Samurai - Y/G/K Help

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Samurai - Y/G/K help
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 Fenrir.Bleublood
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By Fenrir.Bleublood 2009-12-05 15:35:18
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I have been playing Samurai for a little while and I noticed in merit parties that after doing a certain weapon skill a number of times it starts to get weaker and after i change the weapon skill im using, it gets boosted again.

My question is, are you supposed to alternate your weapon skills so they don't get weaker? Or is all this just a coincidence?
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-05 15:39:48
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Coincidence. Gekko is the strongest of the three btw, unless you specifically need para or blindness, gekko for highest average damage.
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 Seraph.Bulleta
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By Seraph.Bulleta 2009-12-05 15:54:31
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Fairy.Vegetto said:
Coincidence. Gekko is the strongest of the three btw, unless you specifically need para or blindness, gekko for highest average damage.

Agreed.
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 Valefor.Welfare
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By Valefor.Welfare 2009-12-05 15:54:38
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You know what bothers me about that reply? It's incredibly narrow-minded with no mention that "A GREAT DEAL OF SAMURAI'S DAMAGE OUTPUT IS BASED ON IT'S ABILITY TO SKILLCHAIN"
If you're not going to skillchain and you have the IQ of an Amoeba then by all means; spam Gekko in the middle of someone else's Meikyo Shisui.
Personally I like to think ahead, plan things out, and setup a barrage of non-stop skillchains with a team of BLM coordinating their nukes to burst those SCs silly.
Only a complete moron avoids utilizing part of a game simply because it requires too much thought.

That being said;
Say you're out on sam/dnc, soloing a nasty NM with of course a Soboro and you'd like to 2-Hour but feel you would be wasting it because of the low damage rating on Soboro - simply change your weapon.
There are so many things you can do even before you change your weapon too.
Given the abundance of Haste/Store TP coupled with Sekkanoki, you should be able to crank out at least 2 SCs prior to changing weapons and using your 2-Hour.
Plan out a string of SCs.
By doing so, you not only get the "slightly higher damage from Gekko" but you also get a relatively nice SC in between each WS.
Plan it out so that when you finally close with a level 3, be it Light or Darkness, you will be using the last of your TP from your 2-Hour.
Personally I like to crank out 1 single WS after I 2-Hour, then Meditate, [yes macro in Myochin Kabuto(+1) AND Saotome Kote - it's all about max TP gain], then continue. If you drag *** then you'll screw up your SC so as they say, "practice makes perfect".

Something else I would like to glance over since you mentioned meriting with GK - please level your Polearm.
Penta is gonna own any Tachi WS you use on a bird, really even going just that one step further in totally nullifying the noobness of "just spam Gekko"

We're in the age of "Minute Plus" meaning that people want to push a button and then eat.
Some time in your life, that microwave will break and you will have only yourself to rely on. Educate yourself. Discipline yourself. Be the solution to the problem.
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 Kujata.Argettio
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By Kujata.Argettio 2009-12-05 16:01:19
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Outside of 2hr and Sekkanoki self skillchaining isn't really possibe (although can be done in some situations), so then you want to use your strongest WS (Gekkko).

Veg wasn't implying that gekko is the only WS to use, just when you have no opertunity to SC (2hr, Sekkanoki or some one WS just before you), go for your strongest WS.

When I am on DRK and see a WAR bust a KJ, I will follow up with insurgancy to make light. But if no one has openned anything for me then I am gonna use guillotine as it is a stronger WS.

I agree with the rant against uneducated SAMs, but I really think you ar putting words in his mouth.
 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2009-12-05 16:06:53
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Fenrir.Bleublood said:
merit parties
Valefor.Welfare said:
Random ***that has nothing to do with the OP's Question
I'm sorry, who the hell Meikyo's in a merit party? Probably the same people that are trying to enfeeble, or bringing Blms to a colibri Party.
Not that I disagree with a lot of your post, but wtf. None of it belongs here. If you're going to make a long *** rant, create a new topic and see if anyone cares enough to respond. Stop going on a huge and random spiel trying to make the OP look like an idiot.


Back on topic, Not a Sam, but Argettio and Vegetto seem to have answered the OP nicely.
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 Sylph.Hitetsu
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By Sylph.Hitetsu 2009-12-05 16:09:48
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Bismarck.Altar said:
I'm sorry, who the hell Meikyo's in a merit party?

I was thinking the same thing.. I've 2hr'd in a merit party.. once, out of boredom..
 Kujata.Argettio
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By Kujata.Argettio 2009-12-05 16:12:38
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Possibly the bigger question that no one has asked....

Why are you using a GK in merit party? :P

But that's a can of worms I cba with
 Fenrir.Bleublood
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By Fenrir.Bleublood 2009-12-05 16:14:04
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Kujata.Argettio said:
Possibly the bigger question that no one has asked....

Why are you using a GK in merit party? :P

But that's a can of worms I cba with

Because i like to see a moon every 45 seconds :P
 Fenrir.Retin
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By Fenrir.Retin 2009-12-05 16:17:06
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I've been a samurai for well over 4 years, and I must say I really dislike other samurais who are "gekko only sams, aka ToAU sams". You are doing it right for damage output on ws, but it's alot of other factors you should consider when WSing on samurai. Note; this is imo, and only imo. First example: 50 more damage or paralyze from kasha on a skoffin? Personally, I'd kasha. No doubt. Soloing; Same as above, blind/para>silence(unless you are fighting mage feared mobs obv>.>) Skillchain>extra dam from gekko/same with opening for others if asked too. Wich is not too often in merits anyway. I also think it's a coincidence if you see a damage migration from performing the same ws for a long periode of time. I have never noticed any, but, however, I never spam gekko only.
 Fenrir.Bleublood
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By Fenrir.Bleublood 2009-12-05 16:24:03
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Fenrir.Retin said:
I've been a samurai for well over 4 years, and I must say I really dislike other samurais who are "gekko only sams, aka ToAU sams". You are doing it right for damage output on ws, but it's alot of other factors you should consider when WSing on samurai. Note; this is imo, and only imo. First example: 50 more damage or paralyze from kasha on a skoffin? Personally, I'd kasha. No doubt. Soloing; Same as above, blind/para>silence(unless you are fighting mage feared mobs obv>.>) Skillchain>extra dam from gekko/same with opening for others if asked too. Wich is not too often in merits anyway. I also think it's a coincidence if you see a damage migration from performing the same ws for a long periode of time. I have never noticed any, but, however, I never spam gekko only.

Yeah, I don't like the gekko only sam's too much either. I try not to be one of those, just every once in awhile i will zone out in a merit party and find myself using gekko 5 to 6 times in a row.

Thanks everyone for the input, I guess it really is a coincidence. I don't know why the 2 hour and SC thing came into play though lol
 Fenrir.Shindo
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By Fenrir.Shindo 2009-12-05 16:27:53
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Chill out, dude. Unless a post was deleted I didn't see anything about the OP asking about Meikyo.

Any change in damage you see is coincidence. Don't underestimate the enfeebling power of Kasha and Yukikaze, they can be used defensively to save your life.

Also on the subject of your 2-hour, know that if you link Skillchains together (Level 1 - Level 2 - Level 3) the SC damage cap increases drastically. If you use Gekko, then pop your 2hr, and use Y-G-K in sequence to make Light, it's not unheard of for Light to do over 2000 damage. A lot of SAMs I know aren't aware of this fact.
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 Ragnarok.Titox
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By Ragnarok.Titox 2009-12-05 17:03:28
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Fenrir.Shindo said:
Any change in damage you see is coincidence. Don't underestimate the enfeebling power of Kasha and Yukikaze, they can be used defensively to save your life.

If you use Gekko, then pop your 2hr, and use Y-G-K in sequence to make Light, it's not unheard of for Light to do over 2000 damage. A lot of SAMs I know aren't aware of this fact.

^ true lol

i mostly do with sekkanoki and meditate with 200TP already

Yuki > gekko > gekko > kasha > rana > gekko you will see an awesome darkness dmg....only have done it twice since there are few monster that can be try out completely beside NMs(or campaign) but is fun to watch darkness do 2.5k - 3k+ if unresisted total dmg would been if unresisted and depending WSdmg 10k - 16k dmg or so
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-05 17:23:03
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Fenrir.Retin said:
I've been a samurai for well over 4 years, and I must say I really dislike other samurais who are "gekko only sams, aka ToAU sams". You are doing it right for damage output on ws, but it's alot of other factors you should consider when WSing on samurai. Note; this is imo, and only imo. First example: 50 more damage or paralyze from kasha on a skoffin? Personally, I'd kasha. No doubt. Soloing; Same as above, blind/para>silence(unless you are fighting mage feared mobs obv>.>) Skillchain>extra dam from gekko/same with opening for others if asked too. Wich is not too often in merits anyway. I also think it's a coincidence if you see a damage migration from performing the same ws for a long periode of time. I have never noticed any, but, however, I never spam gekko only.
Rdm has a more potent para, and they should be the one doing it.
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 Valefor.Welfare
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By Valefor.Welfare 2009-12-05 17:47:33
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Since so many of you seem to have failed basic English, I will clarify that my comments about Meikyo and Merit PT, were seperated.


EDIT:
Secondly, I mentioned SAM's 2-Hour because it is an ability and should not be over-looked simply because it wasn't mentioned to begin with. if we stuck only to the matter of "does Tachi WS potency degrade over time?" Then we would never have bothered discussing anything else and would have put a cap on the flow of knowledge which brings us back to the same point as afor-mentioned of some SAM being incredbily stupid and not utilizing various aspects of the job simply because it requires an IQ great than that of "an Amoeba"

As far as Vegetto; ok, yeah, I guess I was a bit aggressive but why waste time waiting for this discussion to waste 5 pages on "Well maybe Gekko is this and maybe SCs are that" - we all know what the outcome is going to be. It should not take page after page of nonsense to get to the root of it all.
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 Remora.Thiefninja
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By Remora.Thiefninja 2009-12-05 17:49:22
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lol i was reading all this and couldn't understand why Welfare did his rant. anyways. just wanted to throw in my 2cents on this. when im in a merit pt and i use gk (rare) i really only spam gekko. and idc what ppl say against that but the reason i do it is because gekko is > then the other two. and srsly. while meriting who the *** needs para or blind to stay alive? the bird dies in 5 seconds anyways. and gekko can sc with alot more of the merit pt ws like AF spamming mnks. anyways just wanted to say dont be afraid to spam gekko in merit if you use gk. but you really should use polearm :P

P.S. ive gotten chain 300 in merit and i think 100 of those kills were gk and all i did was gekko. no real loss in dmg..that i saw..
 Unicorn.Ged
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By Unicorn.Ged 2009-12-05 17:50:53
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I would agree with you except for the fact that polearm is a waste for sam. I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell a weapon with a 240 skill can outdamage a weapon with a 276 skill. My gekko's(as a fully merrited taru) average 1.1k on birds where my penta thrusts average about 800. There is no contest. And if you are actually dumb enough to merit polearm on a sam just for xp parties which dont count for anything in the bigger spectrum of things, then you just wasted merits on a useless weapon unless you have drg. If you are a sam and have to do piercing then lv rng to 37 and sidewinder. However you have to have about 70+ r.acc for this to be even considered so again why wast all that time and money when you could just merit your GK and own everyones dmg cept rng and good drg in parties.
 Kujata.Argettio
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By Kujata.Argettio 2009-12-05 17:55:05
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Unicorn.Ged said:
I would agree with you except for the fact that polearm is a waste for sam. I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell a weapon with a 240 skill can outdamage a weapon with a 276 skill. My gekko's(as a fully merrited taru) average 1.1k on birds where my penta thrusts average about 800. There is no contest. And if you are actually dumb enough to merit polearm on a sam just for xp parties which dont count for anything in the bigger spectrum of things, then you just wasted merits on a useless weapon unless you have drg. If you are a sam and have to do piercing then lv rng to 37 and sidewinder. However you have to have about 70 r.acc for this to be even considered so again why wast all that time and money when you could just merit your GK and own everyones dmg cept rng and good drg in parties.

A decent Pole setup on birds will beat decent GKT setup

If your penta's are low, that's a gear issue and until you can get suitable gear to make pole > GKT then stick to GKT, but once you can build a decent pole build (which really isn't that hard) it is worth it and will do more damage

I could go into the details about why (5hit vs 6hit, attack doesn't benifit GKT ws in the same way as penta, piercing bonus etc), but it's late and I cba
 Ifrit.Darkanaseur
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2009-12-05 17:56:05
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Polearm SAMs can beat other relic users with a considerable margin
 Valefor.Welfare
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By Valefor.Welfare 2009-12-05 18:00:13
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Ged with all due respect; you're not taking all factors of the equation into consideration. Birds are weak to piercing. BRD & COR together in a merit PT can push attack through the roof. Penta means 5, thrust being "pierce"
5 high attack pierces into a mob weak to that particular form of damage, is going to far out-damage most things. Have you tried Polearm in merit yet? Have you seen someone merit with Polearm yet? I suggest at least trying it. You might like it ^^


As for my most coarse and abrasive nature I won't apologize.
For far too long our species has been flower children and hippies. It's time to toughen up and get back to being disciplined.
Anyone so offended they wanna cry or fight, is either emo, or every bit as abrasive.
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By Remora.Devilsadvocate 2009-12-05 18:07:35
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Unicorn.Ged said:
I would agree with you except for the fact that polearm is a waste for sam. I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell a weapon with a 240 skill can outdamage a weapon with a 276 skill. My gekko's(as a fully merrited taru) average 1.1k on birds where my penta thrusts average about 800. There is no contest. And if you are actually dumb enough to merit polearm on a sam just for xp parties which dont count for anything in the bigger spectrum of things, then you just wasted merits on a useless weapon unless you have drg. If you are a sam and have to do piercing then lv rng to 37 and sidewinder. However you have to have about 70 r.acc for this to be even considered so again why wast all that time and money when you could just merit your GK and own everyones dmg cept rng and good drg in parties.

In bird parties and some other things polearm is better than GK when you got brdX2 or brd/cor sometimes witout using /war depending on how you gear. So is a way for a polearm in the 240's(mine 250 i think) to out damage a GK at 297 doing from a range from 800-2k+. Jus all bout what buffs your getting. Buffs tend to help out more wit multi hits vs single
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-05 18:07:50
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Unicorn.Ged said:
I would agree with you except for the fact that polearm is a waste for sam. I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell a weapon with a 240 skill can outdamage a weapon with a 276 skill.
Here, let me show you something


http://i50.tinypic.com/3485z78.png

Mok is Kclub drk
I'm tomoe sam
Clave is amano sam

the rest are other DDs (half of which are hagun sams)

And this is Dyna lord, yet alone colibri where you get 25% extra dmg for free
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 Kujata.Argettio
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By Kujata.Argettio 2009-12-05 18:10:41
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Valefor.Welfare said:
As for my most coarse and abrasive nature I won't apologize.
For far too long our species has been flower children and hippies. It's time to toughen up and get back to being disciplined.
Anyone so offended they wanna cry or fight, is either emo, or every bit as abrasive.

You weren't being abrasive, you were just ranting about nothing to do with the OP.

That's not tough love to teach people, its just the ramblings that no one cares about.

No on ask for an apology, just called you out for talking about irrevlant rubbish.

You sir failed and internet tough guy.
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 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-12-05 18:20:21
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*** Vermillion city. lol Is that outcome due to Pole getting more out of the attack buffs than Gekko or Kasha would?
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-05 18:21:41
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Quote:
My gekko's(as a fully merrited taru) average 1.1k on birds where my penta thrusts average about 800.
Also, up your penta build if you're only averaging 800
http://i46.tinypic.com/1608s1v.png
http://i50.tinypic.com/2qlr6z5.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/b5pkxz.jpg

 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-05 18:22:16
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Seraph.Caiyuo said:
*** Vermillion city. lol Is that outcome due to Pole getting more out of the attack buffs than Gekko or Kasha would?
Pretty much. I also Tomoe in Ejar and frequently parse in the top 2
 Fenrir.Bleublood
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By Fenrir.Bleublood 2009-12-05 18:25:06
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Lmfao @ 1:49
 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-12-05 18:28:31
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haha, hadn't noticed that, Bleu.
Fairy.Vegetto said:
Seraph.Caiyuo said:
*** Vermillion city. lol Is that outcome due to Pole getting more out of the attack buffs than Gekko or Kasha would?
Pretty much. I also Tomoe in Ejar and frequently parse in the top 2
Nice, I was recently invited to start running with a friend, but have never done before. Any mob sets it doesn't work well with?
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-05 18:31:16
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Bones, and in some cases bosses. Other than that, should be fine. t2 and t3 require pizza(+1) to do it properly though.
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-05 18:31:47
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LGM helps w/ overwhelm, but gearmod is broken :(
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