Is There A Empryean Weapon That Outshines Others

After killing carabosse and brias solo/duo I realized that it will probably be fairly easy to obtain a emp weapon. I am making a masamune for sure but my question is there a emp weapon that is far supperior to others. I was thinking of nin 1 but I also would like a almace for my blue. I wanted to make a thwashtar but it takes to many KI compared to some others and have not heard anyone say how awesome it was.

I realize im all over the place a common problem when you have too many high lvl jobs lol.

a big swing and a miss lol

GA, h2h, katana inside abyssea, masamune joins the club outside

best damage-dealing one inside of abyssea, masamune's pretty much the best outside, though ukon's not too far behind at all from my understanding, especially if you can five-hit it (requires a regain moonshade earring and whatnot)

verethragna/kannagi are also pretty goddamn amazing inside, but again, ukonvasara's the best there if you're looking for pure damage utility

idk bro

Armageddon!

Really wouldn't be surprised if Ukon was best outside too... SAM was never really THAT much stronger than WAR before both jobs got new JA and gear but I would say WAR has been bumped more the last 6 months than SAM.

I agree on that.Sam has taken a step back. If they are pretty close dammage wise than I will stick to masamune. What would you get between almace or kannagi?

I'd say kannagi. Part of the problem with the better empyrean weapons is you pull tons of hate... so often it's better used by someone tanking or who can tank decently without sacrificing there DD ability.

Blu kinda has a hard time doing that rdm doesn't really tank anymore and niether does pld :(

But I can't use kannagi and I love blu so personally I'd get almace

I'm really not convinced a 5-hit is the way to go for Ukon, especially outside Abyssea. That's just me though.

Anyway, Ukon/Vere/Kannagi inside Abyssea, pick your poison. Outside Abyssea, I'd drop Kannagi from that list and probably add Masamune.

If I had to say which is the biggest improvement to the job, probably Verethragna. Almace would be pretty high on the list too though, CDC is nice.

Good points made and I think kannagi is a good option after reading your points due to the fact I like to solo... I like that almace can be used by my blue and rdm much like thwash for my thf and dnc. Considering how easy it is to make a carabosse pop set I was also looki.g int the cor/rng emp weapon.. I hope this game goes for a few more years

What do you guys think about Gandiva in/out of abyssea? I only have the WoE version and I'm able to out DD pretty much anyone in my shell if I go all out, even the ukon WAR.

I haven't used it much outside abyssea aside from a couple Tinnins; it still did almost double what sidewinder would on highs, but lower lows.

lulzRNG video I made right after I got the bow:

Hvergelmir. Hands down.

You using hax
you is a bad person

For all around usefulness go with Ukon or Vere. Inside Abyssea both are top tier dds, and while Mnk counter tanking will take a hit post Abyssea, new gear and abilities will keep Mnk a top dd. War will still be top two just like it was before Abyssea, but with cooler toys.

Masamune is in the top two outside of Abyssea, but unless you've already finished everything you want for your other jobs, even with outside content from 90-99 you'll probably still be doing Abyssea in the foreseeable future. It has the most long term potential outside of Ukon and Vere though, and is a considerable boost to overall Sam damage regardless if you just plain love the job.

Kannagi and Almace are both nice toys inside Abyssea, with Kannagi being the more powerful of the two, but are on the flip side of the coin from Masamune. From what I've seen they under perform outside of Abyssea compared to the heavy weapons, but are still a nice upgrade for the jobs. CDC is a bigger outside boost to ws damage than Hi is for the respective jobs, mainly because old sword ws sucked so much.

Armageddon is fun, but stronger nms resist the ***out of Wildfire. The ( AGI - EnemyINT ) part of the calculation will hurt even more outside on high level nms without cruor buffs. That said, it's still an improvement in pretty much every way over anything else you would be using on Cor for both TP and WS.

Twastar is probably one of the worst choices. Rundra's already gets out damaged inside of Abyssea by Evisceration, and once you're outside Dnc and Thf damage will go back to pre Abyssea levels of irrelevancy. If you absolutely love those jobs and want a dot upgrade it's fine, but completely lackluster compared to the bonuses of the other weapons. Not an insult to Thf or Dnc, I have 90 Thf myself. Just stating the obvious.

Why have i never seen you post before. I think that is the most randomly bad *** opinion/statement of perception I've ever read on empyrean weapons. Yeah stating the obvious but assuming 90% of people are oblivious and that was a pretty nice non-biased statement.

+1 lol.

Twashtar is decent for thf, but limited in usefulness for dnc. Evis and Dancing edge EASILY beat it's damage when not stacked with SA or TA. However you can easily average 4k-5k Rudra's if you stack it every time. Dnc however can only force crit using Striking flourish and AF3 body, which means you can only effectively use rudra's every 2 minutes.

Rudra's will average at around 1k-1.5k in abys unstacked, whereas evis can easily average 2k-3k unstacked. On an Assassin's charge Berserk Warcry rcb unstacked rudra's I once hit 3.3k, but evis would have done more for sure.

Outside abys, Rudra's will hit 1.5k-2.5k consistently when stacked which is about how much I see Masamune's doing. It is easily better than Kannagi outside of abyssea (because of thief's ability to force crit every 30 seconds, compared to Nin which lacks the massive crit rate of RR outside abys), but I'm not sure how it compares to Ukon.

edit: Something else worth mentioning. at 200%, the 1 minute long aftermath will easily add enough extra damage to your TP phase to warrant using rudra's over evis (assuming you needed to WS unstacked anyways). With Twashtar, the only time you should be using evis is when you have <100% tp AND cannot possibly stack SA/TA.

(accidental double post deleted)

tl;dr Twashtar is a great weapon. Only use Rudra's with SA/TA or 200%+ unstacked

I agree with this concerning Kannagi, but I'd have to disagree where Almace is concerned. The strong DEX mod on Chant du Cygne means you're going to pack in a lot of DEX, which in turn means dDEX will stay high/capped on most mobs even outside Abyssea. Almace will continue to make a solid showing outside Abyssea, though it's obviously not on the same level as Ukon, Vere, or Masa.

Gandiva can produce the single highest physical damage in the game with Jishnu's Radiance, depending on how much you know about either job, Ukonvasara and Gandiva wind up swapping places a lot in terms of "The best", ranger requiring a little more effort than Warrior. Atmas or no, Ranger is also extremely powerful, so that's something to consider as well, not that anything requires that type of power, often making it a liability instead of a commodity.

However, Gandiva is much easier to make than Ukonvasara. The hardest thing about making a Gandiva is having to sub Ninja (Or be a Ninja) To stop Bhukis from Dispelling Cruor. Fistule isn't even worth a mention, as it is easier than pretty much any monster (Including XP Monsters) in Abyssea Scars+. Alfard, for the 90 version, is easy but the pop set is a little shittier to make. But that's an Upgrade instead of a total overhaul, so not sure if you want to factor that in.

I see a lot of Kannagi bash, and I have to agree, even the Humble Caladbolg shits all over Kannagi Outside Abyssea.

I do agree that Rundra's improves when stacked, but realistically you'll only be lowering your overall damage when holding tp to stack it. It was true prior to Abyssea, and is only more relevant now that Thf can easily cap haste. I disagree that stacking a ws is ever ideal, but I'll use the stacked numbers for comparison.


That still has the same problem as inside Abyssea. You're limited to wsing every 30~ seconds due to your timers to do maximum damage. A Sam will require only 4 swings til their next ws, and are not limited by timers. At capped haste with meditate, overwhelm hasso and double attack from the sub, it's overall ws damage will come out well ahead.


I'll leave the Nin stuff to Night.

Ukko's is pretty consistently 2.5kish+ outside of Abyssea, or at least it was on VNMs/Dyna mobs when I've helped out using Maschu. Ukon can 5-hit, cap gear haste + hasso, double attack, retaliate and meditate for ws frequency, while using restraint for added ws damage. It doesn't lose ODD procs to offhand swings, and isn't constrained to timers to reach maximum damage potential. I can't think of a single area where Twastar Thf has an advantage over Ukon War when it comes to overall damage.

I wouldn't hold my TP to stack Rudra's, I would use evis at 100% if SA and TA timers are down. realistically though, I probably get 100% every 20s or so, so only 1/3 WS would be unstacked but this is usually remedied by the downtime between mobs.

Sam obviously would have more overall WS damage, but doesn't thf have greater TP phase DPS? I wouldn't doubt that Masamune is overall higher DPS than Twashtar, but I think it would be a close battle assuming most of THF ws are stacked, and both Sam and Thf are equally buffed.

Actually, I'd argue that THF and 1handed jobs as a whole are on better ground than they have been (unless you are exceeding Haste cap) - THF damage was never bad when it was a 75 game, contrary to popular belief, and now you have another 10% DW, SA hands (AF3+1/2), much better gear (other jobs have too but light armor as a whole has taken a huge leap upwards) and lower enemy levels help the atk/acc differences (pending new content of course).

I actually agree with you entirely on that. I should have specified that modifiers on CDC play a role in it's superiority, I considered ti an aspect of it's superiority over the other sword ws, but didn't really make it clear.

Can you actually get a 5 hit using a good ws set while having capped haste outside of abyssea with masa? You do realize that you will most likely have to tp in a good 85+ store tp total so 50 in gear to accomplish that right?

I was speaking more towards anticipated upcoming content for my post Abyssea comparisons, which hurts acc/atk for 1 handers more than it does 2hnd jobs. Thf was never as lol as people liked to make it out to be (the same can be said for Drg and Drk as well), but it didn't stack up to heavy dd jobs and I don't feel Twastar will help it to do so going forward.

Things have improved for 1 handers without a doubt, but not enough to close the gap.


I typically don't account for downtime between mobs, as it brings in troublesome additional aspects like meditate/sekkanoki adding advantages that are hard to quantify in overly general comparisons. The additional unstacked ws skew results in Sam's favor 33% of the time in terms of overall ws damage though, since the assumption from your previous numbers is damage would only equal when using stacked RS.

Sam shouldn't match Thf dot in TP phase, but the differences in base damage, attack on stronger mobs and the comparative frequency of ODD procs (Thf will have more attack rounds, but every swing of the Sam has an opportunity to proc, while only 50% of a Thf's would be with the Empyrean) keep Sam tp from being an overwhelming disadvantage in total DPS.

I feel like this is getting overly speculative now, I'll try to look at the numbers after work and put it in a useful framework. I'd much rather know the real answer than potentially mislead people reading this for the sake of winning a disagreement, which I feel I may be risking at the moment.

that being said about rudra statements, i need to talk to byrth because i believe rudra has an elemental affinity or something. on certain mobs i have the expected in dmg with rudra but on others where like for example: Jnun (doing mdef kila trials) my DE dmg was around 1.4k and evisceration was less. but everytime rudra crited, the damage was around 3k. rudra aside knowing full well you can only use it every 2+ minutes (if you are saving TP for when the time is almost up you're an idiot, if timer is up and you have steps use rudra, if not then ignore it) twashtar paired with DE outside abyssea does very nice damage, granted the mobs for the most part or EP mobs now but it's not suprising to see DE do dmg comparible to people in abyssea doing the avg 3k ws.

Oh, I don't think THF can keep up with WAR (which is in dire need of a stone-age nerf) or a max gear SAM or DRG, but it's certainly pretty strong. I can't really make any comment on new content because I simply don't know :(

I do feel people underestimate DRG though. 5 hit OaT polearm with capped Haste - outside of Abyssea - is pretty strong! Drakesbane is pretty much Empyrean-tier if slightly below.

solara what are you getting at by constantly bringing up "stacking" if you're a thf and your timer for SA is up, use rudra, if it isnt, then dont. if your a dancer and striking flourish is up, use rudra, if it isnt then dont. WS doesnt always make the weapon but the stats on the weapon itself.

Got bored and whipped this up real quick. Capped haste 5-hit and the bare minimum stp to ws in for 5-hit. Makes a couple sacrifices on the WS, but not too huge.