Third Atma And WS Gear Help

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Third atma and WS gear help
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 Caitsith.Ilolatyou
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By Caitsith.Ilolatyou 2010-12-27 10:46:07
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So firstly the atma. I've tried Apocalypse, Dark Depths & Griffon's Claw as a third for RR/VV/?, and to unseasoned eyeballing they all delivered much the same results. So I'm kinda stuck on which I should be using.


Secondly my WS set hasn't really been updated for some time, and I'm sure that by now some of the selections are pretty ***.



Assuming RR/VV/and the 3rd atma of your choice, as well as 5 merit abyssites, which pieces are well past their expiration date and what should I be looking to replace them with?
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-12-27 10:59:31
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You try parsing or try Atma of the Harvester or strongarm?
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By Andylynn 2010-12-27 12:51:02
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same, but with smiting blow, makes 2h weapons into hagun; try it out in ws!
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By Odin.Chazzyphizzle 2010-12-27 12:54:56
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i wouldn't use smiting blow with drakesbane, stick to apocalypse atma
 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2010-12-27 13:30:49
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RR/VV/Apoc if you need the str
or
RR/GH/Apoc if you don't need str, and have a crit-modded WS
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2010-12-27 13:51:45
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Phoenix.Kirana said:
RR/VV/Apoc
I would agree with the above statement. If you do not have apoc i would use smiting blow.
With RR you should be at (or near) dDex and you shouldn't have accuracy issues at all. You could consider swapping in varangian helm, clout boots, heafoc mitts etc (at your discretion assuming you have them). Altogether you are pretty well set already.

Hope i was some help
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By Odin.Chazzyphizzle 2010-12-27 13:57:27
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i wouldnt use smiting blow for any crit ws honestly
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-12-27 14:08:25
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Gear upgrades: Atheling Mantle, Flame Belt, Strigoi Ring, Lancer's Vambrace +1/2, and Varangian Helm.

Atma: Razed Ruin and Voracious Violet are a given. Apocalypse (Auto-RR and Trip.Att+15%) and Scorpion Queen (STP+20 Crit.Rate+10%) are the next top contenders.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2010-12-27 14:55:05
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Odin.Chazzyphizzle said:
i wouldnt use smiting blow for any crit ws honestly

Sorry I've been bouncing back and forth between conversations all day and had alot of Atma on the brain.

I now have re-read your initial post and see that you already have apocalypse. I would stick with that.

In case anyone is lurking this thread with similar interest but does not have apoc:

Atma of the Alpha and Omega is similar with 10% rate (instead of 15) and 50 attack. Harvester (Edit: already pointed out) gives you str and more double attack. Sanguine Scythe will increase crit damage with a side benefit of added hp for restoring breath/smiting(lol).
 Alexander.Odaka
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By Alexander.Odaka 2010-12-27 14:56:24
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tiny derail for my question

how do you get a 3rd atma other than the first mega boss one and the bought one

apologies :D
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2010-12-27 14:57:25
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beat 7 bosses
 Cerberus.Vraelia
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By Cerberus.Vraelia 2010-12-27 16:23:03
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Ragnarok.Ashman said:
beat 7 bosses

That's all you need to do to get the Third Lunar? Seems easy enough....I think. lol
 
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 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-12-27 17:03:23
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Twilight Mail vs. Zahak's Mail is a toss-up.

STR+5 VS Crit.Rate+3% (enhanced by Lancer's Cuissots +2 Crit.Damage+10% and Razed Ruins Crit.Damage+30%)
 Lakshmi.Vitali
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By Lakshmi.Vitali 2010-12-28 11:38:23
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Caitsith.Linear said:
Twilight Mail vs. Zahak's Mail is a toss-up. STR+5 VS Crit.Rate+3% (enhanced by Lancer's Cuissots +2 Crit.Damage+10% and Razed Ruins Crit.Damage+30%)

Sitational really. If you're fighting something that is evasive, you'll want twilight, if not, zahaks probably better due to crit rate.

As for atma, RR/VV/GH no question. With RR and GH, my crit rate was parsed at ~70%.

As for your gear, twilight helm if you have access to it (no negatives unlike Varangian Helm. Get a light or flame belt. I like the aesir ear pendant for the cosnerve tp over the kemas. Also atheling mantle for sure.

You don't list your weapon, but Vougier's Contus is really nice. Conserve TP, high base damage, attack +10, and enhances DA on jumps (which from my observations is a boost in damage on them).

Here's my current setup for drakes:

 Caitsith.Ilolatyou
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By Caitsith.Ilolatyou 2010-12-28 12:04:41
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How hard is Empousa? Minimal group, basic plan etc. Also anything on Fleshflayer Killakriq for flame belt would be great as well.


Edit: 2 extra questions.

Dark Depths or Gnarled Horn?

And which TP set is better, the one in the post below or this one?
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-12-28 13:06:24
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Accuracy is really a non issue for Dragoon (and most other melee) once Razed Ruin is obtained. So, Varangian and Zahak's are superior like 95% of the time.

And I disagree with Gnarled Horn. Scorpion Queen is only 10% less Crit.Rate, but also gives you much easier access a 5-hit, which absolutely trashes Gnarled Horn.

EDIT: here's my ideal TP/WS sets.

TP



WS
 Lakshmi.Vitali
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By Lakshmi.Vitali 2010-12-28 14:16:27
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Caitsith.Linear said:
Accuracy is really a non issue for Dragoon (and most other melee) once Razed Ruin is obtained. So, Varangian and Zahak's are superior like 95% of the time. And I disagree with Gnarled Horn. Scorpion Queen is only 10% less Crit.Rate, but also gives you much easier access a 5-hit, which absolutely trashes Gnarled Horn. EDIT: here's my ideal TP/WS sets. TP WS

Acc is still an issue, unless you're talking about trash xp mobs. High end NM/HNM can still be evasive.

Why would you tp in a str earring, out of curiosity? By finishing the WoTG missions you can get an earring with 4 acc and 1 tic regain (don't know how to do the math to see what that equates to in Store TP, but it has to be better than tping in a STR earring)

Love torque is clearly better than that lancer's torque (which is nothing more than a healing/restoring breath macro piece).

And you talk of a 5 hit, but you don't have the store tp for it (you need /sam, +30 for your 507 delay polearm) unless the regain from VV makes up for it.

Using a 492 polearm, this could 5-hit with capped haste (need /sam +36, +20 from scorpion queen, +16 from gear).



and to make this even better you could add in the timarli hands if you have them, so that you could use atheling over lancer p.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2010-12-28 14:19:33
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Could always use Ace's Hose over Homam for more attack+ and 1 more haste. And still use an Attack+ Mantle over Lancer's.

Then Upgrade to Timarli Dastanas and TP in a Strigoi Ring or something and still be capped haste.

Edit: This of course would be good if you had no accuracy problems.
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-12-28 15:08:49
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Quote:
Acc is still an issue, unless you're talking about trash xp mobs. High end NM/HNM can still be evasive.
I'm going to have to disagree. Razed Ruin, Accuracy Bonus III and A+ Skill level would ahve you cappign AC on nigh anything. Bloodeye Vileberry is one of the very few exceptions.


Quote:
Why would you tp in a str earring, out of curiosity? By finishing the WoTG missions you can get an earring with 4 acc and 1 tic regain (don't know how to do the math to see what that equates to in Store TP, but it has to be better than tping in a STR earring)
Voracious Violet's Regain is already enough to close any gap.

Quote:
Love torque is clearly better than that lancer's torque (which is nothing more than a healing/restoring breath macro piece).
Again, Accuracy is a non issue. Cruor Buffs + Razed Ruin cap dDex more often than not, and 5 STR > 7 ATT.

Quote:
And you talk of a 5 hit, but you don't have the store tp for it (you need /sam, +30 for your 507 delay polearm) unless the regain from VV makes up for it.
Scorpion Queen Atma has STP+20, Rajas Ring and Brutal add STP+6. VV makes up for the rest handily.

Quote:
Using a 492 polearm, this could 5-hit with capped haste (need /sam +36, +20 from scorpion queen, +16 from gear).



and to make this even better you could add in the timarli hands if you have them, so that you could use atheling over lancer p.
Well, first off, I feel I should point out Corsesca +2 is the OAT Polearm, so it easily trounces yours. Just incase you weren't aware.

Next, for the most part, attack, strength, accuracy and dexterity aren't going to contribute much. So, it comes down to random stats like haste, DA and Crit.

Our builds are essentially 4% DA vs. 3% Crit.Rate and 10% Crit.Damage, weapons ignored. I'm inclined to believe mine is the stronger of the two.
 Lakshmi.Vitali
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By Lakshmi.Vitali 2010-12-28 16:02:42
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Have you actualy fought the hero's high end mobs? Your title history suggests otherwise, but that could be an unfair assumption based on when you get scanned. A fair bit of the t2/3 mobs are evasive.

What kind of ws numbers do you put out? I know for some jobs the OAT weapons are spoken highly of, but I haven't seen any numbers to back that up. I'd be interested in seeing a parse of the weapon.
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-12-28 16:34:12
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I haven't fought Heroes NMs, as I haven't gotten the expansion as of yet. But no one in my LS has mentioned horrible hit rate, either. So I was basing it off my experience with high end Scars NMs at 85.

As for OAT weapon, I don't actually have it. Blobdingnab is a major cockblock and I don't have the funds to pay for people to merc it for me.

However, it's similar to Love Halberd, which despite many beliefs, rivaled Gungnir in terms of overall damage back at 75 and 80 cap. WS damage suffers a bit, but the rate at which you gain TP is absolutely amazing.

I'll see if I can dig up an old Einherjar parse where I came in second to a pimped out NIN against bones with Love Halberd.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-12-28 16:44:52
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Is that jump: DA+ lance any good? I really want it cuz it looks sick... Its got really high base dmg, and everytime i soul jump with a DA proc I get like... 80 TP.. its unreal, so I'm not sure the OaT is really worth it at 90.. thoughts? concerns?
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-12-28 16:49:51
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OAT is actually 94 DMG. 40 of it is from the trial augment, like the OAT.
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-12-28 16:56:14
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oh you're talkin high dmg OaT..thats a lil different I suppose..right you mentioned the blob.. my bad lol.. but is it still worth it? I'd have to see a parse of the higher end mobs I guess..could still be good.. my lance atm isn't the best, but its nice for what its worth.. I used the magnus lance atm til I get something different. but the stone procs with RR atma are sick when they proc on crits (which is surprisingly often)


edit: but really..with atma of the apoc you get a 15% trip att rate on any weapon, which will help with WS dmg as well.. and with VV you get 10% DA.. so any weapon then becomes OaT... right?
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-28 17:17:30
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VV is 5% DA. Apocalypse may have changed the weapon hierarchy slightly for the time being, but OAT would still be very strong. To be honest I'm not even sure how good Apocalypse is for DRG since you'd constantly overTP with a 5-hit build, nevermind an OAT DRG.
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-12-28 17:20:42
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my bad, i thought VV was 10 not 5... sorry mate.. but still my point is still valid with apoc atma and VV combined no?
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-28 17:30:34
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Not sure really, I'll have to play around with Scorpion Queen vs Apocalypse later tonight with a couple different polearms. If Scorpion Queen enables you to drop a hit to WS then it's definitely better, otherwise we'll see.
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-12-28 18:16:15
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well didn't you just say you're over TPing anyways? so how would 20 STP beat 15% trips? if its all over kill anyways? since the trips can proc on WS
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-28 18:22:22
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Ifrit.Eikechi said:
well didn't you just say you're over TPing anyways? so how would 20 STP beat 15% trips? if its all over kill anyways? since the trips can proc on WS
Not what I meant. Assuming you're playing aggressively, you have the following scenarios:

1) No DA/TA proc. You hit 100 TP and promptly WS, wasting no hits.
2) DA procs. If it procs on the hit that would have gotten you to 100 TP anyway, the additional hit does not contribute to WS frequency. Thus, some of its potential impact on your DPS is wasted.
3) TA procs. Same deal as DA, but it can also proc one hit early and still cause over-TP. It is "lossier" than DA in this respect.

Store TP doesn't influence the number of hits/round, so as long as you're playing aggressively then you'll get most of the benefit out of it (barring rounds where DA/TA causes you to overTP rather than just not paying attention). Conservative or lazy playstyles will get more benefit (relatively) out of Apocalypse and less out of Scorpion Queen because Store TP isn't doing much if you're constantly WSing at 120+ TP.
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