SAM/NIN?

On a side note, Third Eye has a static recast and instant cast rate and can absorb multiple attacks in one absorb and can continuously work with Seigan active. Utsusemi will save you from single target magic but neither will save you from AOE magic, however, Third Eye can absorb a handful of AOE based TP moves mobs use without eating multiple shadows.

Analyze what you're going up against and then decide which is more suitable for the situation.

Idk if anyone said this or not yet, but Seigan+Third Eye also anticipates full multi-hit TP moves. In other words, Pecking Flurry won't take away all of your shadows, stuff like Asuran Fists (In PvP or against Maat) will be a guaranteed miss, etc.

That too, I forgot about that.

just, please dont pretend you wont ever need \nin, its a usefull sub for some situations, that's all i gotta say right now.. get it to 37, have it ready.. you _will_ need it

SAM/NIN can be useful for soloing stronger mobs, when utsusemi is down you can use Seigan Third Eye till utsusemi is back up, granted on faster attacking mobs you will want evasion gear stacked on this

Gonna say that sam/dnc is a much much much better option for this.

Definitely.

You have to have a solid evasion set and good parrying skill to make it optimal, but /nin has the issue of "if you get hit" then you're totally screwed. At least /DNC, you have a chance to Desperate Flourish and run the hell away (which often times is a great way of dealing with NMs that use Hundred Fists, Mighty Strikes, Invincible, Blood Weapon, etc.

If you have both subs and you want to test them out, go solo a VT Marid. Solo means solo, too. No RDM to haste you, no Protect or Shell, just you and the mob. I'm not saying it's the ultimate test, but it's a good mob to test on because they are tough enough that you can't simply zerg them down, you need to have some survivability.

It's not that /NIN is fail, is that's /DNC is a lot more self-sufficient. As mentioned a few notes above, there are some times and events where /NIN is a clear best option, so in the end, it's a sub you'll want to have. /WAR, /THF, /NIN are all subs any SAM should have.

/DNC is very powerful too, but not essential. However, most people once they get it fall in love with it.

/RNG is fun and useful, but not necessary. It's unlikely any linkshell would pressure you to get it leveled, but if you do Sea, your LS will probably ask you to bring SAM/RNG to some things.

/RDM again, has some uses, but I've only messed around with it a very little bit on SAM, I use it more on PLD.

/DRG again wouldn't be expected, but it's strong and fun. From 30-50, no other subjob will even come close to outperforming this for pure DD. /WAR probably gets ahead for a while, and a very well geared /DRG at 75 will outperform a /WAR.

/MNK is something that has potential, but I'm not sure where you'd use it. Capped Parrying and capped guard for the /MNK in addition to Seigan/Third Eye could make a SAM/MNK an interesting thing to play around with just to see what it can do. I did a large part of 20-30 with my NPC SAM/MNK while I was in Iraq, and it wasn't bad. Guard does proc even with a blade, so don't let anyone tell you it doesn't.

The people that argue that Sam/Nin is necessary because mobs will definitely look your way blow my mind. For my case it's usually true but there are definitely ways to get around it if I didn't LIKE tanking with Seigan and Third Eye. Using Thief sub is the number one way for a hate hungry Samurai to keep themselves safe. SE even gave us Overwhelm in case we don't have the means to SATA onto a seperate tank. TA. WS. Oh hey look. Now our Ninja/Pld has some extreme hate going on. How is ninja sub better than that? It's definitely a hell of a lot more useful than ninja sub. With that sub you gain nothing offensively. With thief sub, you gain offense and defense.

Does SATA save you from AoE moves? No.
And remember, this isnt about going \nin to everything, specially not parties.. just some events where it can save the party alot of time and mp.

This:


Full on attack spam WSs like no tomorrow and still stay alive. There is no way a well geared sam/war is gonna survive a merito. Unless he/she is greatly holding back. sam/thf in merito? lol.

sam/nin merits
sam/war reg pt
sam/thf HNMs/GODs etc.

If people would let go of the idea of single RDM doing all the Haste, cures, protect, Dia, etc, SAM/WAR can survive (at least with Greater Colibri).

The setup I had was: NIN/WAR, SAM/WAR, SAM/WAR, DNC/NIN, BRD/NIN, RDM/WHM--DNC took on most of the curing work, while I concentrated on Haste and other things. The crazy SAM/WARs took substantial amount of damage, but the DNC was able handle it with a little help from me and the SAMs (Shikikoyo).

Don't recommend SAM/WAR for single healer meripo, though. I do highly recommend DNCs--a competent Dancer is a joy to have around, especially with SAM/WARs in party.

* * *

SAM/WAR x3, DNC, BRD, RDM... I would love to try this in a merit party. >_>b

Quite honestly, you're better off going /DRG if you're having hate issues (this shouldn't be the case unless the rest of your party's DD are horribly gimp and you have aggro every single mob from start to finish).

Like I said, ***is situational, but then again I don't really do pickup meripos so I don't have the problem having gimp pickup DDs in my groups. I swear I would never meripo on SAM during JP prime time if I didn't have a meripo static - they're so nuts on DD going /nin that even their Dragoons have begun doing it /facepalm.