-12 19:46:27
FULLLLLL BREAKKKKKKKK!!!!!! You win my [+]s for the day.
Fenrir.Minjo
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-07-12 20:45:10
Heh, wasn't aware that Armor Break was -25% DEF. That's really the nail in the coffin for the non-argument being made for Bravura.
[+]
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 370
By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-07-12 20:53:06
lol "The non-argument" lol Minjo you're so funny! /kneeslap
Fenrir.Minjo
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-07-12 20:58:16
Thanks sweetheart.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 370
By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-07-12 21:01:24
:D
Cerberus.Tikal
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-07-14 23:47:11
Shadow Breastplate; 2% TA, 5 acc vs. Phorcys Korazin on Upheaval with and without MS.
Bismarck.Altar
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1676
By Bismarck.Altar 2012-07-15 00:34:25
I think Phorcys should win all the time if Acc isn't an issue
If acc is an issue Breastplate might pull even/win
Cerberus.Tikal
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-07-15 00:43:09
Thanks. I thought so but couldn't figure how potent the TA was.
By Kaerin 2012-07-15 01:27:26
I think Phorcys should win all the time if Acc isn't an issue
If acc is an issue Breastplate might pull even/win
The WSD on Phorcys isn't carried over for all hits. It's first hit only. I honestly wouldn't expect Phorcys to win if you have good Augments on the Breastplate, since I know the HQ beats Phorcys.
Edit: Mighty strikes zerging use Kirins Osode with crit damage 3 augment.
Ragnarok.Harpunnik
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 867
By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2012-07-16 10:56:07
Back to Upheaval again. For someone who doesnt have Phorcys body or Valk Breastplate, is Mekira or Ares decent options for the WS?
Cerberus.Detzu
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 869
By Cerberus.Detzu 2012-07-16 11:11:16
Any job with measures of survive-ability can tank Odin v2, I don't see how 2 Bravura WARs would tank it better than 2 Ukon WARs, or 2 Amano SAMs, or Spharai MNKs
etc
On paper you're right. In practice, a good bravura war is better than two terrible Ukon wars or amano sams etc...
Cerberus.Taint
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2012-07-16 11:15:38
I think Phorcys should win all the time if Acc isn't an issue
If acc is an issue Breastplate might pull even/win
The WSD on Phorcys isn't carried over for all hits. It's first hit only. I honestly wouldn't expect Phorcys to win if you have good Augments on the Breastplate, since I know the HQ beats Phorcys.
Edit: Mighty strikes zerging use Kirins Osode with crit damage 3 augment.
Phorcys better then Heca+1 hands with +4crit dmg???
Edit: ran the numbers myself Heca+1 > Phorcys for MS Upheaval
By Kyler 2012-07-16 19:10:14
My MS Reso and MS Upheaval sets respectively
I think people really underestimate the impact crit dmg has..
so far my prov records are
8698 Reso (Ironically was with 90 Rag, haven't hit over 8300 since)
Using Valiant Lattitude and Persistance? the 15STR one
I don't think 9k+ is out of the question here.
Edit: 9337(7/24/2012 95 Rag)
7678 Upheaval
Using Valiant Deluges and Coercion (I hadn't upgraded lattitude yet and since have mainly used reso)
Derp edit:
Haidate Crit dmg +4 stp 4
Heca hands +3 crit dmg
Also I was still using pole grip not brave grip and atheling instead of cav, which would be obvious improvements I had overlooked. Still waiting to uncurse my cursed breastplate -1, like 0/agagilion on Pbody from odin...
Lakshmi.Rearden
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-07-16 19:23:20
Crit damage grip/back
By Kaerin 2012-07-16 23:49:20
Edit: ran the numbers myself Heca+1 > Phorcys for MS Upheaval
So post them. And next time contribute to the sets as theyre made!
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/27223/upheaval-thoughts/9/ It was somewhere around here.
Fenrir.Sylow
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-07-17 00:44:01
Edit: ran the numbers myself Heca+1 > Phorcys for MS Upheaval
So post them.
Lol.
Lakshmi.Orison
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8
By Lakshmi.Orison 2012-07-17 07:26:23
Any job with measures of survive-ability can tank Odin v2, I don't see how 2 Bravura WARs would tank it better than 2 Ukon WARs, or 2 Amano SAMs, or Spharai MNKs
etc
On paper you're right. In practice, a good bravura war is better than two terrible Ukon wars or amano sams etc...
Your argument is irrelevant. A good Ukon war is better than a good Bravura war. And if you're "good, why would you want to gimp yourself? I would think "good" implies optimal gear choices.
Lakshmi.Rearden
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-07-17 07:31:57
Man how did I miss that derping of brain tissue.
More like, on paper I'm right, in practice I'm right.
I think that makes me perfect.
Cerberus.Kvazz
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2012-07-17 07:41:24
What are the actual numbers on UF vs Upheaval anyways?
I can't see much difference on avarage ws dmg between the two the rare occations I do parse.
And in general bravura vs ukon (both 99, and how low can ukon go to perform equal)
Lakshmi.Rearden
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-07-17 08:16:37
The weaponskill damage isn't too different, depending on what you're fighting.
The more level correction comes into play, the bigger (or higher) Ukko's will be in comparison to Upheaval.
Bravura is also in weird situation in comparison to Ukon as well because while it has 40ACC on it, making it ideal for high level content, high level content=high level correction=advantage Ukko's. There are times when you can need to add 100ACC to an Ukon TP/WS set and it will still be outperforming Bravura.
Ukon also benefits from both of WAR's 5m AoE JA's (TP Bonus Warcry, Blood Rage)
Cerberus.Taint
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2012-07-17 08:30:09
Mob
Level Defense Evasion Agi Vit
110 560 485 120 120
Hasso 1
Berserk 1
Aggressor 1
Restraint 1
Mighty Strikes 1
Set 1
Ukonvasara (99)
brave
Ravager
Ravager +2
Apathy
Brutal
Moonshade AttTP
Osode
Phorcys
VIT RING
VIT RING
Cavaros
Windbuffet
Warrior +2
Ravager +2
Average Damage: 4142
Set 2
Ukonvasara (99)
brave
Ravager
Ravager +2
Apathy
Brutal
Moonshade AttTP
Osode
Hecatomb +1
VIT RING
VIT RING
Cavaros
Windbuffet
Warrior +2
Ravager +2
Average Damage 4170
Cerberus.Detzu
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 869
By Cerberus.Detzu 2012-07-17 11:55:40
Any job with measures of survive-ability can tank Odin v2, I don't see how 2 Bravura WARs would tank it better than 2 Ukon WARs, or 2 Amano SAMs, or Spharai MNKs
etc
On paper you're right. In practice, a good bravura war is better than two terrible Ukon wars or amano sams etc...
Your argument is irrelevant. A good Ukon war is better than a good Bravura war. And if you're "good, why would you want to gimp yourself? I would think "good" implies optimal gear choices.
Good implies optimal gears + gears swap + Knowing your job etc...
I didn't compare a good bravura vs a good ukon for obvious reasons.
By Kaerin 2012-07-19 02:27:39
No gloves
280*4.765=1334.2
*3=4002.6
*1.16=4643.016
Phorcys
288*4.805=1383.84
*3=4151.52
*1.16=4815.7632
Heca+1
280*4.765=1334.2
*3=4002.6
*1.2=4803.12
No Gloves
310*4.765=1477.15
*3=4431.45
*1.16=5140.482
Phorcys
318*4.805=1527.99
*3=4583.97
*1.16=5317.4052
Heca+1
310*4.765=1477.15
*3=4431.45
*1.2=5317.74
310 Base damage is where Heca+1 start to be better than Phorcys for this set. The set adds 56 VIT, and with a 99 Ukon your Weapon damage is 156, which gives a total of 203.6 base damage. Which means you need to make up 106.4 base damage in fSTR and base VIT. 25 is where fSTR caps on 99 Ukon, which means you would need 95 Base VIT to make up the rest.
What am I actually saying here? I'm saying if you have capped fSTR, 95+ Base VIT and a 99 Ukon, Heca hands+1 are 0.5 average damage better than Phorcys hands for this set. If you have a weapon thats a lower weapon rank than 99 Ukon, like a 95 Ukon, or if your fSTR is not for sure capped, Phorcys hands are better. Unless of course I screwed up this math somewhere, feel free to correct any errors I made.
PROTIP: Don't stay up for a really long time then try and do math to see if who is right about a random gear set, you'll have to do it 3 or 4 times.
EDIT: Phorcys win by more if you gain anything from the attack also, because that's not even factored in.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 82
By Odin.Valdor 2012-07-19 13:34:02
So I need Phorcys Head, Body and Heads for my Brovaura? Lol.
By Kaerin 2012-07-19 15:16:31
You need the legs too, because youll want to use those for Upheaval when youre not capped attack, and the shoes for your PDT set.
There isnt a whole lot of info on this in this forum and was wondering if i could start a discussion to gain a little direction as far as gearing and effective use goes .
Now I would think that with Torment being a 1-hit-enfeebling WS that Multi-hit WS would be preferred (KJ , RR , Upheaval) to take more advantage of the Enfeeble effect(while its up) as well as other WAR traits and JAs to deal Max DMG using Bravura . In this capacity i would figure King's Justice would prevail over RR and Upheaval for 2 reasons : KJ is a STR mod'd non Crit WS therefore more consistent DMG wise and with its STR mod much easier to make do evil DMG vs. Upheaval's VIT mod . I am not saying getting upheaval into the righteous is impossible , I am just sayin that gearing towards STR seems easier . "Seems" .
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