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Religion is not the root of all evil...
Ramuh.Vinvv
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-10-21 18:48:15
Phoenix.Excelior said: Ok then you've made a choice. I'm glad you're smart enough to make a choice for yourself and I don't think you're stupid. If you're waiting there for somebody else to give you the answers because you can't make a choice for yourself then I'd say you were stupid. I think it's stupid to call someone stupid over not being decided.
That's a lot of data to process weighing the checks and balances of both belief systems, you are stupid if you take the easy route and just believe everything at face value without thinking about it so I do agree with you on that.
But honestly that isn't a reality with agnostics since...they haven't made a decision.
Sometimes it's because they aren't so sure, other times it's because it's just not all that important to them.
I think the though of an afterlife is nice and fancy, but I am pretty short-sighted so deciding not to choose either happened to be the best choice out there.
There are so many truths in the world we live in man, it can take a while to pick the one that fits.
existentialism works for me though.
but I did all brainwork in HS.
Fairy.Spence
Serveur: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23779
By Fairy.Spence 2010-10-21 18:48:26
I think it's totally narcissistic to believe you know how the universe was created. In terms of the universe, you, and the rest of us are insignificant little specs.
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Ramuh.Vinvv
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-10-21 18:50:42
Fairy.Spence said: I think it's totally narcissistic to believe you know how the universe was created. In terms of the universe, you, and the rest of us are insignificant little specs.
I am the center of the universe, you just don't know yet.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-10-21 18:51:05
Fairy.Spence said: I think it's totally narcissistic to believe you know how the universe was created. In terms of the universe, you, and the rest of us are insignificant little specs.
I agree.
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Leviathan.Anbu
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 229
By Leviathan.Anbu 2010-10-21 18:58:23
Funny thing is the whole concept of religion is false...If God is the creator of All then there can be no religion Christian Islam or what ever you think you believe in. By categorizing/Naming your belief is a human trait not a godly trait for God religion is non existent. God loves all man so to have the audacity to categorize how you worship it is sacrilege in itself...
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Ramuh.Vinvv
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-10-21 19:01:46
Leviathan.Anbu said: Funny thing is the whole concept of religion is false...If God is the creator of All then there can be no religion Christian Islam or what ever you think you believe in. By categorizing/Naming your belief is a human trait not a godly trait for God religion is non existent. God loves all man so to have the audacity to categorize how you worship it is sacrilege in itself... what would humans be based on?
god
so therefore it's a godly trait.
Fenrir.Thandar
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 405
By Fenrir.Thandar 2010-10-21 19:17:51
I love Religion threads! They help me be a better, less selfish, and all around a better person!
Keep them coming! :D
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Phoenix.Excelior
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2093
By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-10-21 20:44:54
Well since I got an 11 on the *** holes test I'm willing to admit that maybe I was just being an ***.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-10-21 20:53:03
Phoenix.Excelior said: Ok lets get one thing clear:
There are three types of people:
1. Those who believe in religion
2. Those who do not.
3. Those who are on the fence.
The first and second types YOU WILL NOT PURSUADE TO CHANGE THEIR MIND.
The third type is TOO STUPID TO MAKE UP THEIR MIND.
Conclusion:
You can't change anyone's mind so stfu with religion threads. on the contrary there's a lot of people who "believe" or think they do, that if you enlighten them so to speak they'll realize the ***they follow is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, some people just need the jolt.
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 847
By Siren.Kunimatsu 2010-10-21 21:22:42
I think they should just remove the religion part of this forum section out altogether <.< it would improve the IQ of posters in the forum.
And that isn't me saying religion lowers your IQ, but trying to argue with someone with set beliefs and opinions, you would make more progress with throwing your head at a brick wall repeatedly.
Most of the religious threads are just asking to get trolled.
Bahamut.Aeronis
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-21 22:17:55
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Fairy.Spence
Serveur: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23779
By Fairy.Spence 2010-10-21 22:20:51
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-21 22:28:12
Wait, I'm confused about the movie. So the cops knew that internal affairs were setting them up?
Bahamut.Aeronis
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-21 22:32:41
I think we'd make a cute couple
Fairy.Spence
Serveur: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23779
By Fairy.Spence 2010-10-21 22:34:29
You have a rockin' body!
Bahamut.Aeronis
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-21 22:35:13
Fairy.Spence said: You have a rockin' body! Thanks! I try.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-21 22:51:49
So I finally read the whole OP, no tl;dr :( , and I'm still confused. Like what's the discussion here? Religion is bad, but not the root of all evil?
Maybe we should have Lewis Black decide, lol! "Which is the root of all evil, Religion or Government?"
Bahamut.Aeronis
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-21 23:00:30
Leviathan.Chaosx said: So I finally read the whole OP, no tl;dr :( , and I'm still confused. Like what's the discussion here? Religion is bad, but not the root of all evil? Maybe we should have Lewis Black decide, lol! "Which is the root of all evil, Religion or Government?" Government, while not always fair, is necessary to keep -some- order. Religion on the other hand, can be done without.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-21 23:06:26
Bahamut.Aeronis said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: So I finally read the whole OP, no tl;dr :( , and I'm still confused. Like what's the discussion here? Religion is bad, but not the root of all evil? Maybe we should have Lewis Black decide, lol! "Which is the root of all evil, Religion or Government?" Government, while not always fair, is necessary to keep -some- order. Religion on the other hand, can be done without. Can't religion though be used to keep order?
By Tunafests 2010-10-21 23:07:09
WELL....evolutionarily speaking, religion evolved in man as a method of keeping the community close and connected because man generally lived in large communities. If you treated those around you well, and respected and cared for them because of a common thread connecting you, you would assure that those around you had good lives and went on to have children which meant they were passing on their genes. Basically, it evolved as a mechanism to treat non-related individuals in your community with the same compassion you would treat your relatives.
The thing about it is at this point in time people are starting to realize that we don't actually need religion to do this.
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Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-10-21 23:07:12
Leviathan.Chaosx said: Bahamut.Aeronis said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: So I finally read the whole OP, no tl;dr :( , and I'm still confused. Like what's the discussion here? Religion is bad, but not the root of all evil? Maybe we should have Lewis Black decide, lol! "Which is the root of all evil, Religion or Government?" Government, while not always fair, is necessary to keep -some- order. Religion on the other hand, can be done without. Can't religion though be used to keep order? can, yes. Needed, no.
Leviathan.Hastefeet
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1298
By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-10-21 23:09:31
i dont really believe in god and i dont really like religion (ive had bad past experiences with religious people) and i find these threads rather annoying lol
Bahamut.Aeronis
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-21 23:09:49
Government order actually makes sense though, it's rules created by people who claim they made it, whereas religious order is rules created by people who claim it was some guy in the sky who told them how to do things.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-10-21 23:12:00
Bahamut.Aeronis said: Government order actually makes sense though, it's rules created by people who claim they made it, whereas religious order is rules created by people who claim it was some guy in the sky who told them how to do things. but what better way to control a large amount of stupid people than to say they will be subject to divine punishment if they don't listen, rather than say /wristslap, fine
Bahamut.Aeronis
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1838
By Bahamut.Aeronis 2010-10-21 23:12:59
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Bahamut.Aeronis said: Government order actually makes sense though, it's rules created by people who claim they made it, whereas religious order is rules created by people who claim it was some guy in the sky who told them how to do things. but what better way to control a large amount of stupid people than to say they will be subject to divine punishment if they don't listen, rather than say /wristslap, fine Obviously, that's how Government itself was created, people rebeled against the church.
Edit: That was a little inaccurate, it wasn't created by the rebelion, it just created a country that was outspoken of their non-religion controlled government
Leviathan.Chaosx
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-21 23:13:10
Leviathan.Hastefeet said: i dont really believe in god and i dont really like religion (ive had bad past experiences with religious people) and i find these threads rather annoying lol I only like the crazy threads. This one seems rather tame.
Bahamut.Aeronis said: Government order actually makes sense though, it's rules created by people who claim they made it, whereas religious order is rules created by people who claim it was some guy in the sky who told them how to do things. I'm not talking about making sense. I'm just saying in theory we could do without government and keep religion.
When talking about religion making sense kinda goes out the door.
Phoenix.Darki
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-10-21 23:14:53
why did i bother opening this thread....
Root of all evil?! Religion is obviously not the root of all evil. Such statement is ridiculous and as a matter of fact, close to nothing in this universe is the exclusive root of anything in particular. I’ve often come across this saying in my discussions about what religion does to people, why it bothers many of us who don’t believe any of it and most importantly, how we can accelerate its slow but steady demise (at least in the western world). So we know how diverse religions can be. They can't all possibly have been created with evil intentions. But organized religion makes evil (and quite a few times good too...) very easy to spread and cultivate since it tells people that truth does not need to be backed by concrete, logical facts to be true. It doesn't incite people to put themselves and their beliefs back into question. It's a lot of mostly unprovable statements presented as solid facts (sometimes fallaciously claimed to be proven) since your birthday. You're used to it because it's been artificially made part of your reality.
Doubt, in most successful religions, is considered a mere moment of weakness... when in reality, it has consistently shown to be the very basis of wisdom. Faith allows people who don't know all the answers to think that they do. It is usually not a choice you make, since you get labeled with it from the day you're born. As absurd as it can be when we stop to ponder over it, we’ve generally become accustomed to such words as “Christian child”, “Muslim child”, etc. This labeling allows wars to continue over centuries, simply because atheist babies were unknowingly assigned an opinion about existential bullshit they probably shouldn't have had to care about until 20.
Unless you're lucky enough to be confronted with many conflicting ideas as a teenager, and develop some critical thinking abilities by yourself, chances are you'll just spend the rest of your life, babbling logical fallacies one after another, unable to acknowledge even the most logically demonstrable arguments. You’ll prefer to dismiss facts when they make you uncomfortable. Greek philosophy probably wasn't your favorite subject in college. Aristotle is not your homeboy; Jesus (who says if you don't accept him you'll die and by the way he loves you) is.
Root of all evil? Not really... But it is often used on people as a tool for spreading it. I’m sure you can think of many examples from your own beliefs, whether they be religious beliefs or not, when you have acted irrationally, because of things you had learned but never thought about. Realizing this later, you came to the conclusion that your old point of view (most likely the one you were taught as a child) needed to be adjusted to the modern world you live in. That's called critical thinking. Congratulations if so. See? You can do it too!
You know what... Religion will not die tomorrow, it just doesn't need to die now. Just as much as China doesn't need to become a democracy tomorrow. Keep your religion if it makes you feel good, safe, comforted, but please do yourself a favor and think about how not questioning it can affect your reasoning capabilities. Hopefully, religion will improve rather than regress, and whatever it is called when it does improve, whether it still even is religion or has become raw philosophy, it will definitely be for the better.
Edit:
I'm not that much interested in discussing religion as I have done it a lot and there are other things I like to do too. I did compose this as the ideas came and thought I'd share it with FFXIAH as well (there are some smart people here). I think it reflects that I am able to change my mind and adapt my opinions by listening to people of different backgrounds. If you care to read, please do so. If you care to discuss it, please do so. Please do not hate me for only posting this and abandoning the discussion. I've made it a new thread mostly for visibility. And if that's not okay, please feel free to delete it.
If you genuinely want to discuss of it with me, feel free to PM me, I like interesting and polite debates.
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