Sengikori

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Sengikori
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 Bismarck.Elanabelle
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2010-07-29 08:38:48
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I've been looking all over the web and found an endless amount of conflicting information about Sengikori.

Is the proper usage of Sengikori:

Sekkanoki >> Sengikori >> WeaponSkill #1 (Gekko) >> Weaponskill #2 (Kasha),

or

Sekkanoki >> WeaponSkill #1 (Gekko) >> Sengikori >> WeaponSkill #2 (Kasha)?

I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I'm hoping someone in these forums can give us some clear confirmation.
Thanks!
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-07-29 08:44:06
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Depends on if you want SC damage boost or MB damage boost.
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 Cerberus.Finalvegeta
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By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2010-07-29 08:57:42
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Bismarck.Dracondria said:
Depends on if you want SC damage boost or MB damage boost.

That doesn't make any sense.
Have to use Sengikori before ur second WS I'm pretty sure.
 Leviathan.Revgrigor
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By Leviathan.Revgrigor 2010-07-29 09:01:26
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If you want to boost SC damage you use it before your first ws, if you want to boost the MB damage you use it before your second ws.
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 Caitsith.Alriath
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By Caitsith.Alriath 2010-07-29 09:02:40
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Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
I've been looking all over the web and found an endless amount of conflicting information about Sengikori.

Is the proper usage of Sengikori:

Sekkanoki >> Sengikori >> WeaponSkill #1 (Gekko) >> Weaponskill #2 (Kasha)

Solo SC/MB setup for damage.

or

Sekkanoki >> WeaponSkill #1 (Yukikaze) >> Sengikori >> WeaponSkill #2 (Gekko)

Party situation where you're giving someone else the SC bonus for more damage.
 Sylph.Deltino
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By Sylph.Deltino 2010-07-29 09:07:49
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but what happens if your doing 3 ws light and you use it on the second ws like this:

Yukikaze>> Sengikori>> Gekko >> Kasha


Will you recieve both SC and MB bonus dmg?
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By Archangelgab 2010-07-29 11:13:28
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sengikori wears off when performing a ws just like sekka,

in the chat log u will see :

PLAYER uses sekkanoki, PLAYER readies tachi gekko, sekkanoki effect wears off, DMG from gekko, then the other ws.

so its safe to say if doing 3 ws light, Yuki > Gekko > Kasha

where Gekko ( Fragmentation ) recieves the MB dmg bonus, not Kasha

 Bismarck.Elanabelle
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2010-08-12 12:30:58
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Bump.

I still am curious if there's been any definitive, or more definitive, information about using Sengikori.

I feel like the replies so far to this thread are inconclusive, and the current wikia entry for Sengikori really doesn't provide any additional details or insight yet.
 Diabolos.Artfuldodger
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By Diabolos.Artfuldodger 2010-08-12 13:18:30
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Just do some samplings of Sekkanoki/Sengikori > Rana > Gekko. If you get a darkness skillchain over 1.08x the Gekko's dmg (don't forget we get a 8% SC dmg bonus trait at 78), it's safe to say the SC bonus works when applied before the first WS. I'm pretty sure you can still get resisted SC dmg, but the wiki says Sengikori cuts down the resist rate.

For more conclusive evidence of the MB bonus, just ask a mage friend to tag along and MB while you Sekka > Rana > Sengikori > Gekko, versus regular MB's and have them note the differences in nukes.

I can't say that I've tested the MB bonus, but I can attest to the Sekka/Sengi > Rana > Gekko process giving me more than 1.08x dmg darkness skillchains...
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 Quetzalcoatl.Kyrial
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kyrial 2010-08-12 13:19:04
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The description specifically says "Grants a bonus to skillchains and magic bursts initiated by your next weapon skill." How in the hell would it make ANY sense for it to work on anything but skillchains caused by your last WS. Using the OP's examples, the proper usage would be:

Sekkanoki >> WeaponSkill #1 (Gekko) >> Sengikori >> WeaponSkill #2 (Kasha)

The effect wears off after one WS, just like Sekkanoki. How could people even be thinking otherwise...? That seriously makes no sense at all. WSs after it has worn off are not getting anything from it.

If you did Yuki -> Sengikori -> Gekko -> Kasha, Fragmentation would get the extra accuracy and MB damage, and Light would not. If you wanted Light to get the acc/MB boost, you'd hafta do Yuki -> Gekko -> Sengikori -> Kasha.

To be honest, people thinking it works on WSs after the effect has worn off reminds me of BLUs thinking that TP does anything for their spells when they are not USING the TP on them (i.e. Chain Affinity).

EDIT: After seeing the post above mine, it seems clear some people don't realize what Sengikori even does. It does NOT boost skillchain damage AT ALL. It only increases the skillchain ACCURACY. It's like Elemental Seal: accuracy only, no damage boost. The only difference is Sengikori isn't nearly as much of an accuracy boost as Elemental Seal, lol.
 Diabolos.Artfuldodger
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By Diabolos.Artfuldodger 2010-08-12 13:54:33
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Keep in mind "initiated by your next weapon skill" could simply be referring to the 'resonance' surrounding a mob once the first WS lands. Just like lots of other things in this game, you can't assume the mechanics of the ability make sense given what the description says. If SE can botch the spelling/stats of items released from last update (see Thew Bomblet, Sunbeam Belt, Perle Salade, Succor Ring), I wouldn't put it past them to screw up the mechanics of a JA.

While I agree with you that it goes against what we want the description to say, I'm simply saying my experiences indicate otherwise. Sure I don't have parses to back it up (lolxbawks), but if my memory serves me correctly Revgrigor's got it right. Also, the discussion page seems to indicate ~25% increase to SC dmg, not just accuracy.

EDIT: nvm...
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 Quetzalcoatl.Kyrial
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kyrial 2010-08-12 15:55:00
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Diabolos.Artfuldodger said:
EDIT: nvm...
Nevermind to which part?

At any rate, I've been using Sengikori a lot, and have not once seen an increase in SC damage, even on Too Weaks and Easy Preys, with skillchains of the mob's weak element. Then again, I've always used it before the 2nd WS, not the first. If it really is just a bad description on SE's part, I suppose I should try it before the first WS a few times and see.
 Hades.Eliane
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By Hades.Eliane 2010-08-12 16:12:22
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Quetzalcoatl.Kyrial said:
Diabolos.Artfuldodger said:
EDIT: nvm...
Nevermind to which part?

At any rate, I've been using Sengikori a lot, and have not once seen an increase in SC damage, even on Too Weaks and Easy Preys, with skillchains of the mob's weak element. Then again, I've always used it before the 2nd WS, not the first. If it really is just a bad description on SE's part, I suppose I should try it before the first WS a few times and see.

Use it first to see the increase in skillchain damage.

Using it second grants the magic burst bonus
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 Shiva.Darkmacabre
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By Shiva.Darkmacabre 2010-08-12 16:25:07
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Regardless of what the description says, using Sengikori before the first WS -will- boost SC damage by a noticeable amount.

Sekkanoki >> Sengikori >> Tachi: Rana >> Tachi: Gekko

^ This for a boost in SC damage aaaand:

Sekkanoki >> Tachi: Rana >> Sengikori >> Tachi: Gekko

for a boost in MB damage.
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 Bismarck.Elanabelle
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2010-08-12 16:53:09
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See, this is exactly what I referred to in the OP. I continue to see replies to this thread (and others like it elsewhere) where some people believe Sengikori needs to be used before the 1st WS in a 2-step chain, and other people attest that Sengikori needs to be used in-between the 2 WS in a 2-step chain.

The in-game description is much more vague, in my opinion, than what Kyrial states above. "Skillchain initiated by your next WeaponSkill" ...

One could interpret that the first WS in a 2-step chain "initiates" (read as: begins or starts) the skillchain ...

OR

one could interpret that the second WS in a 2-step chain "initiates" (read as: creates or ignites) the skillchain.

I appreciate everyone's feedback and opinions and discussion. But for now, I feel that using Sengikori is still speculation. We need either more information from S-E, or more controlled testing posted, before we can really say with certainty how Sengikori affects damage mechanics during skillchains.
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By Popp1sgirl 2010-08-12 19:45:41
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Quetzalcoatl.Kyrial said:
The description specifically says "Grants a bonus to skillchains and magic bursts initiated by your next weapon skill." How in the hell would it make ANY sense for it to work on anything but skillchains caused by your last WS. Using the OP's examples, the proper usage would be:

Sekkanoki >> WeaponSkill #1 (Gekko) >> Sengikori >> WeaponSkill #2 (Kasha)

The effect wears off after one WS, just like Sekkanoki. How could people even be thinking otherwise...? That seriously makes no sense at all. WSs after it has worn off are not getting anything from it.

If you did Yuki -> Sengikori -> Gekko -> Kasha, Fragmentation would get the extra accuracy and MB damage, and Light would not. If you wanted Light to get the acc/MB boost, you'd hafta do Yuki -> Gekko -> Sengikori -> Kasha.

To be honest, people thinking it works on WSs after the effect has worn off reminds me of BLUs thinking that TP does anything for their spells when they are not USING the TP on them (i.e. Chain Affinity).

EDIT: After seeing the post above mine, it seems clear some people don't realize what Sengikori even does. It does NOT boost skillchain damage AT ALL. It only increases the skillchain ACCURACY. It's like Elemental Seal: accuracy only, no damage boost. The only difference is Sengikori isn't nearly as much of an accuracy boost as Elemental Seal, lol.

I updated the sengikori page.

Grants a bonus to skillchains and magic bursts initiated by your next weapon skill.

Look up the meaning of initiated please. And don't tell other people they are wrong when you havent even been using the ability correctly.

You have to seki, sengki ws > ws to boost your skillchain damge (25) boost btw.

and seki ws > sengi ws > nuke to boost MB, also 25% boost.

It';s a very easy thing to test btw and yes I did test it so if you have any questions feel free to ask me.
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By Popp1sgirl 2010-08-12 19:46:41
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Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
See, this is exactly what I referred to in the OP. I continue to see replies to this thread (and others like it elsewhere) where some people believe Sengikori needs to be used before the 1st WS in a 2-step chain, and other people attest that Sengikori needs to be used in-between the 2 WS in a 2-step chain.

The in-game description is much more vague, in my opinion, than what Kyrial states above. "Skillchain initiated by your next WeaponSkill" ...

One could interpret that the first WS in a 2-step chain "initiates" (read as: begins or starts) the skillchain ...

OR

one could interpret that the second WS in a 2-step chain "initiates" (read as: creates or ignites) the skillchain.

I appreciate everyone's feedback and opinions and discussion. But for now, I feel that using Sengikori is still speculation. We need either more information from S-E, or more controlled testing posted, before we can really say with certainty how Sengikori affects damage mechanics during skillchains.

Almost everyone is saying the same thing except the one person who isnt even using it correctly im on your server so you can send me a tell ingame if you have any further questions.
 Fairy.Spence
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By Fairy.Spence 2010-08-12 19:48:27
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Oh, it's Poppi!
 Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
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By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2010-08-12 19:53:48
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pretty sure......
example.)
sekkanoki tachi:rana -> sengikori -> sneak attack -> tachi:gekko is the way to do it >_>
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By Popp1sgirl 2010-08-12 19:55:27
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Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said:
pretty sure......
example.)
sekkanoki tachi:rana -> sengikori -> sneak attack -> tachi:gekko is the way to do it >_>

Not for skillchain bonus and dont tell me you are pretty sure. I have tested on more than 1 occasion how it works.

However that would be how to boost the MB damage.
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 Bahamut.Weasel
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By Bahamut.Weasel 2010-08-12 21:56:39
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Throwing in my two cents as well. SAM isn't the main job I play (so I don't exactly play it every day), but since the update I did notice an increase in Fragmentation damage when doing Sengikori Yukikaze Gekko, as opposed to Yukikaze Sengikori Gekko (noticed little difference here).
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By Popp1sgirl 2010-08-12 22:07:01
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Bahamut.Weasel said:
Throwing in my two cents as well. SAM isn't the main job I play (so I don't exactly play it every day), but since the update I did notice an increase in Fragmentation damage when doing Sengikori Yukikaze Gekko, as opposed to Yukikaze Sengikori Gekko (noticed little difference here).

Good for you sam is my main job and i tested it for hours with pen paper and calculate. Congrats to you eying ***up a couple times bro.
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 Ifrit.Vextra
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By Ifrit.Vextra 2010-08-12 22:18:51
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Popp1sgirl said:
Bahamut.Weasel said:
Throwing in my two cents as well. SAM isn't the main job I play (so I don't exactly play it every day), but since the update I did notice an increase in Fragmentation damage when doing Sengikori Yukikaze Gekko, as opposed to Yukikaze Sengikori Gekko (noticed little difference here).

Good for you sam is my main job and i tested it for hours with pen paper and calculate. Congrats to you eying ***up a couple times bro.


 Fenrir.Shindo
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By Fenrir.Shindo 2010-08-12 22:22:16
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So in a perfect world if the description is accurate, using sengi on a light SC would look something like this:

Gekko > Meikyo > Yuki > Sengi > Gekko > Kasha

...and would result in both the MB on Fragmentation (Yuki > Sengi > Gekko since Gekko is initiating the MB) and the Light SC (Sengi > Gekko > Kasha since Gekko is initiating the SC) being affected. Is this correct, or does only the MB receive the effects?
 Ifrit.Arawn
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By Ifrit.Arawn 2010-08-12 22:58:53
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Ok, so if its the Weaponskill that initiates the skillchain, which seems to be the case, then does it only work for the next skillchain that goes off or does it keep working for every skillchain thereafter as long as its a chained set of skillchains? Was reading this and the stray thought that maybe it continues struck me funny. I haven't seen anyone say this isn't a possibility and maybe I'm too lazy to go check that out at the moment....

As an illustration of what I mean. Sengi > Yuki > Gekko (Sengi SC bonus) > Gekko (Bonus wears off or continues?) > Kasha > Rana > Gekko (If it stayed this long hoary sheet.)
 Bismarck.Elanabelle
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2010-08-13 02:22:15
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I'm telling ya, "Initiate" can be interpreted to mean "start" or "begin", in which case I would believe Sengikori would need to be applied before the first WS, or it could be interpreted to mean "create" or "ignite", in which case I would believe Sengikori would need to be applied before the 2nd WS. (keeping things simple and presuming 2-step skillchain here).

Please don't tell me to "look up" the meaning of "initiate" when you won't even admit that the word could have multiple pertinent meanings in the context it's used in for the in-game Ability description.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that you have to use Sengikori before the 1st WS. However, I've yet to see or hear any substantial proof one way or the other. I've seen lots of opinions and speculation.
 Shiva.Darkmacabre
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By Shiva.Darkmacabre 2010-08-13 02:33:44
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Shiva.Darkmacabre said:
Regardless of what the description says, using Sengikori before the first WS -will- boost SC damage by a noticeable amount.

Sekkanoki >> Sengikori >> Tachi: Rana >> Tachi: Gekko

^ This for a boost in SC damage aaaand:

Sekkanoki >> Tachi: Rana >> Sengikori >> Tachi: Gekko

for a boost in MB damage.

^ Why is this thread continuing? Sengikori has been out for a while now. And the way that I already mentioned (along with a few others) is the correct way Sengikori is used.
 Ifrit.Vextra
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By Ifrit.Vextra 2010-08-13 02:35:26
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Shiva.Darkmacabre said:
Shiva.Darkmacabre said:
Regardless of what the description says, using Sengikori before the first WS -will- boost SC damage by a noticeable amount.

Sekkanoki >> Sengikori >> Tachi: Rana >> Tachi: Gekko

^ This for a boost in SC damage aaaand:

Sekkanoki >> Tachi: Rana >> Sengikori >> Tachi: Gekko

for a boost in MB damage.

^ Why is this thread continuing? Sengikori has been out for a while now. And the way that I already mentioned (along with a few others) is the correct way Sengikori is used.

Because some people just don't get it......
 Sylph.Kimble
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By Sylph.Kimble 2010-08-13 02:51:11
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Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
I'm telling ya, "Initiate" can be interpreted to mean "start" or "begin", in which case I would believe Sengikori would need to be applied before the first WS, or it could be interpreted to mean "create" or "ignite", in which case I would believe Sengikori would need to be applied before the 2nd WS. (keeping things simple and presuming 2-step skillchain here).

Please don't tell me to "look up" the meaning of "initiate" when you won't even admit that the word could have multiple pertinent meanings in the context it's used in for the in-game Ability description.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that you have to use Sengikori before the 1st WS. However, I've yet to see or hear any substantial proof one way or the other. I've seen lots of opinions and speculation.

People have done the testing. If you don't believe it, test it your self.
 Ifrit.Zibo
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By Ifrit.Zibo 2010-08-13 03:14:42
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Weaponskilling with Sengikori up makes it so that the next "action" is buffed. If you do Sengi -> Yuki, then the Gekko you follow with will have enhanced SC. If you do Sekkanoki -> Yuki > Sengi > Gekko, the Gekko will plant the buff on the next "action" whether it is a Magic Bursted Nuke, or a Kasha to create light, either the magic burst or the skillchain will be enhanced.

Sengikori only boosts 1 thing, it does not continue like a chain.

Basically if being paired with sekkanoki you should do this:
Enhanced SC Dmg: Sekka -> Sengi -> Rana -> Gekko
Rana plants the bonus, and gekko uses that bonus by creating a skillchain.

Enhanced MB Dmg: Sekka -> Rana -> Sengi -> Gekko -> Nuke
The Sengi-Gekko both creates a SC and plants the sengikori buff. The nuke takes the buff and recieves a boost.

I felt like repeating what a couple competent people have been saying because obviously facts aren't conclusive enough.
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