Fencer Vs. Two-hander.

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Fencer vs. Two-hander.
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 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-29 15:16:35
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Ran a parse today on a two cirdas reives. In one I used a g.axe as /sam. In a second I used an axe and shield /dnc to compare with fencer and since the one hand updates (Not sure /dnc is optimum for sword and board). I parsed slightly higher with one hander than two hander. No merits in axes and full merits in G.axe. Using eminent for both so I could get as close as I could for comparison.

I'm not claiming anything at all, but now Im curious. Im trying to spreadsheet it but the WAR sheet wont let me select any shields. Can anyone link a spreadsheet that shields can be selected and include the fencer trait? Ty.

Can I just change the crit rate mod to 9% to account for fencer for the "Target"?
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2015-01-29 16:01:23
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Sangarius +1 with Savage Blade is probably the best bet, really.

I used the dumbshit stoneskin sword off of Roc while soloing JPs and was getting 7-10k Savage Blades.


IIRC Motenten already accounts for Fencer.
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 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-29 16:20:12
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Ok, cool thanks Byrth! Ill check out some swords. Right now greatswords are beating everything out by a good bit. Don't have Rag but my Tunglmyrkvi is a good ways from Minos. Which is fine, I like Greatswords better.
 Lakshmi.Eyrhika
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By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2015-01-29 16:23:29
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I been duoing some VW lately and Mistral Axe has been rocking out, wondering how well that will fare.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2015-01-29 16:23:30
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I have Ragnarok and Ukon. As far as I can tell, my stupid shitty Stoneskin sword is equal to or better than both against trash. Against real content I sure hope Ukon pulls ahead, but considering that I'm one-shotting monsters with the first hit of Savage Blade and still doing 7-10k damage, I doubt it.
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 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-30 09:19:38
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Yeah, I played with the spreadsheet for while yesterday. The difference between my great axe and an axe was negligible. The spreadsheet hasnt been updated since the last one hand update, so looks like parse results were probably close to being right. One hander or greatsword it is!

Dear SE - ya know somethings wrong when a jobs lowest dps is with its highest rated weapon. Lol.

This was with no outside buffs. Results could change with them. I stopped messing with it when my PLD friends dps past mine, using relatively the same gear.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2015-01-30 09:25:03
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Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I have Ragnarok and Ukon. As far as I can tell, my stupid shitty Stoneskin sword is equal to or better than both against trash. Against real content I sure hope Ukon pulls ahead, but considering that I'm one-shotting monsters with the first hit of Savage Blade and still doing 7-10k damage, I doubt it.

When your being buffed 2H should easily win due to +10% haste from Hasso stacking with gear and magic haste. Ukon's gonna be behind Rag Reso spam once your buffed. Hopefully that changes after does a 2H update.
 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-30 09:28:36
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I have Ragnarok and Ukon. As far as I can tell, my stupid shitty Stoneskin sword is equal to or better than both against trash. Against real content I sure hope Ukon pulls ahead, but considering that I'm one-shotting monsters with the first hit of Savage Blade and still doing 7-10k damage, I doubt it.

When your being buffed 2H should easily win due to +10% haste from Hasso stacking with gear and magic haste. Ukon's gonna be behind Rag Reso spam once your buffed. Hopefully that changes after does a 2H update.

Yeah, I edited above. I was using only self buffs. Is that update for all two handers? For some reason I thought I read somewhere it was scythe only. Could be losing my mind though.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2015-01-30 09:51:50
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Not sure, just something one of the community folks mentioned so consider it a rumor.

Looking at the various 1H WS's, Savage Blade wins pretty easily.

Fencer + Moonshade is +750 TP.

Savage would be 9.687 fTP and 50% STR / 50% MND mod

Vorpal would be 6.3 fTP, 60% STR but +15% (assuming it's like rampage) crit and another +9% from fencer. Can get 54% crit rate, but savage still wins.

Mistral is 8.875 fTP and 50% STR
Rampage is 6.0 fTP and the same 54% max crit.

In comparison,
Resolution is 5.55 fTP, 85% STR, -15% Attack
Upheaval is 4.62 fTP, 80% VIT
Ukko's is 3.0 fTP, 80% STR, 50% max crit

Savagery (+700 TP Bonus) would do very evil things to Savage, bumps it up to 12.825 http://fTP. Resolution goes to 8.3 ~fTP with Savagery up. It's one of our best abilities as it not only boosts our own damage but also everyone else in the party.
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 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2015-01-30 09:54:39
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Yeah, Savage wins handily on everything I have dealt with. Realistically it does not matter what weapon is best for my WAR at the moment, because even Rag is going to get ***on by my Dancer.
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 Cerberus.Midgitis
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By Cerberus.Midgitis 2015-01-30 09:55:28
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I've tested both multiple times and WS average damage is a no brainer that 1h wins almost everytime

The problem comes in on TP gain and number of WS done over a fight.

Of course one 8k ws is better than one 5k ws a 2h would do, but that 2h could do almost 3 ws to every one that the 1h/shield build does.

When you look at the damage from melee attacks as well it is still behind 2h.

Now if you're looking at DW compared to 1h/shield it is almost the same as comparing 1h/shield with 2h as the amount of attacks you're getting and ws frequency goes way up. Even though individual weaponskills go down a bit.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2015-01-30 10:06:14
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Cerberus.Midgitis said: »
I've tested both multiple times and WS average damage is a no brainer that 1h wins almost everytime

The problem comes in on TP gain and number of WS done over a fight.

Of course one 8k ws is better than one 5k ws a 2h would do, but that 2h could do almost 3 ws to every one that the 1h/shield build does.

When you look at the damage from melee attacks as well it is still behind 2h.

Now if you're looking at DW compared to 1h/shield it is almost the same as comparing 1h/shield with 2h as the amount of attacks you're getting and ws frequency goes way up. Even though individual weaponskills go down a bit.

Neither 2H nor DW have a 300% WS frequency over Sword and Board. 2H would be 20~30% depending on x-hit and how much external haste boosts hasso up, DW would be 5~10% at best. DW has the issue that it disables fencer which lowers savage's insane TP scaling. This really is about how stupid the scaling is on Savage vs how badly the other Ws's do in comparison.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2015-01-30 10:08:29
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Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
Yeah, Savage wins handily on everything I have dealt with. Realistically it does not matter what weapon is best for my WAR at the moment, because even Rag is going to get ***on by my Dancer.

Yes Pyrrhic Kleos is stupidly powerful, especially if there is a mythic involved. 9.75 fTP with 40% STR / 40% DEX and any DA/TA is another +1.95 http://fTP. Mythic adds a 30% flat bonus which does dumb things ontop of DNC's 10% JA haste and stupid amounts of multi-attack. It's like a f*cking blender.
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By Nazrious 2015-01-30 10:09:28
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Cerberus.Midgitis said: »
I've tested both multiple times and WS average damage is a no brainer that 1h wins almost everytime

The problem comes in on TP gain and number of WS done over a fight.

Of course one 8k ws is better than one 5k ws a 2h would do, but that 2h could do almost 3 ws to every one that the 1h/shield build does.

When you look at the damage from melee attacks as well it is still behind 2h.

Now if you're looking at DW compared to 1h/shield it is almost the same as comparing 1h/shield with 2h as the amount of attacks you're getting and ws frequency goes way up. Even though individual weaponskills go down a bit.

The game needs a lot of stp on shields for 1 hand x hit builds.
 Bahamut.Scizor
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By Bahamut.Scizor 2015-01-30 10:10:29
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Verda said: »
Also Byrth, I'm not sure on your guys' policy on BG-wiki is it closed membership? I tried to make an account to add the new bloodpacts to the wiki but the register page is admin only.
Didnt they change it recently that you need to register for a forum account to get access to the wiki side of things?
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2015-01-30 10:26:04
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Nazrious said: »
Cerberus.Midgitis said: »
I've tested both multiple times and WS average damage is a no brainer that 1h wins almost everytime

The problem comes in on TP gain and number of WS done over a fight.

Of course one 8k ws is better than one 5k ws a 2h would do, but that 2h could do almost 3 ws to every one that the 1h/shield build does.

When you look at the damage from melee attacks as well it is still behind 2h.

Now if you're looking at DW compared to 1h/shield it is almost the same as comparing 1h/shield with 2h as the amount of attacks you're getting and ws frequency goes way up. Even though individual weaponskills go down a bit.

The game needs a lot of stp on shields for 1 hand x hit builds.

Honestly ... it's looking like /SAM might be a good sub just for the +15 Store TP. Not much else gives anything worth a damn for WAR, maybe /DNC for Haste Samba's 5%.
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By Asura.Leonlionheart 2015-01-30 10:47:59
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This makes me so sad
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By FaeQueenCory 2015-01-30 11:32:33
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Verda said: »
Can TP Bonus increase damage if you're at 3000 TP? Also is Crystal Blessing single or multi target? :|
TP Bonus does nothing at 3000. 3000 is an "end point" in the fTP function, so you can't exceed that value... cause there is no value past that point. (At least that's how it's always worked... They might have changed it, but I haven't seen or heard anything... and given the first WS update, I doubt that it would have changed.)

And Crystal Blessing is the same as all non-Carbuncle BPwards: hits everyone in range.
iirc, it's also a +250TP bonus... But I don't quite remember if it was that or 500... But I'm pretty sure the discussion from a month ago was +250, assuming 500 with Moonshade.
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By Nazrious 2015-01-30 14:18:28
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Nazrious said: »
Cerberus.Midgitis said: »
I've tested both multiple times and WS average damage is a no brainer that 1h wins almost everytime

The problem comes in on TP gain and number of WS done over a fight.

Of course one 8k ws is better than one 5k ws a 2h would do, but that 2h could do almost 3 ws to every one that the 1h/shield build does.

When you look at the damage from melee attacks as well it is still behind 2h.

Now if you're looking at DW compared to 1h/shield it is almost the same as comparing 1h/shield with 2h as the amount of attacks you're getting and ws frequency goes way up. Even though individual weaponskills go down a bit.

The game needs a lot of stp on shields for 1 hand x hit builds.

Honestly ... it's looking like /SAM might be a good sub just for the +15 Store TP. Not much else gives anything worth a damn for WAR, maybe /DNC for Haste Samba's 5%.

Drk.
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By Asura.Leonlionheart 2015-01-30 14:28:08
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DRG would potentially offer more than DRK, unless you're attack starved. DRG offers 2 jumps one with enmity mitigation and accuracy bonus 1. DNC is probably the more useful option with accuracy bonus 1, skillchain bonus, and haste samba.
 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-30 18:24:28
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Just from a dps perspective, /sam is giving me the highest numbers on spreadsheet. Granted, there may be other benefits to using different subs, such as healing on /dnc, etc... Also I am using my current gear, I guess it could vary depending on your setup.

I don't have the option to spreadsheet a sword, but it does seem like I am killing faster with a sword than an axe. The parse results are consistent with that as well.
 Bahamut.Malothar
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By Bahamut.Malothar 2015-01-30 18:56:36
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Totally blame this on that HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE 50 page official forums derail that started with "I'd be annoyed if a War equipped a shield" that was posted before the WS buff. ._.;
 Asura.Fiv
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By Asura.Fiv 2015-01-30 19:34:54
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Right after the update i toyed with axe and sword, fencer and dual wield WAR in sih gates farming respite cloaks. The fencer bonus as huge as it is, wasn't as impressive for savage blade iirc, dual wielding was only slightly less weaponskill average but obviously faster TP gain. The concept of TP Bonus +1500 is amazing with fencer trait, job point, and warcry, but the poor tp gain and the terrible weaponskill properties for almost all sword and axe weaponskills ruins my fun.

Cloudsplitters fun with a GEO though!
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2015-01-30 19:59:49
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Nazrious said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Nazrious said: »
Cerberus.Midgitis said: »
I've tested both multiple times and WS average damage is a no brainer that 1h wins almost everytime

The problem comes in on TP gain and number of WS done over a fight.

Of course one 8k ws is better than one 5k ws a 2h would do, but that 2h could do almost 3 ws to every one that the 1h/shield build does.

When you look at the damage from melee attacks as well it is still behind 2h.

Now if you're looking at DW compared to 1h/shield it is almost the same as comparing 1h/shield with 2h as the amount of attacks you're getting and ws frequency goes way up. Even though individual weaponskills go down a bit.

The game needs a lot of stp on shields for 1 hand x hit builds.

Honestly ... it's looking like /SAM might be a good sub just for the +15 Store TP. Not much else gives anything worth a damn for WAR, maybe /DNC for Haste Samba's 5%.

Drk.

Doesn't really give WAR anything. WAR already had attack bonus, and the extra 15% attack from LR won't meaning anything since we're assuming solo / trash type stuff. If your actually getting party buffs and support then /SAM 2H wins cause that last 10% haste is so big a boost.
 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-01-30 21:58:17
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Im curious. What shield are you guys using? Im working with just the Beautific. Is there something better, or at least better looking?
 Asura.Fiv
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By Asura.Fiv 2015-01-30 22:11:16
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I usually toy with beautific because of the block rate and WAR has shield mastery, which helps with TP gain to some extent, otherwise for DD stats i would probably use Kaidate or Thorfinn +1, but neither is so great that i think it matters so i stick to beautific.
 Lakshmi.Eyrhika
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By Lakshmi.Eyrhika 2015-01-30 23:09:47
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Bring back WAR/MNK!
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