Apex Arrow

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Apex Arrow
 Ragnarok.Stiel
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By Ragnarok.Stiel 2011-12-27 10:11:28
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@ kaomii i see,so prolly better ambusher since its a ws set we talking about.Id like to see some tp set and barrage set as well,im stil not much pro,just starting to build a yoichi,but i would like to kno how could be a possible tp set and barrage set,i find usefull in vw in many nms where you just cant stay in aoe range, whitout fana or fool,im considering stuffs like kyudogy +1 Zha 'go barbut,or getting amk acp and asa stuff augmented for this purpose,any advice very welcome ^^
 Fenrir.Kaomii
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By Fenrir.Kaomii 2011-12-28 06:57:13
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I don't really ranged TP much on Samurai, though I have an outdated macro that equips some ranged gear and mostly Strength gear when I shoot. You could do a 4-hit build with Rose, Rajas, Tactical, AF3+2 legs, and Usukane Sune-ate if you'd prefer to shoot for TP and run in to weaponskill. This still frees up the other slots you could put higher amounts of ranged accuracy gear in, if you need it. I use Jaeger Mantle for bolts on War and stuff, but not on Samurai.

Kyudogi +1 has the same or one more ranged accuracy than Twilight Mail, depending on if your Agility after equipping it is odd or even. That said, Kyudogi was a silly body choice even at 75. I do use Zha'Go's Barbut, though. ACP body is currently a quick draw body; MKD hat is currently a Ranger WS piece; and ASA legs are currently PDT legs.
 Ragnarok.Stiel
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By Ragnarok.Stiel 2011-12-28 08:05:01
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Ya but you must admit there are many nm in vw that you just cant stay near it,because example spam amnesia or deathga or doom you cannot blink whit fanatic/fool. example kaggen its alot better done staying at distance,cuz fana doesnt save you,spamming amnesia that last alot,in those cases its cool to just stay far making tp whit arrow,and spam ws ranger type,just alot faster cuz sam higher storetp and meditate ecc ^^
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2011-12-28 08:37:57
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Quote:
example kaggen its alot better done staying at distance,cuz fana doesnt save you,spamming amnesia that last alot,in those cases its cool to just stay far making tp whit arrow,and spam ws ranger type,just alot faster cuz sam higher storetp and meditate ecc ^^

A couple of issues with this. Most VWNMs have way higher evasion than your standard fodder mobs. So if you're going to stand back and spam Apex Arrow on sam/war, you're going to need to adjust your gear for more ranged accuracy and/or eat food that will provide this boost. If you have Yoichi, its stats may be enough to alleviate this portion of the problem.

However, if you do take that approach, realize that the mob is not going to stay in one place with someone spamming high-damage ranged attacks on it and no good way to negate that hate; especially when so many VWNMs have bitchy hate reset moves. So you'll just bring the mob over to you and whatever mages happen to be standing around you. So again, if you have Yoichi, you’d probably be better off using Namas Arrow in this situation anyhow. If you don't have Yoichi, there's probably better solutions out there.

I have Apex Arrow 5/5 and I use it in certain situations as well, but in this particular situation, I don’t think this method is your best bet.

Edit: Additionally, Kaggen's amnesia move is, iirc, larger than the ranged weaponskill limit. So you'll still potentially get hit with it if you try that trick anyhow.
 Cerberus.Taint
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By Cerberus.Taint 2011-12-28 08:46:50
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If you have to stand back, you should be on a different job. The only mobs where that is the case you will have to stack a ton of Racc just to hit them.

For SAM Apex arrow would be used with a multihit weapon (quint,saboro etc) and spamming the WS. Just like a Yoichi SAM. This will do best on lower lvl mobs and during zergs.
 Bahamut.Atoreis
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By Bahamut.Atoreis 2012-01-03 06:18:09
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I would like to ask whats avg Apex on dynamis stuff? (both EP and DC)
 Asura.Vrytreya
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By Asura.Vrytreya 2012-01-03 06:23:16
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Edit: Additionally, Kaggen's amnesia move is, iirc, larger than the ranged weaponskill limit. So you'll still potentially get hit with it if you try that trick anyhow.
I'll have to correct you on this one;

You are safe from Kaggen's AoE amensia if you're standing >15.0 And all ranged WS can be safely executed at least up to 16.7 distance (I forgot how far is the actual limit)
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-01-03 10:16:21
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Quote:
You are safe from Kaggen's AoE amensia if you're standing >15.0 And all ranged WS can be safely executed at least up to 16.7 distance (I forgot how far is the actual limit)

I do, in fact, stand corrected. I figured this one out myself last night as well. Traditionally the range on Sidewinder was 15’ish, but this does not appear to hold static for all weapon skills; additionally, Kagen falls into the "larger mob" category where ranges get a little fuzzy anyhow, so you can hang back far enough to avoid his amnesia spew and still be within range to use ranged weapon skills.

Of course, I still end up getting hit by it trying to keep rolls on everyone whilst on corsair. Bleh.

Anyhow, still don’t advise Apex spamming on VNMs while on samurai for the other reasons given.
 Asura.Hyden
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By Asura.Hyden 2012-01-17 22:47:06
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Been playing with WS gear for Namas and Apex a bit. At the moment I'm using:

Namas Arrow


Apex Arrow


For Namas, I've used in the past/been debating STR earrings, Hachiryu Haidate, Terebellum Mantle.

For Apex, been debating Unkai Kote +2 mainly.

Been difficult to tell which gear performs better lately. Advice? :(
 Ragnarok.Fabiano
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By Ragnarok.Fabiano 2012-01-18 04:55:22
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gear looks good for low level enemys
but with sam and the lack of skill/acc bonus trait can you actualy hit higher level stuff with that setup and still use att food?

i`d say for sam main you should focus more on acc untill you got a good hit rate and then fill the other slots up with str/agi
 Bismarck.Helel
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By Bismarck.Helel 2012-01-18 05:23:58
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Asura.Hyden said: »
Been playing with WS gear for Namas and Apex a bit. At the moment I'm using:

Namas Arrow


Apex Arrow


For Namas, I've used in the past/been debating STR earrings, Hachiryu Haidate, Terebellum Mantle.

For Apex, been debating Unkai Kote +2 mainly.

Been difficult to tell which gear performs better lately. Advice? :(

Why are you "debating" STR earrings? The modifier is exactly the same for AGI and STR, therefore obviously STR will trump AGI. In fact, even if the WS was only 40% AGI (and not STR), STR would STILL win. People don't understand how important STR is to ranged attack damage. Hachiryu haidate will also beat relic pants by a long shot.
 Asura.Hyden
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By Asura.Hyden 2012-01-18 06:31:17
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Yeah, I had been using +3STR earrings and Hachiryu legs since I got Namas. For some reason I got it in my head to try the Relic+2 legs and 4AGI earrings the other night. lol Thus, why I asked for advice ^^

I'd seen a few other SAMs on here using a bit more AGI gear in their Namas set so thought I'd try to clear up my sets a bit.
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By Cerberus.Taint 2012-01-18 09:53:10
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Bismarck.Helel said: »
Asura.Hyden said: »
Been playing with WS gear for Namas and Apex a bit. At the moment I'm using: Namas Arrow Apex Arrow For Namas, I've used in the past/been debating STR earrings, Hachiryu Haidate, Terebellum Mantle. For Apex, been debating Unkai Kote +2 mainly. Been difficult to tell which gear performs better lately. Advice? :(
Why are you "debating" STR earrings? The modifier is exactly the same for AGI and STR, therefore obviously STR will trump AGI. In fact, even if the WS was only 40% AGI (and not STR), STR would STILL win. People don't understand how important STR is to ranged attack damage. Hachiryu haidate will also beat relic pants by a long shot.



Kinda....fSTR2 caps lower then fSTR. pDIF however is boosted to 3.0 which is the main reason why stacking STR makes a big difference.

Anything that SAM would use Apex Spam on they are probably capped on fSTR2 with Twilight gear so stacking Ratt/AGI will be the way to go. You probably want a moonshade earring in there as well.
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 Lakshmi.Jimmothy
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By Lakshmi.Jimmothy 2012-03-23 15:31:35
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What Atmas are you guys using in Abyssea for apex arrow, I was getting much better results from sidewinder with RR SA and Drifter (about 2200-2700) and with Apex on /war I only managed to get about 2k using RR GH and SA, should I swap SA for something else?
 Asura.Vrytreya
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By Asura.Vrytreya 2012-03-24 01:06:45
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Drifter, although relevant, is a rather weak atma.

You better change it to Griffin's Claw. As long as you hold Vulcan's staff.
 Quetzalcoatl.Evilddstroyer
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By Quetzalcoatl.Evilddstroyer 2012-03-24 01:12:13
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apex sux .
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By Lakshmi.Jimmothy 2012-03-24 03:56:44
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Asura.Vrytreya said: »
Drifter, although relevant, is a rather weak atma.

You better change it to Griffin's Claw. As long as you hold Vulcan's staff.

Well I wouldn't be using a vulcan's staff if I was on sam/war spamming apex, I would be using a Quint Spear.

Quetzalcoatl.Evilddstroyer said: »
apex sux .

Agreed, at this point that's pretty much the conclusion i've come up with. unless I can get it to hit for 3k REALLY consistantly on fodder mobs for exp parties, I think I'll just stick to Fudo and Shoha.
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By Asura.Vrytreya 2012-03-24 06:25:02
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You shouldn't expect some high number from Apex. It isn't that great of WS.
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 Lakshmi.Jimmothy
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By Lakshmi.Jimmothy 2012-03-24 13:12:38
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Yeah, I gave up on it finally >.> if I really wanna go that route, I'm better off on /rng spamming sidewinder or refulgent. But that's mostly just for fun.
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By Ericnuke 2012-05-09 11:27:10
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Anyone tried murti bow (the relic ws one) build up charges and do namas arrow-fudo. Womdering of ir would make apex arrow worth it, you would have to /rng to /rng to get the charges. I havent heard anything, so i assume it wouldn't be worth it.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Dova 2012-05-09 11:35:13
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what?
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-05-09 11:41:51
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Ericnuke said: »
Anyone tried murti bow (the relic ws one) build up charges and do namas arrow-fudo. Womdering of ir would make apex arrow worth it, you would have to /rng to /rng to get the charges. I havent heard anything, so i assume it wouldn't be worth it.

I think I understand what you're trying to say and the answer is no. It is not worth doing. Murti Bow requires 13 other weaponskills before you can use Namas, and Namas isn't that strong of a weaponskill.

Apex does not require you to be /rng, but even then, it's still not worthwhile.
 Ragnarok.Chronosphere
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By Ragnarok.Chronosphere 2012-05-09 11:43:01
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How would a 13 charge relic WS make Apex Arrow worth it
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 Shiva.Paulu
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By Shiva.Paulu 2012-05-09 11:53:41
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Not only does it require 13 ws to use one charge, but it requires 13 archery based weaponskills to gain 1 charge. Also, Murti Bow is certainly not worth it. If you want a bow to mess around with I believe this is the best for SAM aside from relic at the moment. nurigomeyumi Shigeto Bow returns!
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By Ericnuke 2012-05-09 21:48:28
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Yea, it was a long shot and really I knew the answer just wanted to be certain, still trying to figure what to do with the last merit ws. I found with my tinkering that most if not all relic ws (faux paux versions) are weak and not worthwhile without the AM and the boost from the relic itself. I suppose I'm gonna be getting the GS, GK, and polearm ws merits.
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 Cerberus.Fthis
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By Cerberus.Fthis 2013-04-26 03:37:28
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Anyone have any opinions on a Koga Samurai keeping AM3 up and spamming this for Hall of Mul? The weapon skill description says "ignores targets defense" which i find interesting for Hall of Mul since those monsters do have high defense, and some particularly are weak to piercing. Thanks for any input.
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By Cerberus.Taint 2013-04-26 08:12:33
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Cerberus.Fthis said: »
Anyone have any opinions on a Koga Samurai keeping AM3 up and spamming this for Hall of Mul? The weapon skill description says "ignores targets defense" which i find interesting for Hall of Mul since those monsters do have high defense, and some particularly are weak to piercing. Thanks for any input.



If you get full time fighters roll it will probably work out about the same as Amano/Yoichi Namas spam but you guys have a ton of Mythics so you might skip Fighters in which case I'd be very interested in the results.
 Cerberus.Fthis
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By Cerberus.Fthis 2013-04-26 19:12:29
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yeah but i always want hunter's roll for my r.acc, lately we've been having 1 PT (relic pt with +40 acc on their weapons) get fighters and chaos while the other pt (mythic PT) do hunters + fighters i think. will have to test it out on the next mul for sure.