Yoich SAM + High-level Content

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Yoich SAM + high-level content
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By Zoltar 2014-05-23 11:43:59
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Hey all, nearing completion on my Yoich and wanted some advice from those already at 119 Yoich.

When you're facing high-level content, ie: Delve v2, newer BC's, how are you doing accuracy-wise? Are you finding yourselves needing a load of racc gears? Are your ranged ws's landing fairly often?

I know rng > sam in the ranged department, but for those that sometimes tp with bow please share your experiences. Thanks!
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-05-23 12:21:44
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Will be a bit biased based on how my LS's setups in these zones, but here:

Marjami:
Tucan Sam: Yoichi is great.
Hawakai: Works great but you'll need to stack r.acc.
Bats: Don't use, attack down is too severe.
Penquin: Shoha is better because you'll need to hold hate.
Harpy: Works great. (RNG mode)
Boss: Works great. (RNG mode)

Yorcia:
Eye: Shoha/Fudo better
Pitcherplant: Shoha better
Water Tree: For hate sake, use Shoha/Fudo but Namas works well.
Chloris: Shoha only.
Morta: Works great as melee or RNG mode.
Tree: Shoha only

Kamir:
Pig: Use Namas on correct phases. Shoha better for neutral.
Gnole: Namas should work, but I use Shoha so I can get hate. I use Yaegesumi on this one during Asuran Claw spam.
Coeural: Shoha/Fudo/Namas all work
Ram: You'll need to use both depending on mode.
Mirka: Namas works great.
Lion: Namas works great (RNG mode)

----
High Tier BC's: Namas with Sushi does hit on most of the BC's on D but sometimes on some VD battles, you'll need more than that. Generally, the damage won't exceed G.kat damage because these battles are too dangerous to utilize Berserk. Depending on the setups, I do find myself using Namas with berserk at the start of battles when hate is defined on someone else. Once I get hate once, I always take berserk off for the rest of the fight and depend mainly on G.katana WS.
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 Lakshmi.Kwontess
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By Lakshmi.Kwontess 2014-05-23 12:37:14
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I agree with Keityan. Only slight change I would say is that Namas works well for making light on the Water Tree, the added light damage puts it ahead of shoha from my experience (It is not uncommon to get 8k+ lights). However, it depends how much ratt you are getting (cor + 4 song brd versus 3 song bard with no cor is a huge difference). It might seem silly, but the light damage from Namas does add up on quite a few mobs, and Namas chains with just about everything anyone else will be using.

Namas Arrow has a built in +100 racc bonus, which means it is easier to land weaponskills than it is to land /ra. Including gorget/belt and the accuracy bonus (not counting AM) I'm sitting at about 958 racc (838 in /checkparam <me>). If I'm doing multiple runs I tend to use riverfin, if I'm doing 1 run I just use sushi.

Besides reforced AF/Relic, Phorcys and gorget/belt are the main pieces to get. The 40% damage boost to Namas Arrow is applied after gorget/belt. This makes the multiplier 4.13 with gorget/belt and 3.85 without (over 7% boost to damage).

I pretty much never /ra for TP phase.
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By Zoltar 2014-05-23 12:50:05
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Wow, great responses here, thanks a ton. That breakdown is crazy good info!

Also, I didn't realize Phorcys body was still king for Namas Arrow. Glad I still have it lol
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By Cerberus.Leauce 2014-05-23 13:27:27
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Curious, on the mobs you listed above where you can use Namas; can Apex Arrow with Hangaku-no-Yumi beat out shoha in those situations?
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-05-23 13:47:29
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I have had trouble reaching acc cap with Apex Arrow in many situations but I haven't looked deeply on which mobs and by how much. Stacked with enough r.acc, I think it'll do fine. However, by stacking so much, you lose a lot of your r.attack/WS damage sources. The comparison is going to be fuzzy, so I just use Namas.
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By Carbuncle.Killkenny 2014-05-23 15:09:10
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I'm assuming those delve v2 comparisons are based on 12~ man groups and you are supported by at least 4 songs, 2 rolls and some additional form of defense down other than just dia?

I have only played with SAM in yorcia as its the only zone its worth bringing a sam to for 6 man setups, and in that setting even with a cor shoha wins unless light skillchain doesn't get resisted too bad (in which case I would use Fudo).

Also playing with Apex + Tenzen Bow in Skirmish/Delve v1 etc has given extremely disappointing results.
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2014-05-23 15:25:11
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Zoltar said:
but for those that sometimes tp with bow please share your experiences

There are 0 instances where it would be optimal for shooting TP on SAM.

Carbuncle.Killkenny said: »
I'm assuming those delve v2 comparisons are based on 12~ man groups and you are supported by at least 4 songs, 2 rolls and some additional form of defense down other than just dia?

Even with COR, Shoha consistently outperforms Fudo for me in Delve II, excluding gimmick mobs. I suppose piercing bonus might change this for Namas, but SAM is not included in any optimal setups for Marj. as far as I know( where you'd be better off bringing another RNG)

Carbuncle.Killkenny said: »
I have only played with SAM in yorcia as its the only zone its worth bringing a sam to for 6 man setups

SAM is actually critical in 6man clears for Kamihr:

JP group clearing Kamihr with SAM/MNK/SCH/COR/WHM/BRD in 20 minutes.
YouTube Video Placeholder


So Yoichi does get some use in Delve II, but none of it involves shooting for TP.
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By Carbuncle.Killkenny 2014-05-23 15:30:24
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Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
SAM is actually critical in 6man clears for Kamihr:

JP group clearing Kamihr with SAM/MNK/SCH/COR/WHM/BRD
YouTube Video Placeholder

PLD RNG RNG MNK BRD WHM works just fine in 30-35mins. That video doesn't work for me for some reason but I have done a melee based setup and I'd take the pld/rng method for Kamihr any day of the week.

Edit: Didn't see that you said in 20mins, I'll take a look if I can get the video to work.
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2014-05-23 15:32:04
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Sorry, fixed now.
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By Asura.Gippali 2014-05-23 15:55:05
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Carbuncle.Killkenny said: »
I'm assuming those delve v2 comparisons are based on 12~ man groups and you are supported by at least 4 songs, 2 rolls and some additional form of defense down other than just dia?

I have only played with SAM in yorcia as its the only zone its worth bringing a sam to for 6 man setups, and in that setting even with a cor shoha wins unless light skillchain doesn't get resisted too bad (in which case I would use Fudo).

Yes, all the DelveII comparisons are based off an 18 man group, 6+ songs, 4 rolls, and Dia + light shots. When Keityan/Phaded/other sam are in range mode buffs adjust accordingly.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-05-23 15:59:28
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Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Zoltar said:
but for those that sometimes tp with bow please share your experiences

There are 0 instances where it would be optimal for shooting TP on SAM.

I sure see a lot of SAM's shooting for TP, though.
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By Carbuncle.Killkenny 2014-05-23 16:20:58
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Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Sorry, fixed now.

That video is definitely impressive. I don't know what advantage sch mythic gives over Venabulum/Lehbrailg but I've never seen a sch doing 11k T5 magic bursts on anything.

I'll probably give this a try when we have cause to do Kamihr again, problem will be finding a sch who takes it seriously enough. rdm smn and blm are all lacking when compared everything that sch did.
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2014-05-23 16:47:11
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Those nukes are really strong, they did enter on firesday so obi and stuff.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-05-23 16:53:20
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Leviathan.Draylo said: »
Those nukes are really strong, they did enter on firesday so obi and stuff.

He has firestorm up
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2014-05-23 16:54:17
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Leviathan.Draylo said: »
Those nukes are really strong, they did enter on firesday so obi and stuff.

He has firestorm up

and?
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-05-23 16:56:53
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they entered on iceday, but he's a sch, so he can use weather bonus either way.

edit: lightsday.
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2014-05-23 16:59:45
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They entered on Darksday and it changed to Firesday midway. He can have weather bonus and day bonus, I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-05-23 17:07:58
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I'm saying there's no reason for a sch not to use obi's regardless of game day. It sounded like you were saying he'd use obi's because it happened to be firesday. Also, either youtube must be distorting it or JP client is different, because it looks like it goes from lightsday to firesday.
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2014-05-23 17:10:39
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Nah, I'm just saying his nukes were stronger due to the day as well. There is a little JP symbol next to the day for some reason, so it's hard to see.
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-05-23 19:20:21
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Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
There are 0 instances where it would be optimal for shooting TP on SAM.

It depends on your setup and the strategy that you employ. Maybe there are 0 instances where it would be optimal in your setups, but that doesn't mean that other groups don't use other setups and still win with >15 minutes remaining.
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-05-23 19:37:36
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Carbuncle.Killkenny said: »
I'm assuming those delve v2 comparisons are based on 12~ man groups and you are supported by at least 4 songs, 2 rolls and some additional form of defense down other than just dia?

I have only played with SAM in yorcia as its the only zone its worth bringing a sam to for 6 man setups, and in that setting even with a cor shoha wins unless light skillchain doesn't get resisted too bad (in which case I would use Fudo).

All 12-18 man setups. We are supported with 8 songs and 4 rolls and when I specify "RNG mode", the SAMs are supported with couser's rolls and preludes. We have GEO frailty full time.

We use SAM for all 3 zones and in some cases, we do use RNGmode SAM for specific mobs. Players tend to forget how much more spammy 18 man fights can get and eliminating the prospects of getting dispelled or one shotted entirely (Dead DD's deal no damage) makes it worth it when it rarely happens.
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2014-05-23 19:44:45
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He also had ~50 additional MAB from aftermath.

The real takeaway from all of this is that I want to recruit that scholar.
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By Zoltar 2014-05-24 12:47:23
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Bismarck.Keityan said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
There are 0 instances where it would be optimal for shooting TP on SAM.

It depends on your setup and the strategy that you employ. Maybe there are 0 instances where it would be optimal in your setups, but that doesn't mean that other groups don't use other setups and still win with >15 minutes remaining.

This all day. I have done delve/delve2 zones where leaders told Sam's to run in and sc then run out and pew pew pew. This is the main reason I'm wondering how big a deal racc is with newer content
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By Carbuncle.Killkenny 2014-05-24 15:39:10
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Zoltar said: »
Bismarck.Keityan said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
There are 0 instances where it would be optimal for shooting TP on SAM.

It depends on your setup and the strategy that you employ. Maybe there are 0 instances where it would be optimal in your setups, but that doesn't mean that other groups don't use other setups and still win with >15 minutes remaining.

This all day. I have done delve/delve2 zones where leaders told Sam's to run in and sc then run out and pew pew pew. This is the main reason I'm wondering how big a deal racc is with newer content

Shooting on SAM with Yoichi is a square peg into a round hole. The one zone where you would actually stand back and shoot on certain NMs, Marjami, would benefit more from that person going RNG anyway.
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By Bismarck.Inference 2014-05-24 15:59:59
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For our 18 man setups we don't like having our SAM upfront for a handful of bosses in all three zones, not just Marjami. Its not optimal for DPS obviously, but our 3 RNG supplemented with another 2 SAMs shooting is enough to take everything down timely anyways.
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By cervelo84 2014-08-07 07:20:25
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Kilkenny we do Kamir runs in 20-24 mins at most with Sam+monk- front line

whm brd cor/whm blm backline

Gilgameshlw carbuncle server

PLD rng setup very slow

Namas arrow is only used on the lion. All melee WS for the bosses before that.

Delve v2 kamir is JP favorite zone for plasm. Quicker then Bee. But Mythic is needed. Bard especially. ( if you want 18-22 min clear)

Rolls are Hunter+ chaos
Warlock + Wizards
As corsair I am responsible for keeping Sam Status free and perma hasted. Also Dia + light shot all NM


-tarzan
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By cervelo84 2014-08-18 19:48:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcUlB5f_ELw


Made a vid of one of our runs.
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-08-18 20:07:28
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good group do kamhir under 15 now
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By Chyula 2014-08-18 21:21:47
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Asura.Ccl said: »
good group do kamhir under 15 now

I don't see you doing anything under 15!
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