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Health-Care Destruction.
Gilgamesh.Shayala
Serveur: Gilgamesh
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Posts: 1004
By Gilgamesh.Shayala 2009-12-01 17:11:17
Seraph.Bigheadkitty said: lol shay was cliff notes version of greed.
^^
Serveur: Seraph
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By Seraph.Bigheadkitty 2009-12-01 17:14:32
Anyway time to take son to Cub Scouts (man if Hitler would have been in scouting and learned some compassion for others we could have adverted the big WW2). This thread will be 20 pages long by the time I return.
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-12-01 17:16:06
Seraph.Bigheadkitty said: Anyway time to take son to Cub Scouts (man if Hitler would have been in scouting and learned some compassion for others we could have adverted the big WW2). This thread will be 20 pages long by the time I return.
Hitler started in the scouts. Now they're brainwashing your children into hating every other race. Happy camping!
Diabolos.Sovereign
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By Diabolos.Sovereign 2009-12-01 17:19:47
Seraph.Bulleta said: I can get ANY presciption I want filled at Walmart for less than $5. Dont' give me that crap :)
you probably need every single one of them. please stop polluting our message boards with this nonsense. this is what, like the 3rd thread you've made about garbage you have no control over and no impact on?
give up, already.
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-12-01 17:20:52
OTC medication are cheaper and more available than Rx drugs, unless you have HIV or some radical disease. If you have H1N1, you're ***!
Gilgamesh.Areaden
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By Gilgamesh.Areaden 2009-12-01 17:20:56
18 Million out of that 36 Million uninsured have a household income of $50,000 a year. More than half of them have a household income of over $75,000 a year. Isn't that enough money to afford insurance if it was their top priority? Hell, I was making $20,000 a year, and I was buying insurance for $50 a month which was cheaper than my car insurace!
Ok i make good money but i need to insure 6 people. Just health insurance is only 1,000.00 dollars. its 1,113.16 to be exact. My wife and I very fit non smokers no drug no problems ever. But i have to spend 13,500.00 a year? You said you made 20k, thats 1666.66 dollars a month. SO 1113.16 from your 1666.66 leaves you with 553.50 to live on. Is that fair? Thats not including dental and vision and thats not on a super bad *** plan. Its basic coverage almost. if you spent 50 buck a month on your insurance and you make that 1666.66 a month is about 3% of your monthly income. If that were the case for me id love it but thats not it id have to make 38k a month to be 3%. Its a much higher number than that. Soooooo i boo you and your 50 bucks
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By Seraph.Bigheadkitty 2009-12-01 17:27:02
By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-12-01 17:16:06 Link | PM | Quote | Reply Score: 0 312773 [–] [+]
Seraph.Bigheadkitty said:
Anyway time to take son to Cub Scouts (man if Hitler would have been in scouting and learned some compassion for others we could have adverted the big WW2). This thread will be 20 pages long by the time I return.
Hitler started in the scouts. Now they're brainwashing your children into hating every other race. Happy camping!
Omg damn him we meant camping not concentration camping (Ok thats not funny my wifes grandmother had both her legs broke in one) anyway time to go
Cerberus.Arkhana
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By Cerberus.Arkhana 2009-12-01 17:27:18
Actually, this whole argument is based on one point : those who benefit of public money (so far, they have been called scammers, leechs, and apparently they spend their time buying ringtones instead of basic needed things) are those who take bread off the mouth of honnest hardworking generous and tolerant americans. Oh, I got it now !
Bahamut.Weasel
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By Bahamut.Weasel 2009-12-01 17:29:19
I'm an average person in a country with universal health care, and what my government provides is more than enough for me and the majority of people here. For me, I don't have any extensive needs or chronic conditions. If I ever need to take a trip to the ER for something potentially serious I know it's nothing I need to worry about financially. I haven't heard of anyone suffering in my circle of family or friends due to poor service or coverage, and many of them have serious health problems (some with ongoing problems, some had to have emergency surgery, etc., etc., etc.). I'm pretty sure none of them have private insurance either. I'm not saying the world should model their health care after Canada, but criticisms of universal health care as a whole don't hold a lot of water in my opinion. There's too many local factors that go into what could make it work for that particular part of the world. What fails in some countries might not fail in others. What is successful in others might not work in others. If the system failed you in some way, keep in mind every system fails someone in some way, somewhere. It doesn't mean the entire thing doesn't work for everyone.
Cerberus.Arkhana
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By Cerberus.Arkhana 2009-12-01 17:30:46
Areaden, stop being a leech, and work harder.
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-12-01 17:31:04
Cerberus.Arkhana said: Actually, this whole argument is based on one point : those who benefit of public money (so far, they have been called scammers, leechs, and welfare babieswho apparently spend their time buying ringtones instead of basic needed things) are those who take bread out of the mouths of honest,hardworking, generous, and semi-tolerant Americans. Oh, I got it now !
fixed
Do strippers get health care?
Cerberus.Arkhana
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By Cerberus.Arkhana 2009-12-01 17:34:48
I hope not, being all the time naked and catching cold.
Plus, generous and tolerant americans are christian in majority, and i don't think God aggrees.
By Seppoko 2009-12-01 17:46:38
Bahamut.Kaioshin said: I sell life, accident, and health insurance, and my company insures you in most cases if you have cancer ALREADY! the buisness of insurance is changing because of the economic slump america is currently in. I can write most of you a policy for less then 40 dollars a month that will give you full medical, emercency, dental, and vision without even one physical.
If you are serious, we need to have a chat so i can get insured
Part of the booboo here is that America HAS NO HEALTHCARE system. what we have is a progression since the early 1900's that has just been bridged and had band-aids put on it till it works "For now". This does not mean that there needs to be socialized medicine but above anything we need an actual system that has been designed from the floor. So many of our flaws come from loopholes and exploits (some of those are on the consumer end as well)
We all hear horror stories of "Preexisting conditions" and this does happen, quite often but not 100% of the time (like the media wants you to think) I can give a live example of a friend of mine getting *** by this but it isn't necessary. Other issues have to do with legal *** which drive up the cost of medical to unreal figures. However hospitals/doctors charge insane rates because they can simply to exploit the system. Recently went to the ER for holding a 104 temp for 5+ hours and was charged 250 dollars to walk in and got a bill from the doctor that saw me for 200$ when all they did was spend 5 minutes to take my temp asked 3 questions then left and sent a nurse in with my prescription 45 minutes later. Charging near 500$ to have my temp and blood pressure taken, asked 5 questions and spend more time waiting in the lobby only to be sent home to pick up a 30$ prescription that is marginally helpful at best is not just shitty. it's criminal.
Given i started out with a cohesive thought but in all the interruptions and distractions it became a bit of a rant but if i can illustrate one point more than any other. That point would be that we need an actual system to end the exploitation on all ends, Regulate costs and allow people who can't afford solid health care plans, to have some sort of option.
Seraph.Helixx
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By Seraph.Helixx 2009-12-01 17:48:49
lol @ US healthcare system. Trying to implement modern social benefits a hundred years too late.
They didn't do this untill now for a reason, and if they implement it it will be a disaster.
By Seppoko 2009-12-01 17:51:49
Bahamut.Weasel said: I'm an average person in a country with universal health care, and what my government provides is more than enough for me and the majority of people here. For me, I don't have any extensive needs or chronic conditions. If I ever need to take a trip to the ER for something potentially serious I know it's nothing I need to worry about financially. I haven't heard of anyone suffering in my circle of family or friends due to poor service or coverage, and many of them have serious health problems (some with ongoing problems, some had to have emergency surgery, etc., etc., etc.). I'm pretty sure none of them have private insurance either. I'm not saying the world should model their health care after Canada, but criticisms of universal health care as a whole don't hold a lot of water in my opinion. There's too many local factors that go into what could make it work for that particular part of the world. What fails in some countries might not fail in others. What is successful in others might not work in others. If the system failed you in some way, keep in mind every system fails someone in some way, somewhere. It doesn't mean the entire thing doesn't work for everyone.
As you said, Every system has flaws and i have several Canadian friends who have all said the exact same thing as you. I would like a real health care system that is covered by taxes but it isn't going to happen with the route we are taking now because our American Mentality means we want it all and don't want to give up any extra for it. I would happily pay 14% sales tax like in Canada if it meant that i could go to the doctor whenever i feel like it just to make sure i am in ship Shape. Infact i have been considering moving up north to take advantage of that (and numerous other reasons)
Cerberus.Arkhana
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By Cerberus.Arkhana 2009-12-01 17:54:57
Are you saying you are not happy with american legendary tolerance and generosity ? You're such a whining leech :P
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By Fenrir.Empedocles 2009-12-01 18:06:20
What I don't understand is why people seem to think a public system is the death of the private sector.
We have a public system here, yet private doctors still make plenty of money.
Cerberus.Katarzyna
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By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-12-01 18:09:06
I'm not even going to respond to the topic at hand. I'm just going to say this:
You hate the fact this country has gun control, you hate the fact this country has religious freedom. Now you're bitching about healthcare.
I have a solution for you.
GET. THE. ***. OUT.
Cerberus.Arkhana
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By Cerberus.Arkhana 2009-12-01 18:10:40
Brainwashing ?
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-12-01 18:12:42
Cerberus.Katarzyna said: I have a solution for you.
GET. THE. ***. OUT.
The thing is. She is PRO for the current system or small changes of the system not a complete take over/rewrite.
But yeah I agree. If you hate this place so much and want to make it like another place (be it like china, russia, canada, mexico, congo) go there instead of dragging everyone else.
Cerberus.Katarzyna
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By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-12-01 18:14:34
Asura.Ludoggy said: Cerberus.Katarzyna said: I have a solution for you.
GET. THE. ***. OUT.
The thing is. She is PRO for the current system or small changes of the system not a complete take over/rewrite.
But yeah I agree. If you hate this place so much and want to make it like another place (be it like china, russia, canada, mexico, congo) go there instead of dragging everyone else.
Honestly, all I've read..all I've BEEN reading from her is whine whine whine, *** *** ***, moan moan moan. Oh, and Cuba.
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By Sylph.Beelshamen 2009-12-01 18:20:19
You know what's funny?
Europe has a fantastic healthcare. FANTASTIC. And it's all because of the USA. The USA spends so much money, SO MUCH goddamn money on its defense and millitary that basically the WHOLE western world doesn't have to spend any money on it. Because when ***hits the fan everyone else will be satisfied hiding behind the yankee. And since the USA spends all their money on defense...
What does Europe do with all the money that they don't have to pump into the millitary? Yep, you can guess it. Europe creates a decent healthcare system.
[+]
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By Odin.Kalico 2009-12-01 18:34:02
Sylph.Beelshamen said: You know what's funny?
Europe has a fantastic healthcare. FANTASTIC. And it's all because of the USA. The USA spends so much money, SO MUCH goddamn money on its defense and millitary that basically the WHOLE western world doesn't have to spend any money on it. Because when ***hits the fan everyone else will be satisfied hiding behind the yankee. And since the USA spends all their money on defense...
What does Europe do with all the money that they don't have to pump into the millitary? Yep, you can guess it. Europe creates a decent healthcare system.
Why would they when America is Europes
military
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By Asura.Bitesized 2009-12-01 18:36:18
The main issue is this bill being proposed in its current form is absolute ***. Its less of a Healthcare issue and more of a power grab. There is no healthcare crisis right now in this country and there is no need to turn the system upside down. They are creating a crisis among the people, using the media to pass legislation under the premise that if we don't do it right now then were all going to die. Very similar to global warming and the Cap and Trade bill.
There are plenty of ways to improve healthcare that the libs wont even bother to look at. Tort reform, portability, and tax free medical savings accounts are a few that I can think of right off the top of my head. The Dems wont touch tort reform because lawyers are one of their biggest supports and they'd be losing precious re-election money. The other issues they don't even bother to look at because they are so focused on putting in the government "option." I quote option because its simply a foot in the door for a single payer system, which Obama has said multiple times, that he supports.
The "Blue Dog" Democrats ran under the guise of being fiscally conservative democrats, so the Dems could take seats away from Republicans in highly Republican areas. With the idea being, that after the "Blue Dogs" get elected, they would simply force them to go along with their less than fiscally conservative policy's with the threat of the loss of campaign finance money and support in their re-elections if they didn't go along. Lucky there are enough of the "Blue Dog" Democrats around that are actually listening to their constituents to keep this thing from passing right now with the government "option."
I don't feel like going into all the details of this current bill because there is too much of it that I would want to talk about it and its been driving me crazy lately and I don't feel like typing anymore lol. I'll just simply point out one small detail of the bill. If its passed, the reforms wont take place until 2013 so it wont ruin any re-election attempts of the anointed one. It shows me that even they understand the consequences of passing this bill.
BTW- Thanks for the OP lol, too few people actually understand whats going on and just think that it would be "free" health care.
Bismarck.Rinako
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By Bismarck.Rinako 2009-12-01 18:52:03
Phoenix.Amael said: Thought you did brought a good point that Car wrecks and Murders in the USA maybe higher than in Cuba
Have any idea how hard it is to get a drivers license in other countries? Some have to pay close to 3k to get a license, pass both the driving and written test with no less then a 100% PLUS take required driving courses. Most don't even get their license cause it costs so much and it's so hard to pass. In the US you pay like 50 dollars and don't even have to pass the test with a 100%.
Car Wrecks in the US shouldn't even be factored in any of this because in the US people believe they deserve to drive at 16 with passing the test with the bare-minimum. When in reality there should be more regulations cause driving is far from a right.
Of course the US has high car wrecks.
Asura.Chefm
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By Asura.Chefm 2009-12-01 19:02:44
Try next time reading the first 100 out of 2,000!! Pages of the real health care Bill and you'll understand wht the Bill REALY about, Insteed of your democratic Oppions.
People think about for 5 sec , WAS a America founded on "Lets have the Gov. give us everything" or "Lets work for MY stuff" ???? Which one sounds like Democracy, and which one soundes like Socailist.
Cerberus.Katarzyna
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By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-12-01 19:03:05
Odin.Kalico said: Why would they when America is everyone's military
Fixed.
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By Sylph.Beelshamen 2009-12-01 19:03:39
Cerberus.Katarzyna said: Odin.Kalico said: Why would they when America is everyone's military
Fixed.
I thought we went over this once... /sigh
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-12-01 19:05:17
Sylph.Beelshamen said: You know what's funny?
Europe has a fantastic healthcare. FANTASTIC. And it's all because of the USA. The USA spends so much money, SO MUCH goddamn money on its defense and millitary that basically the WHOLE western world doesn't have to spend any money on it. Because when ***hits the fan everyone else will be satisfied hiding behind the yankee. And since the USA spends all their money on defense...
What does Europe do with all the money that they don't have to pump into the millitary? Yep, you can guess it. Europe creates a decent healthcare system.
Do you guys mind sharing some pills then? =o
Cerberus.Katarzyna
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By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-12-01 19:06:10
Sylph.Beelshamen said: Cerberus.Katarzyna said: Odin.Kalico said: Why would they when America is everyone's military
Fixed.
I thought we went over this once... /sigh
What? Just stating a fact. I agree with you that we spend all of our money on defenses and military. I agree with you Europe is lightyears ahead of us in healthcare. Europe's healthcare didn't cause the apocalypse, so I don't see what the issue is.
"Let me be the first to say that i would be thrilled if America's health-care system is anywhere near as functional as the post office"
-Liberal Wack Jobs.
Excuse me...
Postmaster General John Potter told Congress "The USPS is once again facing losses of historic proportion. Our situation is critical."
Let me be honest. The United States Post Office is my favorite example of how government meddling can prevent an organization from reaching full potential.
Since they are unable to execute business strategies, because they are government operated, it has cost the USPS atleast $500 million a year for the last 30+ years. That is all losses, no profit.
The USPS lost $2.8 Billion in 2008, and will lose another $4-5 Billion by the end of 2009. That's right... I said Billion.
So how can the same people who fail at running the Post Office, Medicare, Medicaid, Fannie & Freddie, Amtrak, Citigroup, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc Actually even consider trying to run America's Health-care!?
Why a skent knee may soon be fatal :3
"...$46 Million hardworking Americans are uninsured..."
<.<
I smell Bullshit.
This figure... $46 Million.... is an argument for those advocating more government control of health care. If you know the facts, you can see that they are using an exxagerated, head turning, number as a way to get America to spend tens of billions of dollars on a anew entitlement for people who are NOT entitled to anything.
Bullshit:
46 Million people out of insurance @_@
Fact:
10 Million of those people figured into that number are illegal aliens... Why the hell would they do that? Use your head :3
Fact:
46-10 = 36 Million, which is still a large number, but this is where personal responsibility comes in.
18 Million out of that 36 Million uninsured have a household income of $50,000 a year. More than half of them have a household income of over $75,000 a year. Isn't that enough money to afford insurance if it was their top priority? Hell, I was making $20,000 a year, and I was buying insurance for $50 a month which was cheaper than my car insurace!
Another 14 Million Americans Qualify for government insurance, but they just haven't applied for it.
The real number for the chronically uninsured is actually 3% of the population...
I agree that everyone should have insurance, but these numbers they give you have been massaged and are false.
Let's say tomorow you win the lottery for $100 Million, you quit your job, you let your health insurance lapse for a month, and then you buy the biggest best health insurance policy you can find. How do you think that should be categorized? Well, according to the media, and major advocacy groups you are now one the of "Millions of Uninsured Americans"
""Insurance is toooooo expensive""
Many insurance companies offer basic health insurance plans for around $50 a month. You can do a lot better on price if you're a full time student.
This is part of the idiocy that is the idea of universal health care. When you give free insurance to someone who can afford it, but who instead chooses to spend their money on other things, you are in effect paying for those other things. I refuse to have our gov subsidize anyone's pussycat dolls ringtones.. Although that wouldn't be the worste way the federal gov has spent their money.
Take hurricane katrina for instance...
Private donations surpassed the $1 Billion mark, and most of it went to private aid organizations which provided good relief...
FEMA on the other hand........................
~Handed over $6.3 Billion in taxpayer's money~
~A quarter of that went to scammers~
~They gave cash to inmates @_@~
~Sent checks to people who said they lived in cemeteries or post office boxes~
~They reimbursed people for rent even though they were living in hotels that were already being paid for by... You guessed it FEMA!~
~FEMA reportedly lost over $762,000 in debit cards.~
THIS IS YOUR MONEY! The government can't fail because they are backed up by Trillions of dollars provided by YOU!
What The @_@!
Remember the history books? Back in 1887 when texas farmers were suffering through a catastrophic drought? These days, the funding would not only be authorized, it would probably be done so under an emergency program that gave more money to the farmers than they ever dreamed of. But Not in 1887 under Grover Cleveland~ "the people support the government the government should not support the people."
What the fuck happened? LOL
Oh get this...
Michael Moore: "The United States slipped to number thirty-seven in health care around the world, just slight ahead of Slovenia."
Mikey More brought this up in his movie "Sicko" which was the biggest load of shit I have ever watched in my entire life.
37th??? American's Health care system???
You're right.. That is bullshit!
Seemingly damning evidence of our disatrous health-care system, right?
Right!?
Wrong....!
Moore does tell you America's health care is ranked nunmber 37 in the world, but what he doesn't tell you is where those statistics come from and how they were calculated.
These statistics come from an all time favorite media source: the report card of the best health care systems in the world, by the World Health Organizations/United Nations.
Is the UN a fair arbiter of the policies of the US? You are right.. It isn't...
The U.N admits their stats have been "Hampered with"
Mostly though, they just blindly accepted what governments around the world told them, including the always reliable Castro in Cuba.
The study that ranks America 37th in Health care, is a political how to guide on the best way to run the most U.N-like government. For example, the US gets punished for not having a progressive enough tax system.
What the hell does that have to do with health care!?
The most damaging category to the US overall ranking is our 54th-place finish in the oh so objective category of "Fairness" something they define as "the smallest feasible differences among individuals and groups"
Let me explain the absurdity of this....
~^~*** Let's say you have two patiens (one rich, one poor) who can be cured only by an expensive or experimental treatment. By the U.N standards, a country that lets both patients die is superior to one that manages to save one. That is the "Fairness" they are refering too........***~^~
Michael Moore and others use this study that requires socialism to have a good health care system to prove that socialists have a good health care systems. Does that make sense!?
This is absurd... It is like...
Citing a report done by Burger King on hamburger quality that heavily depends on such objective measures as "Prominence of Flame Broiling." My guess is that McDonald's, Krystal, and Taco Bell wouldn't do so well.....
Michael Moore also says that Cuba's health care system is better than America's health care system because they live longer than Americans.
Sure Cuba's Life expectancy rate is a little higher than America's, but it is a terrible way to judge a health care system...
Why? Because a lot of people due for reasons that can't be controlled by doctors`.
Car wrecks and Murder
We love our cars, and Detroit's Murder rate alone is equal to Venezuela's.
While Cuban's eat to stay alive, American's eat to kill ourselves. Some of Cuba's shortcomings actually improve their health profile.
Since Cuba is a poor poor country, not everyone enjoys cars like us fat lazy rich American's do. SO they get a hell of a lot more exercise. They also have a surfeit of food which keeps them from problems like obesity.
WOW What a glorious endorsement of communism!!! If only America could be so lucky as to have just enough food to survive and no ability to travel easily, maybe we too could be as happy and healthy as Cubans :P
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