The Beast Within -- A Guide To Blue Mage

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
Langues: JP EN FR DE
users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Blue Mage » The Beast Within -- A Guide to Blue Mage
The Beast Within -- A Guide to Blue Mage
First Page 2 3 ... 281 282 283 ... 445 446 447
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-05-01 12:23:04
Link | Citer | R
 
Taupe is ideal with that augment pool, yes.

Taupe forces the stat+ augment; the other four augments have a 60% chance each to appear.

Augment distributions for all augment pools except special stats appear to be flat. Special stats reportedly get max stats just 3% of the time with a fern stone. Let's be generous and assume 10% for the non-fern max.

Off-path augments occur 10% of the time in stat and special pools. Beyond that I'd assume that each augment is equally likely. That means a 30% chance for DEX and... 15% chance for DA? Six available on-path augments? Doing this off the top of my head, so correct me if I'm getting that number wong.

So for each category, the odds of getting an augment that is no worse than what he already has:

damage: 0.6*(1-3/20)=0.51
accuracy: 0.6*(1-19/20)=0.03
attack: 0.6*(1-13/20)=0.21
DEX: 1*0.3*(1-13/15)=0.04
DA: 0.6*0.15*0.1=0.009

That DA augment in particular is a killer. Less than one in one hundred augments would get DA+3, and there's no guarantee it'll have everything else. Even with some leeway on other augments, your odds go downhill pretty quickly.

The DPS difference between his sword and one with D+20 with everything else the same is only ~1%. Given the odds, I would consider that avenue of improvement a very low priority.

tl;dr *** Oseem and *** Reisenjima

Boredwithyou said: »
is that for Almace offhand only? was figuring stp would be better for tizona so it doesn't mess with AM3
DA doesn't "mess" with AM3, it's just less valuable given your higher base multiattack rate. A high STP augment is pretty comparable to DA for Tizona, so it's really more that you have a slightly broader set of viable augments.
[+]
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2016-05-01 12:37:31
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
 Siren.Kyte
Offline
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3331
By Siren.Kyte 2016-05-01 12:41:32
Link | Citer | R
 
Taupe's definitely best- I don't really know why the guide implies otherwise. EDIT: Errr used to, I guess it was corrected recently.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-05-01 12:57:36
Link | Citer | R
 
Remember that melee damage splits are heavily skewed towards weaponskills nowadays. Splits are anywhere from 60:40 to 70:30 in favor of WS depending on gear, buffs, and target. Offhand damage affects half of those hits (actual fraction by DPS is smaller due to aftermath/base damage differences), along with just one hit of each WS. You'll average around 1.2~1.6 extra hits per WS, so with CDC that means the offhand hit is only worth ~15% of the WS as a whole. WSC and fSTR contribute about 2/3 of your total base damage on CDC, further marginalizing that base damage increase.

That's all before factoring in skillchain damage.

Mainhand base D is much more significant, yes.

edit: saying "less than 1%" might've unfairly described the difference. It's pretty close to 1%, probably slightly more if you're outside Escha zones.
 Siren.Siven
Offline
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: quinevis
Posts: 15
By Siren.Siven 2016-05-02 07:40:23
Link | Citer | R
 
What are people's thoughts on a path choice for Iris and possible companion swordS?
Offline
Posts: 68
By oldman 2016-05-02 08:14:38
Link | Citer | R
 
Siren.Siven said: »
What are people's thoughts on a path choice for Iris and possible companion swordS?


Acc path if you need it, reaugment it to path D (blu skill) for niche use once you have Tan+1 and Nibiru or Colada.
Offline
Posts: 174
By Takisan 2016-05-02 12:02:34
Link | Citer | R
 
Hey, kinda out of the blu but I would like to hear some ideas on enmity reduction when dding. More and more I have been seeing it might be an asset to try and avoid the mobs attention if at all possible. I know blus have tons of damage mitigation techniques but we just aren't invincible.

Changed my merit other category to decrease enmity and thinking about some gearswap sets I could make. I have normal acc superacc and thinking about an enmity high acc set.

Also thinking using my PDT and MDT offensive sets will not only decrease my dps (to avoid mob hate) but of course increase damage resistance.

Edit: Sub jobs too mitigate dmg/debuffs like /nin, /run, /dnc (help remove debuffs off stupid trusts that despite running away are still in aoe range of debuffs)

If only we had an enmity douse spell...

Just looking for some ideas on enmity mitigation and just better ways to deal with mob attention aside from just turn or run away.
 Fenrir.Montaeg
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Montaeg
Posts: 99
By Fenrir.Montaeg 2016-05-02 12:14:37
Link | Citer | R
 
My PLD friend and I just make liberal use of Cover. It's actually pretty awesome for Not Dying.
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2016-05-02 12:30:01
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
Offline
Posts: 174
By Takisan 2016-05-02 13:56:01
Link | Citer | R
 
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Hydro Shot, but it is worthless.

But, suck it up :P

Personally, I would want the tank to get better. Not the other way around. Enmity+ gear caps at 200. From my perspective it is always about having a better tank now that enmity is in its favor and not the DDs.
Unless the monster is dangerous then you shouldn't worry about gimping yourself to reduce the hate pull, IMO. Just keep barrier tusk up while you DD and cocoon when you pull hate. Can generally just fight through that and hit a PDT macro for a TP move if need be.

I don't have a real issue soloing the Reisen Tonberry with August and Amchuchu tanking and I have enmity +5 merited. I don't believe a good tank should struggle outside of hate reset.
We can hold hate off our fellow BLUs if we tank despite the lack of crusade and enmity gear in comparison to RUN and PLD. So I would only expect the same from those jobs.


Lmao holy S*** we actually DO! I forgot about that spell XD. Yea its just I was fighting Sarama pld (AG mythic/aegis), geo, whm, (dd changed from blu to AG rng to bst), and me. We had a cor that left and we replaced with trust. I saw your post spicy on discussions about that mob and a fully dedicated whm just wasn't what we had but not blame casting as I kept getting 1 shoted by a Fire II after chainspell but that was 2/5 of our attempts which all failed. But basically what I saw is if I could avoid tanking and being the highest dd then we would have won cause the pld could take with no problem magic damage and all but CDC spamming I was 70% of our dmg output. That's why I want to avoid mob attention.

I started off /run changed from lots of mab defense to single target as melee hits were doing 300-500 a hit then went to /nin but it was still a bust. Aside from this I find from Sombra dragon fights to soloing T1s in escha if I could some how hide under the tank on the hate list it would be really great. Just trying to think around the problem. Just finished reading your "Out of the BLU" and bg enmity for more ideas. I basically never use my offensive pdt/mdt sets so I am def going to explore what I can do with those sets (practicing ect).

There is at least one neck piece I saw that increase enmity decay. Not sure if it would be VE or CE. Beguiling Collar. I doubt we could do as well as say ranger with decoy shot but maybe there's something blus can do to better avoid hate so we can focus on killing?

Just wanna BLU it better is all.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-05-02 14:00:51
Link | Citer | R
 
Beguiling Collar boosts CE decay on hit, but it's a fairly small (5%?) increase. You're probably getting that much or more simply from the fact that you're not wearing a DT neck if that puts you below 50%.
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2905
By Ragnarok.Martel 2016-05-02 14:18:34
Link | Citer | R
 
Well... you could sub DRG, and use High jump when you've pulled too much hate. XD Although, High Jump only reduces CE by 30% when subbed.

Another alternative might be Sanguine blade spam. Magical ws have weird enmity. You only get credited for the base+wsc dmg. anything from MAB,dSTAT, weather,affinty, etc doesn't count towards enmity generation. So they generate far less enmity than would be expected from the damage dealt.

Of course, you're going to lose so much DPS from either of these options that you'll be generating far less enmity in any case. lol
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2016-05-02 14:31:52
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
 Ragnarok.Afania
Offline
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Afania
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2016-05-02 14:51:16
Link | Citer | R
 
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Takisan said: »
Hey, kinda out of the blu but I would like to hear some ideas on enmity reduction when dding. More and more I have been seeing it might be an asset to try and avoid the mobs attention if at all possible. I know blus have tons of damage mitigation techniques but we just aren't invincible.

Changed my merit other category to decrease enmity and thinking about some gearswap sets I could make. I have normal acc superacc and thinking about an enmity high acc set.

Also thinking using my PDT and MDT offensive sets will not only decrease my dps (to avoid mob hate) but of course increase damage resistance.

Edit: Sub jobs too mitigate dmg/debuffs like /nin, /run, /dnc (help remove debuffs off stupid trusts that despite running away are still in aoe range of debuffs)

If only we had an enmity douse spell...

Just looking for some ideas on enmity mitigation and just better ways to deal with mob attention aside from just turn or run away.

Hydro Shot, but it is worthless.

But, suck it up :P

Personally, I would want the tank to get better. Not the other way around. Enmity+ gear caps at 200. From my perspective it is always about having a better tank now that enmity is in its favor and not the DDs.
Unless the monster is dangerous then you shouldn't worry about gimping yourself to reduce the hate pull, IMO. Just keep barrier tusk up while you DD and cocoon when you pull hate. Can generally just fight through that and hit a PDT macro for a TP move if need be.

I don't have a real issue soloing the Reisen Tonberry with August and Amchuchu tanking and I have enmity +5 merited. I don't believe a good tank should struggle outside of hate reset.
We can hold hate off our fellow BLUs if we tank despite the lack of crusade and enmity gear in comparison to RUN and PLD. So I would only expect the same from those jobs.


If you pt outside of escha zones it's simply near impossible to hold hate off a good melee due to how enmity works outside of escha. You can try unm or htbc with August, it's not going to hold hate more than a few ws.

It's easier in escha, but if you are really, really good DD and fighting T1 you would still pull hate off August occasionally.
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2016-05-02 15:21:30
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
Offline
Posts: 154
By arakon 2016-05-02 20:36:16
Link | Citer | R
 
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Well... you could sub DRG, and use High jump when you've pulled too much hate. XD Although, High Jump only reduces CE by 30% when subbed.

Another alternative might be Sanguine blade spam. Magical ws have weird enmity. You only get credited for the base+wsc dmg. anything from MAB,dSTAT, weather,affinty, etc doesn't count towards enmity generation. So they generate far less enmity than would be expected from the damage dealt.

Of course, you're going to lose so much DPS from either of these options that you'll be generating far less enmity in any case. lol

Won't a /THF with Trick Attack CDC be more effective in transferring hate to the PLD?
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2016-05-02 22:33:02
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
 Ragnarok.Afania
Offline
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Afania
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2016-05-02 22:36:54
Link | Citer | R
 
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
In fact what exactly is the change inside Escha? The enmity reduction to DDing is universal, yes?


I don't think so, it's noticeably harder to hold hate in older content. It's also easier to hold hate as content lv scale up from what I've heard.
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2016-05-02 22:38:49
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-05-02 22:45:40
Link | Citer | R
 
Maybe, maybe not. Level correction is still a thing in most pre-Adoulin zones. If a tank has more trouble holding hate on a c135 UNM than a c135 NM in Escha/Reisenjima, that could imply a difference in enmity mechanics since the DDs should have lower damage output on the former.
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2016-05-02 23:05:52
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
 Ragnarok.Afania
Offline
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Afania
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2016-05-02 23:55:50
Link | Citer | R
 
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
In fact what exactly is the change inside Escha? The enmity reduction to DDing is universal, yes?


I don't think so, it's noticeably harder to hold hate in older content. It's also easier to hold hate as content lv scale up from what I've heard.

Lol, then hate works the same inside as it does out.


How can you be so sure? Tons of testimonials implied that new enmity formula only works in newer content. The best way to hold hate off good melees in older content is probably trying to do as much damage as possible, much like NIN tanking.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-05-02 23:58:04
Link | Citer | R
 
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Maybe, maybe not. Level correction is still a thing in most pre-Adoulin zones. If a tank has more trouble holding hate on a c135 UNM than a c135 NM in Escha/Reisenjima, that could imply a difference in enmity mechanics since the DDs should have lower damage output on the former.

Well even so. The biggest change was lowering the rate DDs accrue enmity through dealing damage. That is universal, yes?
I honestly have no clue. That was all done while I was gone, and there hasn't been much in the way of enmity testing since then.
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2016-05-03 00:14:07
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Citer | R
 
Post deleted by User.
 Cerberus.Jeffil
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Zelljrc
Posts: 90
By Cerberus.Jeffil 2016-05-03 07:26:23
Link | Citer | R
 
So just acquired some Thereoid Greaves this morning.

I went to plug them into the BLU DPS spreadsheet, and was very surprised to see the following.



Any reason there is such a huge difference between these and my Herculean Boots? They have +9 DEX, +3% TA, +24 acc, and +6 attack augments.

I thought Thereoid was going to be superior to everything except Adhemar Gamashes +1.

Perhaps not? Or is there an error on how the spreadsheet is calculating damage?

(I checked the TP gear and they are the same as well as all buffs and whatnot between both sets)
 Asura.Midgitis
Offline
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 47
By Asura.Midgitis 2016-05-03 07:38:58
Link | Citer | R
 
It's either an accuracy issue or calculation issue. Most likely calculation issue with the crit rate/damage and cdc. I don't have or use the spreadsheet but it's not hard to calculate Thereoid are or should be better than those herc boots unless you desperately need the acc.
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2905
By Ragnarok.Martel 2016-05-03 07:43:45
Link | Citer | R
 
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
In fact what exactly is the change inside Escha? The enmity reduction to DDing is universal, yes?


I don't think so, it's noticeably harder to hold hate in older content. It's also easier to hold hate as content lv scale up from what I've heard.

Lol, then hate works the same inside as it does out.


How can you be so sure? Tons of testimonials implied that new enmity formula only works in newer content. The best way to hold hate off good melees in older content is probably trying to do as much damage as possible, much like NIN tanking.
I tend to bookmark and label updates that have to do with enmity, as it's kinda an area of interest for me.

Here are the last several enmity adjustments from oldest to newest.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31310-March-27-2013-%28JST%29-Version-Update
Quote:
The amount of enmity accumulation based upon how much damage players deal to a target and the amount of HP it can recover will be reduced when facing targets over level 50.
Should the target be level 99 or higher, this type of enmity accumulation will be reduced by approximately thirty percent.
In addition, testing to reduce the amount of enmity accumulated from using the white magic spell Cure V is ongoing.
* The static type of enmity accumulation—not based on damage dealt and HP recovered—will remain the same.
* Additional adjustments regarding enmity are also scheduled to be implemented.

April 30 2013. This one was the spell enmity nerf. not really relevant here.

July 9th 2013. JA min CE nerf.

Feb 14th 2014.
Quote:
Enmity generated from dealing damage has been adjusted.
Enmity generated from dealing damage to enemies of level 100 or greater no longer accumulates as quickly.

The "Enmity+X" and "Enmity-X" statistics found on equipment have undergone the following adjustments.
Those receiving damage from a foe while wearing "Enmity-X" equipment will experience greater enmity reductions, while those wearing "Enmity+X" equipment will experience lesser enmity reductions.

Mar 25 2015.
Quote:
Enmity Adjustments

The enmity cap has been tripled.

The amount of enmity gained by dealing damage has been lowered.
* Enmity generated by healing remains the same.

Enmity will now decrease based on the gap between player/pet level/item level and monster level.
* Abilities that generate a fixed amount of enmity, such as healing magic and elemental magic, are exempt from this change.
There have been multiple instances of damage enmity reduction for higher level enemies. The high the level, the less enmity generated. Older content, tends to be lower level content.

It's possible I missed a note on content location/type vs enmity(if you saw one do tell), or that they ninja'd in an adjustment. But I doubt it.
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
In fact what exactly is the change inside Escha? The enmity reduction to DDing is universal, yes?


I don't think so, it's noticeably harder to hold hate in older content. It's also easier to hold hate as content lv scale up from what I've heard.
Older content is lower level content. this squares perfectly with the SE's reported enmity changes.

I dunno if I'll have time to do any enmity testing, but I'll see if I can squeeze in something to compare dmg enmity in normal zones vs escha. I'll need to find two mobs of the same level the same level...
[+]
Offline
Posts: 1731
By geigei 2016-05-03 07:46:20
Link | Citer | R
 
15dex/4cdmg shits on theroid acc or no acc issue. You ppl underestimate how strong dex is.
Offline
Posts: 156
By Vijara 2016-05-03 07:52:28
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Jeffil said: »
I went to plug them into the BLU DPS spreadsheet, and was very surprised to see the following.

Anyone have a link to the spreadsheet?
 Bahamut.Vinedrius
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Devrom
Posts: 665
By Bahamut.Vinedrius 2016-05-03 08:19:43
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Jeffil said: »
Any reason there is such a huge difference between these and my Herculean Boots? They have +9 DEX, +3% TA, +24 acc, and +6 attack augments.

I thought Thereoid was going to be superior to everything except Adhemar Gamashes +1.

Perhaps not? Or is there an error on how the spreadsheet is calculating damage?

(I checked the TP gear and they are the same as well as all buffs and whatnot between both sets)

There must be some difference between two setups that you are missing. There is no way the WS averages would be that far from one another. I could see herc's extra dex possibly evening out the crit rate from thereoid but yours doesn't eve have crit augment.
[+]
First Page 2 3 ... 281 282 283 ... 445 446 447