Master Trial - Black And White

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Master Trial - Black and White
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-20 20:00:10
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Just successfully 6-boxed my clear and got my swords. Wanted to post what I learned over the (probably excessive) failed attempts along the way.

Setup:

Buffs

Fight:

Open to questions as well, but I think I covered pretty much everything I picked up. Glad I can move on to Unafraid of the Dark, it seems much easier. I do have a video from the perspective of all 6 characters, but I'm hesitant to post it because it shows the use of an auto-ranged plugin and gm flag as well as multiboxing(and it's 2GB...). May upload to mega at some point.

Obligatory fashion shot:


Edit: Added info from Papesse.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2016-10-20 20:06:07
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Don't think SE can or ever has used out-of-game evidence to support bans or anything. In fact I almost remember someone having evidence that they can't ban someone for something that a GM has no first-hand evidence for. But that was a long time ago, don't remember.
 
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By 2016-10-20 20:22:35
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By Verda 2016-10-20 20:49:25
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Great job man, only sixboxer I've ever heard to win a master trial and first western win on black and white I've heard of, thanks for all the info as well.

As for the other stuff I don't even know what GM flag does (or really want it explained), but I've seen it in lots of screenshots. Seems everyone has different opinions of that stuff so I just stay out of it. I do wish SE would add an auto ranged attack feature though to ffxi but they discussed it before and said it would be hard to.

Anyway, thanks for sharing this information and cg again, it looks like an extremely hard fight and I'm excited to try it again myself, almost finished anni trials now.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-10-20 21:33:19
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In regards to Frailty/Wilt, wasn't it demonstrated that Geo debuffs are severely gimped/don't really work on master trials?
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-20 21:38:34
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I don't know where that was demonstrated, but I can assure you my coronach damage plummets when the mob moves away from frailty so at least for this one it works. Given how easily ratio seems to cap, I don't think it's gimped at all.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2016-10-20 21:39:29
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Was only tested on Ultima/Omega afaik
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-10-20 21:47:40
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I'm fairly sure they don't work on B&W, at least the mage versions anyways. I can maybe try and do a malaise test.
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By Verda 2016-10-20 21:56:02
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The only one that it is speculated geo debuffs don't do much is ultima and omega, we used geo debuffs in SL fight extensively. It was shown that geo-malaise didn't do much to Omega, but it wasn't known if it just had super high MDB, or if it was maybe related to the bug they fixed with it's magic evasion somehow...
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-20 21:58:04
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Well, I can say with 100% certainty that frailty works. One more thing I forgot, repositioning after the hate dumps -really- sucks. I saved invincible for the first reposition, so I would at least not have to worry about dying while doing so.
 Carbuncle.Papesse
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2016-10-20 22:06:36
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Geo-debuffs work in Black and White but in the case of Alexander, the attack seems to be far from capped even with Bolster Fury/Frailty and Dia IV (and it doesn't have any PDT-%). They seems to be slightly nerfed in Unafraid of the Dark too and much more in Sealed Fate.

Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
These hate dumps are absolutely a mechanic, not just enmity issues. In many cases, the mob will run over and one shot a RNG(despite COR doing comparable damage without coronach's reduced enmity) and then sometimes even go idle. I don't know what triggers them aside from horde lullaby, but it absolutely does. Poison potions are advisable until grimgerde is dead so you can quickly provoke or flash to get back on list. Self target JAs, even invincible, will not help, indicating that PLD's hate is completely dumped.
From what I have understood, the reset hate is similar to a Cerberus's Howl animation or when SL (Fiat Lux BC) changes his weapon. Basically everyone get removed from the Valk's hate list and/or has his enmity set to the lowest value.

Alexander only assists/follows Odin. It has the same amount of HP than Odin (1m) but an extremely high physical defense. Odin must be claimed by the GEO in order for the geo-debuff to hit Alexander.
Geirrothr is a 7,500 (not 20k) needles type move, Odin starts to spam it (literaly) below 75%.
Zantetsuken Jin can be absorbed with Utsusemi, sadly Odin can use it more than once (he did it four times on our last run...)
Also, once alone Odin gets the additional effect: Chainsbound on his melee hits and can self Light/Radiance SC.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-20 22:15:07
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Geirrothr is absolutely not 7500, I've taken over 2300 in aegis/capped MDT with stoneskin up. It might be variable with TP, as the times I've seen extreme damage were all before I stopped shooting on my COR for odin.

Interesting that utsusemi blocks jin, but I don't think PLD can get away with nin sub on the earlier parts. RNGs can avoid it easily by not using decoy below 50%, the cone is no more than 30 degrees.

Edit: Oh, if it's physical 7500 would make sense. Some reason I was thinking it was magic. Added your info to OP to help anyone else trying.
 Carbuncle.Papesse
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2016-10-20 22:23:32
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Geirrothr is physical.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-20 22:47:50
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Parsed logs to add more detailed fomor information, in case anyone cares to update wiki.
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-10-21 00:15:14
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Is there a reason why you're using PLD/WAR other than for voke on hate reset? or can the PLD's sub be flexible?
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-21 01:08:54
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defender is quite helpful during the fomor portion, im not sure what sub you were thinking but i assume /blu would struggle during periods of heavy debuffs and any sub without defense boosts would have a higher death risk

nothing really cements it aa must have, though
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By Draylo 2016-10-21 01:12:47
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omigosh nerf RNG asap!!! Joking aside, nice information.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-10-21 13:50:11
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Did you try using bow on the Fomor?
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-10-21 13:51:52
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Draylo said: »
omigosh nerf RNG asap!!! Joking aside, nice information.

✓ Self cap haste (w/o any spells!)
✓ Avoid all damage
✓ Never pulls hate
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-21 13:58:30
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Yea, I originally attempted using yoichi(i had it afterglowed for SAM, guns weren't). If light SC are used effectively with namas, damage is not too far behind(though elemental sforzo made it look worse than it was on helmwige originally). Jishnu's obviously won damage, and surprisingly was not really a hate problem until you got one of the hate resets. However, at that point you end up losing both rngs and needing a reposition. I believe you could potentially win using only bow, but luck checks needed would be insane.

As far as the silly comment, maybe BLU's DPS should be adjusted to match RNGs!

Youtube wouldn't let me upload the video, said it was too long(57 min at 2400x1200). One other thing I wanted to mention, total damage needed is around 8M, while I forgot to parse my winning run, a 1% timeout had:
RNG1: 3,833,378
RNG2: 3,549,302
COR: 957,087
PLD: 4,140(I swap my weapons so rarely had tp for atonement, didn't engage usually to make for easier repositioning)
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-10-21 14:10:33
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Did you consider switching back to bow after you cleared Grimgerde?
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-10-21 14:11:46
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Also I'm not sure how much accuracy you ended up with total. Was it around 1400 or 1500?
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-21 14:11:59
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The hate resets still happen after Grimgerde, there just isn't anything I've noticed to anticipate them. In an average run, I'd say I saw 2 horde lullaby resets and 3-4 'phantom' resets. If it's like howl and one of them does a visible animation, it'd be pretty hard to pick out with all the mobs clustered together :/

Not saying bow isn't viable or potentially even preferred for parts of the fight, but if you can field a COR that can land shots, time ceases to be much of a problem. Accuracy needed was around 1500. 1330 from gear + 105 hq sushi + ~70-80 median crooked hunters + 19 boost-agi. Parse usually showed 93-95% by the time I got to odin, assuming variations are due to me leaving hunters off too long. Hard for me to quantify exactly how much was needed without hunters if you're considering adding accuracy to RNGs and using chaos, I needed it for my COR(as it was already using the max possible accuracy set with fomalhaut).
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-10-21 14:25:10
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Alright. When a reset occurs, what do you do to get hate back?
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-21 14:30:23
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RNGs immediately stop shooting, PLD uses provoke or flash once to get back on hate list then pops any available JAs(best to save as many good JAs as you can for this, because with entrust haste for flash recast you generally won't have much for normal hate issues). Often they'll move around the outside of the pillar, requiring you to reposition the whole cluster of mobs to get back into a favorable decoy position. That really costs time.

You can't really afford to save provoke or flash, so it's not unusual for a RNG to eat a WS before the PLD can get something off. Keeping accession stoneskin up and rngs at max HP, they won't usually die and if they do it's still not that big a deal. COR cycles rolls to fix buffs and they get arised and keep shooting weakened.
 
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 Carbuncle.Papesse
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2016-10-21 14:57:37
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There is no visible animation for the hate resets but the result is the same as when a Cerberus mob (like Old Shuck or Sarameya) does the howl animation.
Acc requirements are much lower for Alexander (only need around 1200~), RNGs can switch for atk food with Antacid.
Total HP seems to be closer to 6~6,2m for us and a JP parse (4m~ for Fomors, 1m for Alex and Odin).
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-21 15:11:15
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Reviewing video, those numbers were exact output of Deeps(a parser plugin I've independantly verified reads the packets correctly). I suspect the tendency to receive packets twice within instanced areas is skewing it vs a text-based parser though. As a side note, it's pretty irritating to frequently not see your spells complete or get the recast packet if you do this during a popular timezone.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-10-21 15:21:59
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Did you ever consider using ochain after Helmwige is dead?
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-10-21 15:25:03
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I thought about it, but sanguine blade is around 600 with aegis, so I assume it would be over 2000 without. I've seen high numbers out of Raiden Thrust and Shadow of Death as well. Mega Holy is also around 400 with aegis, so without you could be looking at 1600 + 800 light SC. Maybe viable on odin, I was under the impression Geirrothr was magic at the time I did it so I assumed no choice there. Not sure how much his WS did, since besides geirrothr and zantetsuken they were mostly laughable. Mighty strikes polearm WS can get up around 1500 with burt/aegis/defense down, but at least if they close a SC the SC will do trivial damage.
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