SAM Get Archery Upgrade To A- In Update!!!! Return Of SAM/RNG?

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SAM get Archery upgrade to A- in update!!!! Return of SAM/RNG?
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-01 16:12:13
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Ifrit.Eikechi said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
This is partially because of the setup itself and partially because Namas basically allows you to fulltime Hasso.


how does that help with hasso? to my knowledge the bow WS's added effect is increased racc, while its the gun with -enmity (i think that was the chain of thought you were goin with) but i could be wrong, idk
Namas generates a static value of enmity. So does Coronach, along with the -enmity aftermath, but SAM can't use Anni.
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-06-01 16:12:33
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Siren.Enternius said:
I don't really care, Nightfyre. You keep trying to start arguments over nothing, even though you know I don't care about anything FFXI-related anymore and am just popping in to prove him wrong.

And besides, I'd be surprised if SAM could do more in 3 WSs than a RNG could do in one. I hit 4623 on a Greater Colibri in normal gear and Minuetx2 with Culverin, that would mean a SAM would have to do 1500 per WS. Considering it's only going to do about 900 or so at 100 TP, we'll go ahead and say a RNG with ONE WS (Not taking into acocunt any Melee, Meditate, or 2hr) will do more than a Yoichi SAM with three WSs.
I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just pointing out flaws in the build. A properly geared KC/Culverin RNG is a beast in merits, but Brutal Earring kinda *** over KC.
All I did was take an old Merc Kris set and delete the Kris and put in a Kclub. Didn't make any changes to the set itself, and either way, it's from before Cuchulain's Mantle was even added.
 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-06-01 16:16:04
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The bow WS has fixed amount of enmity, around the same level as dispel (ie very low enmity per damage).

Beaten
 Ifrit.Eikechi
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-06-01 16:17:29
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Enternius, I'm not tryin to rag on you here, but I'm very curious....if you "Don't care about anything FFXI-related anymore" why would you even pop on the forums? Surely you can like MSN or skype people you miss talkin to, ya? Jumping on the forums themselves, seems that you do care...idk just asking, cuz I am indeed curious
 Leviathan.Dubont
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By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 16:27:23
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Ramuh.Sagittario said:
Leviathan.Dubont said:
Ramuh.Sagittario said:
The same can be said for how many DRKs will you see running around with Apoc? Lets not begin to argue over that, let's instead look at the potential of the jobs in question.
I actually see a LOT more drks running around with Apoc than Sam with relic bows...most sam I see with relic are using relic GK, but again if you are looking at potential, Drk Zerg > Sam with relic bow. If you are looking at actual probability and not just once in a blue moon circumstances, Apoc Drk > Sam with Soboro

Are you just talking out your *** now? How the *** can a DRK Zerg, a 2 hour reliant ability match the potential DoT of a soboro/Namas SAM?
ok find a bunch of Sams with relic bows and have them fight kirin. See how long it takes to take it down. inb4drkzerg? As YOU said, we are looking at the job's potential and Drk zergs can take down mobs faster than relic bow sams (where zerging actually works) BUT like I have said, things are situational. Zerging will not always be the best option, but then neither will Namas spam from a sam.
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 16:29:55
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But DRK Zerg relies on 2 hour foo >_>
 Leviathan.Dubont
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By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 16:31:26
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Ramuh.Sagittario said:
But DRK Zerg relies on 2 hour foo >_>
but it is still the potential of the job. Your setup relies on the relic bow (which is FAR less common than a Drks 2hr lol)
 Phoenix.Airbag
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By Phoenix.Airbag 2010-06-01 16:34:01
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Ramuh.Sagittario said:
Ifrit.Eikechi said:
umm Bahamut's Z not good enough for you? lol

PLease don't compare a 24/480 Scythe that's only available at 75 that would give extremely weak WS with a 40/450 GK available at 50.

PLease dont ever mention drk/dnc in a serious situation ever again
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 16:35:44
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Leviathan.Dubont said:
Ramuh.Sagittario said:
But DRK Zerg relies on 2 hour foo >_>
but it is still the potential of the job. Your setup relies on the relic bow (which is FAR less common than a Drks 2hr lol)

You have caused me to stray so far from my original argument with your biased scenarios I've almost lost track of what your trying to say.

/facepalm.
 Leviathan.Dubont
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By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 16:38:21
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Ramuh.Sagittario said:
Leviathan.Dubont said:
Ramuh.Sagittario said:
But DRK Zerg relies on 2 hour foo >_>
but it is still the potential of the job. Your setup relies on the relic bow (which is FAR less common than a Drks 2hr lol)

You have caused me to stray so far from my original argument with your biased scenarios I've alomst lost track of what your trying to say.

/facepalm.
its not biased lol I'm just saying that if you can have an outrageous scenario that is not going to happen in most cases, then so can I.
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 16:40:46
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your face is outrageous
 Leviathan.Dubont
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By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 16:44:27
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Ramuh.Sagittario said:
your face is outrageous
congratulations, you just lost =)
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-01 16:52:55
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Leviathan.Dubont said:
Ramuh.Sagittario said:
your face is outrageous
congratulations, you just lost the game =)
 Leviathan.Dubont
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By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 16:54:00
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Leviathan.Dubont said:
Ramuh.Sagittario said:
your face is outrageous
congratulations, you just lost the game =)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO /dies.
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 16:54:48
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Leviathan.Dubont said:
Ramuh.Sagittario said:
your face is outrageous
congratulations, you just lost =)

I'm sick of trying to argue my case with you, even with other people backing it up you still won't accept the obvious, so I'm not going to bother fighting a neverending battle with you, I was trying to lighten it up a bit, but if you think you have "won" you really are quite pathetic lol, go have yourself a celebration.
 Leviathan.Dubont
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By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 16:57:01
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Ramuh.Sagittario said:
Leviathan.Dubont said:
Ramuh.Sagittario said:
your face is outrageous
congratulations, you just lost =)

I'm sick of trying to argue my case with you, even with other people backing it up you still won't accept the obvious, so I'm not going to bother fighting a neverending battle with you, I was trying to lighten it up a bit, but if you think you have "won" you really are quite pathetic lol, go have yourself a celebration.
>.> u swapped arguments so much I am not sure which you are referring to. Is it the "no other job has a weapon like Hagun" one or maybe the "No other job has a weapon like soboro" one? OH maybe it was the "Sam/rng with Soboro/relic bow = best job for EVERYTHING" one? Either way, all of your arguments are situational and are by far not the best for every occasion.
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 16:59:43
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Actually, if you read my OP properly, it was none of them =)

 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-06-01 17:01:53
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I think his point was that he's mad because he can't outparse soboro sams.
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 17:03:30
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
I think his point was that he's mad because he can't outparse soboro sams.

Pretty much.

But wait, maybe if I use an M kris and Zerg I'll suddenly outparse them over the course of the next 2 hours downtime till my next Zerg!!!
 Leviathan.Dubont
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By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 17:04:38
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Ramuh.Sagittario said:
Actually, if you read my OP properly, it was none of them =)
I call *** b/c you brought up all 3 of these situations throughout your posts and you pretty much said exactly what I posted lol. I kept saying Soboro/namas isn't always the best and in some situations, drk zerg will be better....you denied it. You said no other job has a weapon like Soboro...I gave you mercurial..you denied it. You said no other job has a weapon like Hagun...I gave you martial gun..you denied it...
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 17:11:29
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Leviathan.Dubont said:
Ramuh.Sagittario said:
Actually, if you read my OP properly, it was none of them =)
I call *** b/c you brought up all 3 of these situations throughout your posts and you pretty much said exactly what I posted lol. I kept saying Soboro/namas isn't always the best and in some situations, drk zerg will be better....you denied it. You said no other job has a weapon like Soboro...I gave you mercurial..you denied it. You said no other job has a weapon like Hagun...I gave you martial gun..you denied it...

OK I'm going to try and make this crystal clear and use simple words for you.

1. Stop puling your "situational" bs, DRK Zerg will be better in most situations over the duration in which it takes place. Soboro/Namas is not a 2 hour available for 30 seconds, do you understand this? You cannot compare a 30 second Zerg to the DD capabilities of a SS/Namas samurai.

2. No other DD job has a weapon like Soboro available at the level you can acquire a Soboro. Don't give me the "DRK has Mkris" bs, Soboro has a 40/450 damage/delay rating and is a Samurai's most proficient weapon. DRK cannot pull up to a Pt with a Mkris and spam dancing edge and hope to match a Soboro SAM...

3. I never said no other job has a weapon like Hagun where did you pull that from?

My original argument is that SAM has a much wider array of items/abilities providing it with more versatility to be the best DD across the board, there are few instances where SAM can be beaten, and arguing that a 30 second zerg is the be all and end all of these situations is not a valid argument.
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-06-01 17:14:00
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Sagi's a noob, he doesn't know that only THF and DNC get Dancing Edge. (Yes, that means the best WS DRK gets with Dagger is Wasp Sting, a LV1 WS.)
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-06-01 17:14:25
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A) Your argument only even deserves to be looked at with Relic bow. Other than that, it holds no water at all

B) Yochi soboro doesn't blow everything else away when it wins if the other DDs don't suck

C) Soboro is not sam's most proficient weapon

D) Cry less
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 17:15:11
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Siren.Enternius said:
Sagi's a noob, he doesn't know that only THF and DNC get Dancing Edge. (Yes, that means the best WS DRK gets with Dagger is Wasp Sting, a LV1 WS.)

Lol screw you Ent >_>

Gust slash it is lol. Point remains it doesn't stand a chance.
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 17:18:05
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Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
A) Your argument only even deserves to be looked at with Relic bow. Other than that, it holds no water at all B) Yochi soboro doesn't blow everything else away when it wins if the other DDs don't suck C) Soboro is not sam's most proficient weapon D) Cry less

A)That's the idea.

B)Again true, but it still wins 9/10.

C)No its not, by weapon proficiency I mean the weapon ratings relative to the job, A, B, C etc.

D)Not until they give DRK M sword >_>

I mean come on, SAM gets soboro, but DRK cannot even use the M sword, the original weapon designed for dark knights...
 Leviathan.Dubont
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By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 17:18:33
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Ramuh.Sagittario said:
Leviathan.Dubont said:
Ramuh.Sagittario said:
Actually, if you read my OP properly, it was none of them =)
I call *** b/c you brought up all 3 of these situations throughout your posts and you pretty much said exactly what I posted lol. I kept saying Soboro/namas isn't always the best and in some situations, drk zerg will be better....you denied it. You said no other job has a weapon like Soboro...I gave you mercurial..you denied it. You said no other job has a weapon like Hagun...I gave you martial gun..you denied it...

OK I'm going to try and make this crystal clear and use simple words for you.

1. Stop puling your "situational" bs, DRK Zerg will be better in most situations over the duration in which it takes place. Soboro/Namas is not a 2 hour available for 30 seconds, do you understand this? You cannot compare a 30 second Zerg to the DD capabilities of a SS/Namas samurai.

2. No other DD job has a weapon like Soboro available at the level you can acquire a Soboro. Don't give me the "DRK has Mkris" bs, Soboro has a 40/450 damage/delay rating and is a Samurai's most proficient weapon. DRK cannot pull up to a Pt with a Mkris and spam dancing edge and hope to match a Soboro SAM...

3. I never said no other job has a weapon like Hagun where did you pull that from?

My original argument is that SAM has a much wider array of items/abilities providing it with more versatility to be the best DD across the board, there are few instances where SAM can be beaten, and arguing that a 30 second zerg is the be all and end all of these situations is not a valid argument.
1) ***is situational. Drk zerg may only be for 30secs but it will be seen a lot more than a sam with namas. So my "situational bs" is not bs, it is fact.
2) There are other weapons like soboro. They may not deal as much dmg, but going from your original post of "there is nothing like it at its level" you are wrong b/c there is.
3)
Ramuh.Sagittario said:
There is nothing, and don't try and tell me there is
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 17:20:01
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You just pulled that quote out of thin air Dubont, where do I mention a Hagun?
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By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 17:22:15
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Ramuh.Sagittario said:
You just pulled that quote out of thin air Dubont, where do I mention a Hagun?
I didn't pull it out of thin air, it was back a few pages ago. I stopped you before you mentioned hagun but then you mentioned it and said something like no other weapon compares to it or something. Half of your posts are bs anyway lol. You are pretty much borderline hypocrite
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 17:23:58
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Leviathan.Dubont said:
2) There are other weapons like soboro. They may not deal as much dmg, but going from your original post of "there is nothing like it at its level" you are wrong b/c there is. 3)
Ramuh.Sagittario said:
There is nothing, and don't try and tell me there is

No there is not... there is no weapon out there that can be used by melee DD such as DRK, DRG, WAR that is available at the level 50 with anything close to the damage/delay rating of a soboro sukehiro!!! And the options they do have leave them with useless WS that would not leave a mark on forest hare.
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-06-01 17:25:29
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The only weapon I can think of that's comparable to Soboro is Ridill, and since they gave it to only jobs that suck with Sword, that's a moot point. That's like Soboro only working for NIN or something.
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