The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*

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The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-07-23 08:31:11
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Node 373
[+]
 Shiva.Arislan
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By Shiva.Arislan 2019-07-23 09:25:38
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Tastefully done, bravo!
 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2019-07-23 09:30:05
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Good job on this guide!
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By hobo 2019-07-23 10:25:32
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fancy, nice to have an updated dancer guide.
 Bahamut.Minimuse
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By Bahamut.Minimuse 2019-07-23 10:37:18
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Well done, Katriina. DNC is one of my favorite jobs. Thank you for taking the time to put together a beautifully done, informative DNC guide.
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-07-23 13:51:30
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Thank you all, please do not hesitate to review the whole thing and point out if something is wrong so I can fix it.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-07-23 14:01:32
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I didn't contribute not even a single ***to DNC discussions lol! But thanks for putting my name in there regardless Katriina XD

Good job anyway, truly a beautiful and informative guide <3
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By kiania 2019-07-23 14:05:38
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Amazing guide... just beautiful.
Thank you!
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By Afania 2019-07-23 20:16:07
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Was spreadsheet pdif cap ever fixed? Why is dnc one remains the same as 2015 verion in last job guide and lower than other newer sheets like cor and blu? Dnc should have higher pdif cap no?
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-07-24 01:06:57
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I used the spreadsheet modified by Madranta. If you notice something please make the adjustments and let me know.

I simply add new gear and weapons when it comes to maintenance. I don't tinker with formulas.
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By Autocast 2019-07-24 01:37:28
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do the TP sets factor in haste samba in regards to capping delay, or is that without samba? (mainly asking about the non cap magic haste sets)
 Asura.Yso
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By Asura.Yso 2019-07-24 04:24:26
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Great guide! A small thing: under SAM subjob says something about Shikikoyo. This is not available from SAM sub.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-07-24 04:34:46
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Clearly she meant Sekkanoki, but good point finding out! I'm sure Katriina will fix asap.
 Asura.Outlawbruce
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2019-07-24 06:27:42
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PK weaponskill set is showing Dex route on Cape. Then the ambuscade Cape section is showing Str for PK.
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-07-24 07:51:04
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Thanks for all the wonderful comments, I’ll fix them right away!
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By malakef 2019-07-24 09:40:29
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I'm almost positive that DNC spreadsheet has the pDif cap showing old values of 2.25 and crit of 3.25. It probably does not account for the bonus on JSE neck either. Both of those would make for a rather large adjustment to the DPS numbers.

Edit* Hell it doesn't even appear to have the bonus added in for Rudra's damage to the Twashtar for WS Set 1.

The way Tauret is entered is double counting bonus from Feather Step, Rogues roll and dDex essentially giving it 100% crit rate at all times (even during WS)... Instead of showing a crit rate of 81.5 in the gear list it should only be about 17.5, the rest is already done through the spreadsheet.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2019-07-24 10:10:29
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Dancer actually can't use Malevolence, making Tauret the best offhand for Aeolian Edge if using Aeneas.
[+]
 Asura.Lunafreya
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By Asura.Lunafreya 2019-07-24 12:32:52
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Nicely done!
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By Afania 2019-07-24 19:09:18
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malakef said: »
I'm almost positive that DNC spreadsheet has the pDif cap showing old values of 2.25 and crit of 3.25. It probably does not account for the bonus on JSE neck either. Both of those would make for a rather large adjustment to the DPS numbers.

Edit* Hell it doesn't even appear to have the bonus added in for Rudra's damage to the Twashtar for WS Set 1.

The way Tauret is entered is double counting bonus from Feather Step, Rogues roll and dDex essentially giving it 100% crit rate at all times (even during WS)... Instead of showing a crit rate of 81.5 in the gear list it should only be about 17.5, the rest is already done through the spreadsheet.


Yes, Ive noticed the pdif was 2.25 a while ago. I manually changed my copy to 3.45 but I was more surprised that official copy still has this glitch.

About the tauret glitch, that explains why tauret ws avg posted on dnc forum was higher than real parse data I guess. I never notice tauret avg as high as people claim on forum in both parse and manual calculations.
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By Afania 2019-07-24 20:22:24
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Also some opinions about the the content, may as well share it for the sake of discussion.

Inc wall of text.

Quote:
If you're only going to go after a single Dagger, the best all-around performer is Terpsichore. It's either #1 or #2 for all of our WSs, and during TP Phase it comes first.

I dont agree with this. I get that terp is king of melee mythic for long time so people naturally feel that way, and career dnc can probably parse very high with terp too. But Im going to pick best all around performer thats either #1 or #2 for all of ws its most likely to be R15 Twashtar.

For zergs, Twashtar offhand cento is quite far ahead of other combo for grand pas zerging from what Ive seen.

For "I hold TP wait for SC opportunity" situations described in the guide, it also favors Twashtar because of tp overflow favoring rudra and longer tp phase favoring white dmg.

If warcry/crystal blessing is up(common in zerg sitations) it also favors rudra.

Rudra also has overall more versatile SC property than PK.

The top 2 rudra weapons are Aeneas and Twashtar. The best AE weapons are Aeneas, twashtar and tauret.

Twashtar is best offhand for nearly all dagger ws if you cant offhand cento.

If NM has amnesia, or takes 10x more white dmg like certain ambu, it also favors Twashtar.

Twashtar is usable by brd and thf too. 1 REMA usable by 3 jobs.

From reward ratio stand point Twashtar is clearly the best IMO. Its being used in more situations overall.

Quote:
Pure Zerg/High Buffs:

1-Twashtar/Centovente Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.
2-Tauret/Twashtar Spamming Evisceration with Building Flourish.
3-Terpsichore/Twashtar Spamming Pyrrhic Kleos with Building Flourish and Saber Dance up.


Im not convincee that spam building on recast is the ideal playstyle in high buff situations. Use JA to boost ws avg favors situations with longer ws cycle time but with shorter ws cycle time its value greatly diminish.

Some quick math to illustrate what I mean.

Assuming you have 2 equally geared dnc with ws cycle time of 5 sec, each does 25000 per ws. Dnc A spams ws at 1000 tp, dnc B uses building on recast and presto step whenever its up to keep up the FM. whenever dnc B ws they gained 20% ws dmg boost for 30000 dmg each ws.

After 60 sec dnc A will do 25000x12=300000 ws dmg total.

Dnc B JA cycle will be presto(+1 sec) step(+1 sec)building (+1 sec). By the time B does 1st ws 8 sec already passed. Next ws will take 5 sec because building isnt up but one after next will be 6 sec. Then repeat 1st JA cycle. Basically do BF every 2 ws and presto step every 2 BF.

So Ws cycle time should looks like this:

1st WS: Presto step building (8 sec, 3FM left)
2nd WS (5 sec, no JA used)
3rd WS: Building (6 sec, 0 FM left)
4th: 5 sec
5: 8 Sec 3 fm
6: 5 sec
7: 6 Sec 0 fm
8: 5 sec
9: 8 sec
10:5 sec

By the time dnc B DD for 61 sec, they only do 10 ws. 5 with building, 5 without. total ws dmg: 25000x5 + 30000x5 = 275000.

Basically, dnc B does less dmg in longer time than A who only spams.

If you extend ws cycle time for each dnc B will catch up, and eventually beat A if cycle time is really long.

Tl:dr: it seems to me that building best used if player is Slowed, haste dispelled, or closing SC. Certainly not in super buffed zergs when everyone spams ws every 5 sec.

Other small things:
1) I feel the guide could use a shark bite set. Its a useful frag ws for sc and doesnt require merit nor aeonic main hand.

2) I think the guide could have a section for multi step SC since its important part of job. See DRG guide on bg wiki.

Many people like to suggest evis > rudra > rudra but thats certainly not the strongest 3 step for weapons good at other ws such as tauret or terp. Exen > pk > evis is a much stronger 3 step for tauret for example.

3) I think the guide could also talk about other pt roles, such as main healing. Fan dance 5/5 lowers divine waltz 2 to 12 sec with recast- gears if I calculate correctly. Between single target waltz and divine 1 dnc should be able to comfortably replace a whm as a healer on things that doesnt spam aoe status ailment.

Anyways, just my 2 cents. Thanks OP. Opinions are welcomed.
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By hobo 2019-07-24 22:35:49
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I feel like instantly going assuming r15 twash or any rema is a bit stupid for the guide. There is a notable difference between the remas at r0 and r15. If you are just building one dagger you probably are not going to r15 it immediately, odds are you are invested into a different job and dancer would be a new fun.

Having a mention of whats best at r0 vs r15 would be nice, not everyone throws all their gil at astrals.


Also yes Multi step sc section would be nice.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2019-07-24 22:58:02
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Afania said:
1) I feel the guide could use a shark bite set. Its a useful frag ws for sc and doesnt require merit nor aeonic main hand.


Not just that, it's just a straight up better WS >_>; Exenterator is really only good for putting up AM.
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By Afania 2019-07-24 23:37:42
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Siren.Kyte said: »
Afania said:
1) I feel the guide could use a shark bite set. Its a useful frag ws for sc and doesnt require merit nor aeonic main hand.


Not just that, it's just a straight up better WS >_>; Exenterator is really only good for putting up AM.

Yeah in terms of pure dmg shark bite is better. But if you use it as 1st WS in multi step, sometimes dmg doesnt matter as much as TP return to connect next WS in solo situations (no capped haste and sam roll). And exen has better TP return than SB.

I used to open with shark bite but eventually switch to exen with 5/5 merit for more reliable result. But I had to sacrificed my resolution merit for it, some people may not want to do that.
 Asura.Cambion
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By Asura.Cambion 2019-07-25 00:09:20
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Recommended Enmity set updates:
ear1="Cryptic Earring", --4
ear2="Friomisi Earring", --2
 Asura.Cambion
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By Asura.Cambion 2019-07-25 00:27:25
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
I used the spreadsheet modified by Madranta. If you notice something please make the adjustments and let me know.

I know a few mentioned other issues with that DPS Sheet, but I'm pretty sure the Evisceration Formula is still *** up in that version as well. Simon and I went over this... oh god, 6 months ago ish? And I updated them in mine, but it's all on Google Docs rather than a local file on my PC.

Let me know if this link works for anyone if you can DL/Duplicate it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FJFwBx38ZUxkYdT3Pcvv-laqxmXciIo9Zl0atxhYhS0/edit?usp=sharing
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By Afania 2019-07-25 00:31:51
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hobo said: »
I feel like instantly going assuming r15 twash or any rema is a bit stupid for the guide. There is a notable difference between the remas at r0 and r15. If you are just building one dagger you probably are not going to r15 it immediately, odds are you are invested into a different job and dancer would be a new fun.

Having a mention of whats best at r0 vs r15 would be nice, not everyone throws all their gil at astrals.


Also yes Multi step sc section would be nice.

The reason why I mentioned r15 with twash isnt because I assume every player has r15. But because twash really stands out at r15 IMO.

At r0 there isnt gigantic difference between aeneas terp twash tauret or skinflayer with DM augment. Maybe Aeneas has slight advantage? Im getting similiar dps result on spreadsheet between r0 aeneas and something easy to get like tauret. Skinflayer with wsd dm augment can probably compete with aeneas using cento offhand too.

Playstyle, buffs, pt setup and how you coordinate SC matters a lot more between all r0 options and none rema IMO.

But if someone choose to invest more gil past r0 twash stands out the most between all options. Thats why I mentioned r15 with twash.
 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2019-07-25 07:58:46
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Lack of male dancer images aside (!), guide looks visually great. War subjob text needs tweaking re fencer (boosts tp bonus for single wield only) and think you mean sekkanoki instead of shikikoyo on sam sub.
 Bahamut.Minimuse
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By Bahamut.Minimuse 2019-07-25 08:35:17
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Afania said: »
hobo said: »
I feel like instantly going assuming r15 twash or any rema is a bit stupid for the guide. There is a notable difference between the remas at r0 and r15. If you are just building one dagger you probably are not going to r15 it immediately, odds are you are invested into a different job and dancer would be a new fun.

Having a mention of whats best at r0 vs r15 would be nice, not everyone throws all their gil at astrals.


Also yes Multi step sc section would be nice.

The reason why I mentioned r15 with twash isnt because I assume every player has r15. But because twash really stands out at r15 IMO.

At r0 there isnt gigantic difference between aeneas terp twash tauret or skinflayer with DM augment. Maybe Aeneas has slight advantage? Im getting similiar dps result on spreadsheet between r0 aeneas and something easy to get like tauret. Skinflayer with wsd dm augment can probably compete with aeneas using cento offhand too.

Playstyle, buffs, pt setup and how you coordinate SC matters a lot more between all r0 options and none rema IMO.

But if someone choose to invest more gil past r0 twash stands out the most between all options. Thats why I mentioned r15 with twash.

I concur with Afania.
Of all the daggers mentioned, Twashtar should be the goto dagger to R15 because of it's utility for THF, BARD, DNC, hands down. A THF with TwashtarR15/centovente can keep parse with the top 2hander heavy DD. There is no reason a BIS DNC with full party buffs can't do the same. A DNC might fall behind if she plays her job to it's full potential and is expected to provide a little support here and there much like COR. In order to be top in any job class, you need to invest in multiple gear, weapons and ambu capes.
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By malakef 2019-07-25 09:20:45
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Asura.Cambion said: »
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
I used the spreadsheet modified by Madranta. If you notice something please make the adjustments and let me know.

I know a few mentioned other issues with that DPS Sheet, but I'm pretty sure the Evisceration Formula is still *** up in that version as well. Simon and I went over this... oh god, 6 months ago ish? And I updated them in mine, but it's all on Google Docs rather than a local file on my PC.

Let me know if this link works for anyone if you can DL/Duplicate it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FJFwBx38ZUxkYdT3Pcvv-laqxmXciIo9Zl0atxhYhS0/edit?usp=sharing

This one looks better. It doesn’t have the evisceration bonus for Tauret and we still need a new formula to handle its crit applying during tp phase only. For other users also realize it’s been slightly personalized to his gear so you may need to tweak the augments.

There are also a lot of buffs toggled off in this version so don’t forget to toggle them on if looking for max DPS numbers.

Be warned, because the pDif has been updated the results for climactic are going to be much higher than prior sheets showed.

*Edit*
I also noticed that building flourish is not giving the WS Damage bonus from gifts.
 Bismarck.Nickeny
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2019-07-25 10:31:17
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hobo said: »
not everyone throws all their gil at astrals.

Sorry... but this statement erks me... everyone should be throwing gil at this... i leave most dps in the dust now with r15
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