TRUE 5 HIT BUILD (4+WS)?

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TRUE 5 HIT BUILD (4+WS)?
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-14 13:07:52
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ok I've noticed alot of Samurai's say they have a 5 hit build wearing gear like Phoryc Dirs, Phoryc Salade, and Phasmida Belt, and Simply just dont WS in any STP to make up for this.....

Now from how I calculate my 4 hit + WS I did it 47 STP during TP phase for 4 hits wich is 20.8 TP per hit = 83.2 and then WS in 16 STP for a return of 17 each WS( =100.8) .... With Masamune

The Question.... Is this a true 5 hit build and whats the gain difference between this and a 6 hit build??

(or if I'm at a 4 hit build to some peoples Understanding)whats the gain between this and a 5 hit ??

Anyone have Parse Numbers for a long fight say 3-5 minutes or longer of themselves in a 5 hit VS 6 hit I'd like to discuss this and see the difference.

here is the STP calculator you can google

http://www.heckdesigns.com/demos/ffxi-calculators/stp.php
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-15 15:10:17
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Sooooo No one can answer this for me ?

I have people saying a "5 hit build" is (5 + WS) Wich i always beleived a "5 hit build" was (4 + WS)

Masamune 437 Delay, Capped Merits, 99 SAM, and 47 STP in gear = 20.8 TP a Hit x4 = 83.2 ---- I also Maintain 25.5% haste
and i WS in 16 STP Wich leaves me with 17 TP after WS
(unless Conserve TP procs)

Coming full Circle WS + 4 hits = 100.2 TP for a new WS

Now if this is a 4 hit with Masamune and not a 5 Hit what would be the gain (i have 25.5% haste also)????

I really need a Veteran LIFER SAM to Answer this for me ???
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-05-15 15:11:22
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A perfect 5-hit is the first hit of WS TP-return + 4 hits.
 Bahamut.Greyfawkz
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By Bahamut.Greyfawkz 2013-05-15 15:15:47
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a 5 Hit has always been 4 hits + WS.

5 hits + ws is a 6 hit.. whoever you're talking to is drunk.
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-15 15:18:04
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Thank you
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-15 15:22:06
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Do any of you have to WS in STP to keep a "5 hit Build" like me?

I Found I fall below 17 TP return on WS if i dont WS in atleast 16 STP.....this is if Conserve TP doesn't activate

And does anyone know how often Conserve TP activates With Light Belt masamune and +2 Feet?

(possibly Percentage wise or X/X WSs?)
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-05-15 15:25:44
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Keeping Store TP in your WS build to make sure you reach your X-hit is normal, yes. It's worth noting however that STP in your WS build makes a lower impact than STP in your TP gear. The STP is factored for every melee strike you make, where in WS it only factors once. That means that you may need to keep a good chunk of STP in your WS gear to complete your X-hit, but a few points of STP in your melee gear goes farther towards completion.
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-15 15:26:28
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Thank You
 Bahamut.Bekisa
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By Bahamut.Bekisa 2013-05-15 15:30:21
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If you want to find out what is better (4+ws, 5+ws, 6+ws), you need to find out if you loose too much melee damage (DPS) by dropping other gear for STP to use your weapon skills faster.

Just find a DPS spreadsheet, set it to the highest mob (I think it's still Ig-Alima currently) and remove any atma, atmacite and temp item buffs. That should give you a good idea what it's like to fight these new NM's though I know it's not perfect. You want better average DPS over long fights vs. the 1-2% chance to occasionally spike a high number to rub one out over on a screenshot.


DPS calcs can be found here: https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B0A0wGYYRRdaZjdlNTdkNTEtMDMyYy00OTVmLWI4N2ItNDMwMDI1N2VkYWZk/edit?pli=1&hl=en


edit -- he's updated newer content on the spreadsheets! Delve mobs there now too.
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-15 15:31:11
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OK so if Loose 10 STR and 1-2% haste in WS Gear to Maintain the STP for a true 5 Hit Build. you think the gain from a true 5 hit build would still be signifigant? With Masamune?
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-05-15 15:34:53
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Your question has too many variables Kingding. You'd need to be much more specific, and SAM is not my expertise.

Haste gear is useless in a WS set.
 Asura.Ina
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By Asura.Ina 2013-05-15 15:36:44
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Odin.Kingdinguhling said: »
OK so if Loose 10 STR and 1-2% haste in WS Gear to Maintain the STP for a true 5 Hit Build. you think the gain from a true 5 hit build would still be signifigant? With Masamune?
You are using different sets for TP phase and weapon skills correct? I only ask because you mention haste.
 Sylph.Knala
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By Sylph.Knala 2013-05-15 15:37:16
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Odin.Kingdinguhling said: »
OK so if Loose 10 STR and 1-2% haste in WS Gear to Maintain the STP for a true 5 Hit Build. you think the gain from a true 5 hit build would still be signifigant? With Masamune?

Like previously stated you should consult the Damage spread sheet, generally for ws's you want to stack up on str as much as possible while still maintaining enough STP to achieve your desired hit build, with some of the newer content acc and attack might be a factor to consider as well... been out of the game for a while so yeah...

Also you can post your sets by constructing them on your profile and post them in this thread if you really want help mathing some things out...
 Bahamut.Greyfawkz
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By Bahamut.Greyfawkz 2013-05-15 15:45:32
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Maybe post your Tp/Ws Sets and someone can help you out.

Edit Didn't see Knala beat me D:

To post item sets;

[Itemset]saiditem#[/itemset ]
 Ragnarok.Kongming
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By Ragnarok.Kongming 2013-05-15 16:17:19
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"True" x-hit build used to mean that the phase set alone would get 100 TP in x hits. This was in contrast to pseudo x-hit builds that required the WS hit to reach 100, otherwise they would fall short (eg: 16.5 tp/hit phase is technically a 7 hit build, but if your WS returns 17 or more you could call it a 6 hit so long as you don't miss your WS). Granted this was all a very long time ago; what is "true" anything these days is probably up to you to determine.
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-15 16:31:50
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Honestly im really new to FFXIAH posting and don't know how to add my gear items and weapons(didn't really get into it untill lately although I've played for about 8 years). also dont really know how to post my TP Set to be viewed or WS set.
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-15 16:44:09
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Yea haste Set im at 25.5% 47 STP

WS set +91 STR 16 STP


But yea u prolly are right there are far to many variables to the Question.

I guess I was just wondering if anyone had done the testing and had some basic average numbers for 4 hit 5 hit 6 hit builds
 Fenrir.Motenten
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By Fenrir.Motenten 2013-05-15 17:02:26
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Clarification on the definition -- 'true' x-hit means you only count the first hit of a weaponskill when totaling up TP, whereas 'pseudo' means you can include any or all of the additional hits on the weaponskill (but not DA/TA/QA procs).

This distinction was largely irrelevant for great katana weaponskills before Shoha, but did crop up in one area for sam: polearms, using Penta Thrust. With Gekko, you either land the hit or you don't, so you're either starting from 0 TP or from the TP of the main Gekko hit. With Penta you might get an extra 2, 3, 4 or more TP out of the weaponskill from the additional hits, lowering the difficulty of meeting an x-hit based on the (then) limited options of where you can apply Store TP vs acc or other stats.

Part of the reason for the distinction was that the first hit of the weaponskill gets a significant accuracy boost, whereas the remaining hits don't. That means you can be fairly confident of the first hit landing, but as you add TP from secondary hits, the confidence of getting that much TP from the weaponskill on a consistent basis drops sharply (partly from accuracy, partly from simple statistical probability).

Thus, the 'pseudo' x-hits, which depended on a certain number of additional hits landing, but were somewhat more risky than 'true' x-hits.
 Ragnarok.Azryel
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By Ragnarok.Azryel 2013-05-15 17:12:50
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5-hit build TP/WS sets:

TP
ItemSet 270471

WS
ItemSet 270445

Unless one of the hits whiffs on Shoha this is a true 5-hit.

Also 5-hit with Kaiten aftermath (for that set I swap out waist and neck for elemental belt/gorget and occasionally Ogier's breeches).
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [85 days between previous and next post]
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By zufafa 2013-08-08 07:53:29
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Ragnarok.Azryel said: »
5-hit build TP/WS sets:

TP
ItemSet 270471

WS
ItemSet 270445

Unless one of the hits whiffs on Shoha this is a true 5-hit.

Also 5-hit with Kaiten aftermath (for that set I swap out waist and neck for elemental belt/gorget and occasionally Ogier's breeches).

Nice but love how ur showing a true 5 when ur not even gonna be able to ws with that same grouping >.>..... Check ur Grips then redo ur post plz.
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-08-08 08:04:59
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He has skinny fingers so he double wraps the handle.
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 Lakshmi.Watusa
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By Lakshmi.Watusa 2013-08-12 03:36:05
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zufafa said: »
Ragnarok.Azryel said: »
5-hit build TP/WS sets:

TP
ItemSet 270471

WS
ItemSet 270445

Unless one of the hits whiffs on Shoha this is a true 5-hit.

Also 5-hit with Kaiten aftermath (for that set I swap out waist and neck for elemental belt/gorget and occasionally Ogier's breeches).

Nice but love how ur showing a true 5 when ur not even gonna be able to ws with that same grouping >.>..... Check ur Grips then redo ur post plz.

That's a 3 month old post, he's probably edited those sets since then and it's showing up now.
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necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [204 days between previous and next post]
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By cervelo84 2014-03-04 08:38:08
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I was told Sam can do a 4 hit ?

How much STP do I need in gear to to do a 4 hit?

Think I get 21 tp atm with 48 ?
 Bahamut.Greyfawkz
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By Bahamut.Greyfawkz 2014-03-04 09:01:02
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http://www.heckdesigns.com/demos/ffxi-calculators/stp.php
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-03-04 09:02:51
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3 hit zanshin onry!
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By Sieha1 2014-03-04 09:42:03
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usually 4 hit isnt worth it since you would likely have to give up multi hit. However in Adoulin with top gear it is easy but this requires reforged armor and Tsurumaru. Even then your more likely to get 5 hit with over tp which isnt a bad thing.
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-03-04 15:09:22
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This calculator is deceptive because it doesn't take account WS TP so it is generally a bad resource to give to players new to SAM.

This is what you will need to aim for:

Bismarck.Keityan said:
Store TP needed in TP set with 16 STP during WS:

Unbuffed:
Ionis Zones
Anahera Blade (4 hit): 52
Tsurumaru (4 hit): 49
Kogarasumaru (or generic 450 G.katana) (5 hit): 40
Amanomurakumo/Masamune 437 (5 hit): 46

Non Ionis Zones:
Tsurumaru (5 hit): 24

Generally, you'll only be able to reach a 4 hit with Anahera Blade or Tsurumaru without buffs. Here are some 52 TP gear sets:

My gear set #3 (52STP) paired with my default WS set(STP16)is a good place to start off of:
ItemSet 319810ItemSet 310287

Hopefully, the guide will be updated soon so you'll have a resource to see what other gear swaps you can make to meet your needs. DM Earrings aren't exactly the easiest things to get for most people. If you don't use a bow, an example swap you can make is something like this: Hagneia Stone (+STP3), Bladeborn/Steelflash(+1STP), and Sakonji-Sune-ate+1(+1STP).
 Lakshmi.Xstatic
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By Lakshmi.Xstatic 2014-04-02 08:34:30
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Is there a way to work out return TP from a multi hit ws?
I'm not entirely certain on the sTP process for multihits so i need some verification.
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2014-04-02 10:03:27
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Each subsequent hit after your main hit is 1 TP return.

This 1TP is subject to STP calculations. So if you had 50 STP, you'd multiply 1*1.5= 1.5TP return.
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